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About this blog

A Collection random observations and useful stuff and a link/thread dump of a pubbie.

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Wanderjar

First off, props and a big thank you to my brother in arms, ShakeNBake, for doing the number engineering on this and making me look like I know what I'm talking about. And another thank you to @8_Hussars (again) for proof reading this and double checking my work in case I go full retard.

So, this post is going to talk about Crew Experience and how to manage it to your benefit. What this post is NOT going to talk about is skill builds/selection, the equipment you can put on your tanks, and the %'s you see next to their names in the garage.


***************"Major Qualification Training and Retraining**********************

The Primary Qualification (i.e. Commander, Driver) works separately from the rest of the skills. Changing the tank assignment has no* effect on crew skills. All numbers, except where noted, represent the amount of Crew XP that is lost when retraining for Credits (not the Free) rather than Gold. Retraining for Gold is always 0 XP lost.
One of the few occasionally I'll actually cite the wiki:
http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Crew#Training_and_Retraining_in_the_Major_Qualification

  •  
Quote
  • Tank Academy - At the cost of 200 Gold, the player's selection of the Tank Academy option will cause the new recruit to immediately obtain a 100% Training Level in his Major Qualification, and thereby automatically unlock and make available the further selection of a first Skill or Perk.
  • Regimental School - At the cost of 20,000 credits, the player's selection of the Regimental School option will cause the new crew member to immediately obtain a 75% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Rapid Courses - For free, the player's selection of the Rapid Courses option will cause the new recruit to obtain the default of a 50% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.

Or:
-The Initial Grind, 75% -> 100% Primary = 72543 (73K) Crew XP
-Cross Class Retrain, 80% -> 100% = 63856 (64K) Crew XP
-Same Class Retrain, 90% -> 100% = 39152 (39K) Crew XP
Note: Same Class Retraining for free rather than for Credits (80% rather than 90%) loses you an extra 25K Crew XP. 20K credits or 25k XP.

Retraining for Silver is entirely doable (especially within classes). The losses are extremely small AND(!!!) you can cheat the system a few ways as well.

  • Unlock the new tank, and retrain the crew to that new tank but keep them in the old tank to grind the stock off the crew. (not the best way but it works)
  • Girl crew! / Keep the crew in that tank
  • The Kustom Krew method: Requires a premium tank of that nation and a decent crew from somewhere else. Put the good crew into the Premium, then send (to start with) the Cdr to the barracks and put a new 75% cdr in the premium. With ACT running, the Cdr gets double exp for a long as you keep him in there so you can knock out 1 or 2 skills fairly quickly. Once at the desired level, remove the premium Cdr, put the old one back in and work down the major qual list (gunner then driver then RO then loader) as needed for the new tank. Put original crew back together, and you have a 1 or 2 skill crew trained on the premium ready to be retrained to your new tank of whatever class. Profit
  • Put the crew into a premium tank of that nation, (same class is best but any will do. just takes longer) retrain the crew to the new tank for silver, and then grind the crew to 100% while in the Premium tank.

EX:
If you have a US TD crew (say a 25/2) but don't own a US premium TD (and I don't blame you. I hate the scorp.) but you have a US premium Heavy, say a T34, you can retrain the crew to the new US TD (28 proto) and then grind the primary exp in the T34. You lose out on some of the accelerated benefits for being in the same class/type but not all of it and your crew exp continues to build at half rate in the premium, plus you get to pull in a few creds as well!
http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Crew#Bonuses_and_Penalties and scroll down a bit:

Quote
  • If a crew member is in a vehicle of a different Type as that in which he has his Vehicle Competence, and the vehicle is a premium vehicle, he would also take a 25% Penalty to his current Training Level.
    ...........
  • In a vehicle of a different Type as that in which he has his Vehicle Competence, the crew member would earn 50% less experience per battle if the new vehicle is a premium vehicle.

