Maitri

Black Prince

73 posts in this topic

vp0m8Ga.png

If that little patch of green is convincing you that you cant sidescrape or angle, somethin's probably wrong. Plus, how many pubbies (or, well, any players) are going to know about that? Before 9.10 that was the worst place to shoot a sidescraping BP.

I know that, and have been exploiting it on enemy BPs. Plus, the hull is a LOT worse in HD, 175 pen is more than enough to pen a BP at the correct angle. 

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I know that, and have been exploiting it on enemy BPs. Plus, the hull is a LOT worse in HD, 175 pen is more than enough to pen a BP at the correct angle. 

And I'm fairly confident you are the one of the only people who do.

How exactly is the hull worse? It's been buffed. Did you play the BP much before it went HD? 175 pen always demolished the poor thing, it has always had 150mm of frontal armor with no slope at all. As someone with both models on his monitor right now:

HD Buffs:

Cupola buffed from 70-95mm to 100mm, slightly shrunk.

140mm weakspots removed, front is complete 152mm frontally.

Armor in tracks buffed from 160-180mm to 200mm.

Turret got changed quite bit, but in almost all areas its a small buff (not that the SD turret got penned anyway)

Random 115mm strongspot added to the side

HD Nerfs:

25mm weakspot added to the very back (the part we were talking about)

Lower plate nerfed by 1-2 degrees, ~3-5mm less armor

Autobounce plate nerfed by 1-2 degrees, tall close opponents may be able to avoid ricochet.

Edited by Rexxie

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Just played (and freeexp'd) through this tank some weeks ago in my NA account. Not bad at all, won 80% of games though game count is far too low to really make anything out of it. Hull is good when sidescraping, and even when sitting in open just angling hull gives at least some bounces, maybe best tier 7 heavy armor there IMHO outside new japan one which feels about same but is much bigger target. When properly sidescraping it can bouce pretty nicely even some higher tier guns.

Turret is also very hard and most importantly, it gets proper -8 degress (?) gun depression which makes soo much easier to find spots to be fully or at least partly hulldown, peek over ridges etc. -4degrees depression on Churchill1 and ChurchillVII makes those tanks just so painfully to use anywhere but flat ground.

Gun has weak alpha of course but enough for tier 7 tank, and RoF is enough to permatrack opponents sometimes.

If that tank could do 40kp/h instead of 20 this would be one better tier 7 tanks.

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Meh, I'd be happier if they gave it meaningful alpha so it can hold it's own. Nobody is scared of 150 alpha.

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Meh, I'd be happier if they gave it meaningful alpha so it can hold it's own. Nobody is scared of 150 alpha.

If it truely had the RoF to back it up, it could shine. It already has the armor to make later-game engagements versus it quite a bitter pill to swallow, but usually you just get out-DPMed on top of being outflanked and outnumbered. +5km/h also would go a long way to making it more useful for the average fight.

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If it truely had the RoF to back it up, it could shine. It already has the armor to make later-game engagements versus it quite a bitter pill to swallow, but usually you just get out-DPMed on top of being outflanked and outnumbered. +5km/h also would go a long way to making it more useful for the average fight.

Well IMO - basically anything that will give BP(or to all Churchills) is some staying power. This tank would look something like E100 with 120mm gun.

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Bovington museum has stated that the 20 km/h speed was for the twin six engine, the planned Meteor top engine would give approx 35 kph. Also: Many agree that Black Prince should have been the tier 6 heavy, tier 7 going to the FV201/A45. 

 

Also TY for proving me wrong on armor. For some reason it just has not been bouncing like before the patch. Then again, NA gold meta. 

 

As it stands, no historical buffs for the BP exist aside from speed. Shucks. I would like to see it get more dpm than an IS though. 

Edited by Stridsvagn 74

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buffing top speed to 27 or even 29 would do wonders i think, its often simply to slow for any kind of flanking + your always late, also buffing the reverse speed would be a very welcome buff.

The armor is good (for its tier), the gun is poor, but workable (APCR hungry) but the terrible speed is the real problem, especially combined with no alpha dmg and armor which only works vs idiots and same or lower tier tanks....

ps: a KV3 has the same pen, worse gold pen, same armor and is a stalin approved noobsmasher, the only difference between KV3 and BP is the alpha dmg and the top speed.... (and the lack of magic soviet track armor ofc)

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And I'm fairly confident you are the one of the only people who do.

How exactly is the hull worse? It's been buffed. Did you play the BP much before it went HD? 175 pen always demolished the poor thing, it has always had 150mm of frontal armor with no slope at all. As someone with both models on his monitor right now:

HD Buffs:

Cupola buffed from 70-95mm to 100mm, slightly shrunk.

140mm weakspots removed, front is complete 152mm frontally.

Armor in tracks buffed from 160-180mm to 200mm.

Turret got changed quite bit, but in almost all areas its a small buff (not that the SD turret got penned anyway)

Random 115mm strongspot added to the side

HD Nerfs:

25mm weakspot added to the very back (the part we were talking about)

Lower plate nerfed by 1-2 degrees, ~3-5mm less armor

Autobounce plate nerfed by 1-2 degrees, tall close opponents may be able to avoid ricochet.

weren't there super troll armour parts on the front before? I might be mixing something up here...

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That was on the other churchills. The VII/I/III all have that weird super armor spot on the front.

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buffing top speed to 27 or even 29 would do wonders i think, its often simply to slow for any kind of flanking + your always late, also buffing the reverse speed would be a very welcome buff.

Yeah, I think 28kmh is pretty much the magic number, that's the Jagdtiger 88's top speed, and given its armor and gun, it makes good use of it. Any less and you'll be out of the fight too often.