The thing to remember is that you have to have the new tank unlocked to retrain the crew to it, but you do not need to buy it (unless you really want to)



***************************Skill/Perk Training and Retraining******************************

Skills count from a different pool of XP than Primary Qualifications. This pool can get huge at 3x+ crew levels. On your third skill, getting from 87% to 88% takes almost 22k XP*. Resetting skills for Credits loses a flat 10% off of the total XP (not just that skill, in total) in the crew exp pool. At (3)87%, the total skill exp pool is 1088K XP. A skill reset for credits of your 3 skill crew loses 109K XP. (218 games worth of exp @ 500exp/battle)

Reference points for silver retrain:
-21K crew XP lost from 100% on first skill (42 battles. meh. )
-23K crew XP lost from 36% on second skill (first skill remains at 100%)
-39K crew XP lost from 82% on second skill (equivalent to same class retrain)
-63K crew XP lost from 100% on second skill (126 games worth of exp. poof.)
-64K crew XP lost from 17% on third skill (equivalent to cross class retrain) (128 battles worth btw.)
-70K crew XP lost from 49% on third skill (second skill remains at 100%) (or 140 battles )
-73K crew XP lost from 55% on third skill (equivalent to initial primary grind from 75%)
-147K crew XP lost from 100% on third skill  (294 games worth!)
-164K crew XP lost from 52% on fourth skill (third skill remains at 100%)
-315K crew XP lost from 100% on fourth skill ( 630 games that never happened!! Y U DO DIS!?!?):nmad:

Remember, you lose a crapton of exp per silver retrain. How much is 21k exp? about 42 battles worth. (averaging 500 exp/battle) or an average of 5 hours of playing that tank only. (7 mins a game averaged)
If you notice, that's the LOW number for silver skill retrains. 42 battles is barely tolerable to get back to where you were. After that, the losses are simply staggering. Into the hundreds or maybe thousand(s) of battles.

How much XP is worth 200 gold is a question everyone will have to answer on their own. Personally, I do the first skill resets (I actually train 2 skills, then reset  to what's needed. Except the commander for 6th asap.) and same class retrains for credits. Everything else is gold.

****************************Accelerated Crew Training (ACT)*******************************

Either on a Premium Tank, or a normal tank that you have completely researched (Elited!!!), There is a small check box above the crew members that will allow you to double the exp that 1 crewman gets. It automatically goes to the person with the LOWEST TOTAL EXP, not the lowest Major Qualification or even crew skill. This lucky person gets double the amount of Crew exp than he normally would INCLUDING (and this is cool) any modifiers like personal reserves. ACT does this by taking the exp that the 'tank' gets (its how you unlock modules and the next tank etc) and giving that exp to 1 crewman.

How much crew exp does he normally get?
The amount of Exp it shows you on either the 'detailed results' breakdown, or the "personal achievements" on the after battle screen(s). 

However, Checking the ACT box will prevent you from stockpiling exp on that tank to convert later to free exp with gold (if you like to do that, me not so much.)

Which Brings us to...

*****************************Bonus Math and Personal Reserves*********************************
                                                         (Now with ACT!)
**Warning! Math ahead!**

If you ever played D&D then this makes total sense to you. If you didn't, then welcome to Weird Math 101.

All the Bonuses are Additive, not Multiplicative. <--------- Remember this.
So you would think that with your 2x daily multiplier and a 200% (2x) experience personal reserve and a 200% (2x) crew exp personal reserve running that you would get (2x2x2)= 8x Experience from your first win? 
Lolnope.
You get 4x.
Here's why. The bonuses don't stack. Each one individually sees the base Exp (from the personal results or details screen remember?) and does their own action to it. So the daily double does its thing and the personal reserves do their thing. But they never see each other and the base exp only counts once and then they all get added together.
The short version:
TotalCrewmanXP = [earnedXP*(crewXPMod+(firstWinMod-1))]*[1+Accel]

ok, lets expand it a little:

base exp+ daily double + 2x personal reserve + 2x personal crew exp reserve + 10% clan reserve and accelerate crew training 
(       1      +     (2-1)       +               (2-1)           +                  (2-1)                   +      (base exp x .1) ) = 4.1 x base crew exp

and if you have ACT on you get 4.1 x 2 = 8.2 for that 1 crewman

Or in long hand for the same example:
base exp    +       daily double         +        2x personal reserve         +    2x personal crew exp reserve + 10% clan reserve and accelerate crew training 
(Base exp + (2x base exp - base exp) + (2x base exp - base exp)   +  (2x base exp - base exp)          +   (base exp x .1) ) = 4.1 x base crew exp X 2 (for ACT)

No? ok, the long way then.
So:
500 (base exp) (it counts here!)
500 (base exp) x2 (daily double) = 500 exp. (because the base exp doesnt count here)
500 (base exp) x2 (exp personal reserve ) = 500 exp.  (and it doesnt count here either!)
500 (base exp) x2 (crew exp personal reserve) = 500 exp.    which gives you:
500exp (base exp) + 500exp (from the daily double) + 500exp (from exp personal reserve) + 500 (crew exp personal reserve) = 2000exp because the base exp is only included once. or "4x" instead of the 8x you were expecting.

Clear as mud? yeah I thought so.

To make it easier, subtract 1 from the bonus and add it to the other bonuses to get what you are actually seeing.

So if you run everything possible, you could have a 2x daily double, a 200% crew exp multiplier from personal reserves, a 200% exp multiplier from personal reserves + your Clan popped a clan reserve of +10% more exp. Got all that? Lets break it down:

Base exp +  base exp +  base exp    +    base exp + (base exp x .1)    = 4.1 x base exp. If your base exp is 500 then your crewman gets 2050 exp 
      ^                   ^                 ^                      ^                   ^   
base exp       2x daily     2x Per. Res.    2x Per. Res.   clan reserve

Let's make it a BIT more obvious.
WG is doing a 5x month and is running a 3x crew exp weekend and you pop a 2x personal reserve. you get 8x exp for that 1 fight.

(     1         +     (5-1)       +         (3-1)        +        (2-1)          ) = 8x base crew exp
      ^                  ^                        ^                        ^                 
Base Exp   +  4x base exp + 2x base exp + base exp = 8x or
  500         +       (4x 500)   +    (2x 500)     +      500     = 4000 exp per crewman or 8000 exp for 1 guy and 4000 for the rest with ACT running

Neat! Hope that cleared some of the mud out. If it didn't please ask questions below!


*(Both stars) After retraining the Primary Qualification, the XP that would have been between the 87% and 88% skill mark, some amount less than 22k, gets dropped to the primary qualification. Your third skill will remain at 87% and your primary skill will increase.
ex:
You had 18K (90%) of 22K(100%) and retrained in-class. Your primary qualification would now be 94%; 39K XP lost to the silver retrain, 18K gained in Primary Qualification from the skill reset. Please note that you have to retrain the skills to get the exp in a skill to funnel back into the Major Qualification crew exp pool, even if you have a bunch of exp in a skill slot that you haven't chosen yet.

But, But if you are going to do that, then you might as well gold retrain him to major qual and be done with it instead of silver retraining his major qual then silver retraining his skills to get it to backfill and eating a significant exp penalty that's worse than the major qual exp loss.
Or just throw them in a Premium tank?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------For The Math Phobic------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To say it avoiding math: Primary Qualification is a small pail with some water. Skills are a huge bucket of water. They aren't connected at all, but if you get a cup and scoop some out of the bucket into the pail, it will fill up. The cup is what kind of retrain you are going and how many holes/leaks it has. (lots of holes for Free, a few holes and cracks for Silver and no leaks at all for Gold)

Graphs for the number shy:
Exp required for each skill level:

CrewExperienceGraph.png

or, for the whole thing:
550px-CrewExperienceGraphCumulative.png

TL;DR:
Do yourself a favor and retrain for gold after skill 2. Wait for sales if you must. Play in weekend/weekday warrior tournys if you need some quick small gold.
If gold retrain isn't an option at all for you, Please ask anyone (make a thread, google search the wotlabs forums, status update, post here, anything.) about the way to grind the skill order without retraining (it can suck, esp with perks, but it's doable and more exp effective than silver retrain in the long run)

Wanderjar

Welcome to my Massive Skill breakdown post!
This is just my general opinion on the skills. Some are utter trash obviously, and some are gold, and others are of questionable use.
vBAddict has way more detailed info on a per-tank basis and should be the preferred source. http://www.vbaddict.net/tankstatistics/overall and then click the tank you want and review the crew skills for that tank.