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Improving the BP is a no-brainer, for some reason they gave it 0.20 turret bloom when everything else is 0.12-0.18. No idea why it would be that bad in the first place (JustWGthings), but if it could at least not have artificially bad gun handling it would help. Should get a small RoF buff too. Make it a slow moving DPM machine like the Churchill III, give it some sort of unique niche. As it stands it's a pointless crap tank. Slower than everyting else in tier and brings crap alpha and DPM with bad handling when it actually gets somewhere. If you have a tank with cripplingly slow speed it can't have have medicore armor/firepower too.

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Didn't the BP gun dep get buffed from -6 to -8, or has it always been -8?

Btw RIP A45: The whole point of the 45 was the better gundep and HP/t for mountain-goating, but it looks as though it might have become completely worthless after the BP buff (not that it was ever worth anything except convincing pubbies to pay irl money for it)

Edited by lavawing

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2015‎ ‎8‎:‎05‎:‎39‎, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Improving the BP is a no-brainer, for some reason they gave it 0.20 turret bloom when everything else is 0.12-0.18. No idea why it would be that bad in the first place (JustWGthings), but if it could at least not have artificially bad gun handling it would help. Should get a small RoF buff too. Make it a slow moving DPM machine like the Churchill III, give it some sort of unique niche. As it stands it's a pointless crap tank. Slower than everyting else in tier and brings crap alpha and DPM with bad handling when it actually gets somewhere. If you have a tank with cripplingly slow speed it can't have have medicore armor/firepower too.

Just playing this now, I think this should be the change.  The bloom is too high for a tank that moves that slow, if it moved faster the bloom would be terrible.  You essentially have to start shooting as soon as you see a tank and keep firing as you drive up to take advantage of what gun you have, it would be nice to have a few more of those shots go in to make up the alpha difference you face.  I fire more on the move in this tank then any other since.  This applies even more if you do not spam gold in it, the pen is low enough that auto-aim wont work against a lot of things. 

One "good" thing though is that since its so slow in reverse its very accurate when retreating, you can really bleed tanks as they drive up to you and kill you in higher tier games.

If the ROF was 13 and the bloom lower it would be a little more enjoyable to drive.  Right now its just a grind to drive.

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The Solution for making the Black Prince able to compete in a brawling battle ?

fit vertical stabilisers , and above all , wiggle and also move back when on reload

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I got mastery in this last night, 6th game in the grind.  Tier 8 battle on Tundra.  Side scraping off the rock on the north cap,  full health enemy Ferd approaches from the north and sits there while I put 11 gold rounds through his lower plate.  He bounces every shot on me and never moved.  Thanks for the mastery and the win.

Overall fired 32 gold rounds and did ~2700 dmg.  Ended up losing about 100k credits.

The alpha is an absolute joke at tier 7.  However, I don't hate the rest of the tank

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11 hours ago, Alex5978 said:

I got mastery in this last night, 6th game in the grind.  Tier 8 battle on Tundra.  Side scraping off the rock on the north cap,  full health enemy Ferd approaches from the north and sits there while I put 11 gold rounds through his lower plate.  He bounces every shot on me and never moved.  Thanks for the mastery and the win.

Overall fired 32 gold rounds and did ~2700 dmg.  Ended up losing about 100k credits.

The alpha is an absolute joke at tier 7.  However, I don't hate the rest of the tank

Prem at ferdie lower plate?

if it hits the plate, 171 pen is going to go through anyway. If it misses the lower plate, then having prem wont make a difference.

 

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12 hours ago, Th3GoldenDragon said:

Prem at ferdie lower plate?

if it hits the plate, 171 pen is going to go through anyway. If it misses the lower plate, then having prem wont make a difference.

 

Yep, I'm a dirty gold noob

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Pretty close to a rage sale and free XP about ~90000 to the caern.  Life is to short to go 20kph with 150 alpha at tier 7, even worse when you get constant tier 9 games.  Absolutely no one is afraid of this tank, it's a speedbump at tier 9.

One lol I had, dmp'd a kv5 to death.  Must have been a bot.

 

edit: only played 15 games in it, seems like 150

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I just finished the ground in two days. Took me 58 games with reserves. This tank is so bad it made me laugh. In the current MM I only got like 5 top tier games, which is kind of standard nowadays. With that in mind: This tank is VERY slow, has medicore armor, and low alpha damage. I think in the current game any tank has 3 important trait: armor, gun, mobility. If a tank has all 3 it is OP/very good, 2 then it is good/balanced, with 1 redeeming feature it is usually UP. This shit has nothing going for it.

I beat the system, by not free xp-ing it. Yaaaay!

:tomatard:

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You modern-day players are whoozies. Back in my day, we grinded through shit tanks the hard way, learned to git gud and left them behind us with houndreds of games played and >55% winrates just to proove a point.

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14 hours ago, TAdoo87 said:

I just finished the ground in two days. Took me 58 games with reserves. This tank is so bad it made me laugh. In the current MM I only got like 5 top tier games, which is kind of standard nowadays. With that in mind: This tank is VERY slow, has medicore armor, and low alpha damage. I think in the current game any tank has 3 important trait: armor, gun, mobility. If a tank has all 3 it is OP/very good, 2 then it is good/balanced, with 1 redeeming feature it is usually UP. This shit has nothing going for it.

I beat the system, by not free xp-ing it. Yaaaay!

:tomatard:

I don't know i hated the churchil VII, but i liked the BP, slow as molasses and shitty armor. But though turret + good dpm + people ignoring you in high tier games = 62% WR. I did free xp the Caer, 54 games 37% W/R was too much for me.

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