Many thanks to @8_Hussars for reading this and correcting a few things and Links!!

This entire list is Tank-agnostic, which mean's that it's not built for anything specifically. It's just a general review of the crew Skills. The higher up the skill is, the more priority it should have/better it is.

General Crew skills:
All of these require it to be on every crewman to be at 100% and it's averaged out. For a 5 man crew, with 2 people with camo and 3 without it looks like this:
(100+100+0+0+0)/5 = 40% effective camo. (or repairs or FF)

BIA also boosts the effectiveness of all 3 of these skills. Camo and repairs are generally your first skill out of the box, but which one you run greatly depends on the tank and your playstyle. Perk AND requires ALL crewmen to have it at 100% before it's functional. Not compatible with the Female Sisterhood of Steel perk. 

BIA:  always useful, but it's MORE effective if it gets trained as a 2nd or 3rd skill due to the way it works. (+5% to general crew skills (repairs FF camo) and to major qualifications ) (but not to, say Recon or Snapshot)

Repairs: are pretty much a 'must' with meds and heavies, esp tier 8+. Fixes everything faster. tracks, turret rings, gun etc. 

Camo: is a good idea for scouts and most mediums. It's a waste on most heavies, but critical and useful on others! (IE: AMX 50B) Do your research on tanks.gg!

Firefighting: is actually useful if your tank gets set on fire a lot. see This spreadsheet  and Thread on effectiveness. (fire dmg -10%, no extra chance to save modules). Run an AFE if it's that much of an issue and save the skill slot for something else.


Commander:
6th: #1 best skill ever. running a tank without it voluntarily is just seeking to give away health to baddies.
Recon: +2% VR and a good skill. If you can put Sit Aware(3% VR) on your Cdr do that first. Seeing them before they see you = good.
JOAT: Useful skill on tanks that get crew members knocked out a lot. Probably a good 4th skill in general. Doesn't stack with anything, but it's fairly useful for non-Large Med Kit equip setups if you prefer to run food instead. (or your driver likes to die a lot like on Chinese Heavies)
Eagle Eye: There's some use for this skill in personal missions. Esp in high ROF/Auto tanks and super caliber tanks due to the way that module damage is computed. Functions the same way that Designated target does. (your crew has to spot the tank and then your gun has to be pointed at the tank for a few sec to see if anything is damaged)
Mentor: Treat it like a perk and retrain it to 100% and keep it on. Really only useful for 6+ men crews. and then you waste the skill slot. Just let it go....


Gunner:
Snap Shot: Pretty useful for all tanks, even casemates and arty. Reduces bloom by 7.5% on turret rotation/Gun movement. Works great with Vstab!
Deadeye: also fairly useful! extra chance to break stuff is always a good thing! best on auto loaders and high caliber hitters. High ROF tanks and super caliber tanks get some nice benefit from it due to the way that module damage is computed. (it's basically an overmatch rule, similar to the 2x mechanics. some supercalibers can get into 3x turf vs medium tanks.)
Designated target: Great for scouts (just autolock them), Some meds. 390+ base VR is a good candidate for this skill. Works the same way that Eagle Eye works. Heavies, unless you need it for a personal mission skip it.
Armorer: train Repairs before thinking about this skill, then train this. Repairs works for all red modules and tracks, Armorer only works on improving the accuracy of a busted yellow gun. shooting > not shooting


Driver:
Off Road Driving: Best skill a driver can have, improved movement on non-paved surfaces and you can outturn someone with clutch braking. Good for fast tanks.
Clutch braking: 2nd best skill! tiny bit faster deg/sec PIVOT turning (not on the move) than ORD but worse passibility all over. Good for casemates/arty and slow turning tanks (T67 hellcat, grille T95 etc)
Preventative Maint: Great for preventing engine fires (not gas tank fires). Stacks with Auto Fire Ext! Training the crew on FireFighting is a good idea as well if you plan to run Food instead of AFE.
Controlled Impact: Only for teh lulz if you like ram kills (KV5 hate train) and maybe Cromwell blitzing in SH.
Smooth Ride: This skill is hotly debated. If your tank has more than .25-.27 dispersion on Forward movement, it's worth getting early. otherwise, its a joke. get if after ORD and Clutch and BIA and repairs and maybe camo (unless you are one of a few premium tanks that actually get a use out of it and some random normal tanks). Look up your favorite tank at Tanks.gg in the stats or compare tabs.


Loader:
Safe stowage: best loader skill. +25% durability to Ammo racks. (ammo rack HP+25%) Stacks with the wet ammo rack equip. Spreadsheets to look at
Adrenaline: Useful if you are consistently below 10% health. Obviously of limited usefulness, but you can win a reload fight with it.
Intuition: lol no. of very limited usefulness even if you change shell types A LOT. and there are times where it might screw you over.


Radio Operator:
Situational awareness: +3% to VR. the only useful skill the RO has. if you aren't training this, train camo/repairs/bia/firefighting before anything else.
Call for vengence: Useful ONLY if you are in the habit of suiscouting. otherwise its a waste.
Relaying: lol no.
Signal boosting: see Relaying.


When figuring out the skillset you want to have, it's always important to consider the playstyle of the tank and how many available slots you have for crew skills. What are the weaknesses? what are the strengths? how can I improve this tank with my skills? This is the 'tactical' sense of crew skills.
I always consider where I want this crew to stop at on the tech tree (tier 6/8/9/10) and think about what that tank needs as well then build towards that in an efficient 'strategic' sense. Any time the Tech tree forks, I always consider if it's a change in class (light to med, med to heavy) and if I want both branches or just 1 and if I can use a premium tank to develop both sets of crews.

There are some tanks I prioritize immediate surviveability on (repairs/plznoenginefire) and others where mobility and accuracy are the order of the day (Primary combat skills, passive combat skills).
 

TL;DR:
For pretty much everything it starts with Camo/Repairs, BIA, then Vision/accuracy skills. Consider the tank and it's playstyle to make the right picks.

Wanderjar

Lots of links on Mind-sets and "what I wish I knew"
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/262-lerts-easy-tips-for-beginners/
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/15959-unicum-processes/&page=1
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/21721-mega-resource-everything-i%E2%80%99ve-learnt-going-from-noob-to-unicum-recent/&page=1
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/21419-what-basic-things-do-you-wish-you-knew-when-you-started-aka-after-3k-games-i-discovered-you-can-hold-down-the-mouse-button-to-fire-continuously/

The more advanced stuff: 
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/16996-my-play-progression-story/&page=1
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/23742-what-is-the-one-thing-that-pushed-you-from-blue-to-purple/
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/23944-how-do-you-push-past-the-38k-42k-recent-wn8-and-32k-dpg-thresholds/
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/17824-delving-into-the-mindset-of-barely-greens/&page=3

Worth reading:
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/24406-what-do-you-think-about-a-social-difficulty-curve/

Wanderjar

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/486640-hellfishs-fc-academy/ Hellfish's FC guide
http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/15443-field-commanding-guide-for-new-commanders-by-waterwar/ WaterWar's FC guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Ry9WNTK98qbnJCSHV0aVozbEE/view?pli=1  this IS a PDF so it will set off all kinds of alarms but its clean. awesome read on military theory and how it applies to the game.

I'll add more as I come across them

Wanderjar

^ proven partially true and untrue. it's a case of false advertising on WG's part and bad wiki wording. SR only works on hull MOVEMENT ( W/S ) not HULL traverse (A/D), 

there are three factors affecting overall dispersion. One due to moving traverse (affected by Smooth Ride), one due to hull traverse, and one due to turret traverse (affected by Snap Shot), and

Quote

 

ComputedDispersion = GunAccuracy * SQRT (1 + DispMovingTraverse^2 + DispHullTraverse^2 + DispTurretTraverse^2)

where:

GunAccuracy = ReportedGunDispersion

DispMovingTraverse = DispersionMoving*HullSpeed (kmh)

DispHullTraverse = DispersionHull*HullTraverseSpeed (Deg/s independent of turret movement)

DispTurretTraverse = DispersionTurret*TurretTraverseSpeed (deg/s independent of hull movement)

Then Smooth Ride seems to be better than Snap Shot in many cases and the benefits of both are minor at best and misleading/useless at worst.

now with formatting for easy viewing!
disp = Gun accy*sqrt(1+forward moving^2 + hull turning^2 + turret turn^2)
                   ^                        ^                                ^                         ^
              base value          SR skill                        nada                Snap skill    <-- skills that help. BIA helps all.


and the files you can verify it in is: 
res/scripts/avatar.pyc
it's unencrypted but you do need a tool reader to view it. Also the lang is python if its not obvious.

The Clutch skill can affect Hull turn dispersion by making it worse/faster for a shorter period of time. Nothing makes it better save equip/BIA. Clutch is still vital for tactical movement so it's validity isn't questioned but knowledge that it can make your dispersion worse while turning should be paid attention to.

.25 is pretty much the 'useful line'. I found that the actual line is a bit grey, but that it tends to stay between .25 and .27 on forward movement dispersion. Greater than .25 makes it useful, less than .25 or .27 is a case of diminishing usefulness and run something else. Exact dispersion on forward movement for your favorite tank can be found at tanks.gg in the stats or compare menus. Useful to have as a counter skill to clutch braking.

8_Hussars and my work on SR/Snap/Clutch:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TqvlcnQIdPpAzy3X0OK4lxdNjWoqo9ejcdRqu_HqIuc/edit?usp=sharing 
.25 movement dispersion (which is fairly high) seems to be the 'useful' line for where SR is viable. save for sub tier 6 (and the scout/heavies of 6, not the meds generally) SR should be reserved for a 4th/5th skill. certain premium tanks (type 64, superP) benefit from having the skill but most won't see any kind of useful gain.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10VIumnYWrLsc2xpPFnZp-MaVdfBHg_xZOHb04ie1HU8/edit?usp=sharing Hull traverse google doc. interesting if you want the raw numbers and why people are all ORD > Clutch for non-casemates.

A note on dispersion: after turning for 1 second you have reached max dispersion and will carry that value until the turn rate is decreased or stopped.


It's interesting that Clutch can actually make turning dispersion worse.

moar talky and some maths. decent crew skill discussion if you are interested on FF and combat skills.

edit: Can I into links?

Wanderjar

turn the page

The blog post!

https://ammorack.wordpress.com/   <--- not bad
http://www.thearmoredpatrol.com     <------ my prefered WG news aggregate/blog
http://ritastatusreport.live
http://wot-news.com/ 


Planners:
http://en.wottactik.tk
http://Gosutactics.com
http://maptactic.com

Data Mining:
http://www.vbaddict.net/wot.php (dont forget to use the ADU!) 
http://wotguru.com/
http://www.tanknumbers.com/en/index.php some really in depth info if you want to dig for it. the site is clunky but it works and there's some really nice stuff in there. 
http://wotscout.com/  <--- so much potential, and such fail all in one place.
http://www.wotinfo.net/en mostly camo but has other stuff too. 




 

Wanderjar

This blog will be a collection of various things that I find interesting about tanks and related material. Mostly from WotLabs but also from the official forums, (lol) and Reddit and random other places. I've tried to sort this out but some of these are several years old and some are modern. Always check against the newest version of the game! most of this is stuff I wish I knew when I was starting out.


Anyway, let the link spam begin!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhTEli-dhM&index=104&list=PLswpbiVfgibPd80kZnW2LV5018R-AYy4 In russian, but it's a fantastic micro positioning series. close captioning is awesome. The modern stuff starts around #100 or so but it's all useful for a time killer. It averages about one update a month.  
 

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The micro thread:

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short but for teh lulz

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https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/1cb5gn/tier_10_cw_crewskillsmodules_guide/

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/327305-youtube-video-series-passive-scouting-locations/ 4tankersandadog's passive scouting and micropositioning.

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