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Conway Toleration Thread

76 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, Fenxis said:

Opps, ya. It's AP round is underwhelming but the APRC is one of the better ones.

Balance-wise I feel like they started with the Tort and then gave the Conway a lot of trash stats because it's faster and has a turret. When really the tank is a trash medium with a bit higher DPM.

IMHO Both the Tort and Conway need significantly better bloom stats to make any sort of use of their DPM.

I'm still slowly playing through the Conway to unlock the Shitbarn (40k short) for personal mission stuff, ultimately won't keep the tier 9 due to lack of crews.

Yeah the tank works with pure ACPR but still barely. Especially given ACPR pen loss at distance (and not 330-340 pen) making it hard to pen e100 turrets

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19 hours ago, stagnate said:

Are you sure that's the reason?

I have a bad tendency to keep tanks around well past their best-before date thinking I would play them again but never doing so.

The Conway has a certain British charm, semi-decent mobility, turret, DPM that makes it situationally nice so sometimes I think I would play it for the lulz but it's so UP and the gun is so trash... oh and higher alpha on the Defender was pretty much the final straw.

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9 hours ago, Fenxis said:

I have a bad tendency to keep tanks around well past their best-before date thinking I would play them again but never doing so.

The Conway has a certain British charm, semi-decent mobility, turret, DPM that makes it situationally nice so sometimes I think I would play it for the lulz but it's so UP and the gun is so trash... oh and higher alpha on the Defender was pretty much the final straw.

The worst part is Skorpion is a trier lower. You get more alpha and speed for some armor (so you bounce 0 instead of 1 shot) and dpm

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The entire line was poorly made if anything. Like quite many UK tanks, these tanks sits more on less wrong tiers. Seriously, with just DPM (expect for Charioteer where they would just need to remove L7) and HP nerfs the entire line would be possible to downtier with not too many problems and if anything they would fit those tiers even more:

Achilles (t5) -> Challenger (t6) -> Charioteer (t7) -> conway (t8) -> FV4005 (t9) -> FV 215b 183 (t10, move from the AT line to this line, it fits this line more anyways even if it has bit more armor)

Achilles is like Wolverine with much better pen and alpha, but halved gun depression and significantly worse gun stats so it would be possible to fit there, just take pre-buff Challenger and cut its HP down to 600 and put it to tier 6 (it was arguably that bad), remove L7 from Charioteer and bit nerf its HP and its fine T7 (no need to even touch 20pdr gun stats really), Conway is perfectly fine at tier 8 with just HP and DPM nerf, Shitbarn needs to be reworked anyways and so does 183 so i wont discuss those further, apart from the fact that really, Shitbarn is just 183 that is bigger and has no armor (hell, mobility WOULD be comparable if 183 didnt have super awful terrain resists; pre-8.5 183 was about as fast as Shitbarn)

Make so that Alecto leads to Achilles among with AT2, and then make Valentine lead to Archer which in returns leads to Challenger. Keep mediums (sherman firefly & friends, not the main medium line) unchanged. Then finally give the AT line new tier 10 that ACTUALLY fits the line (like FV205) and buff tier 6-9, and we are good to go.

If anything entire UK tech tree would be reworked by downtiering quite many tanks. Med line would be reworked by just changing armaments and downtiering tier 4-7, then "split" tier 8 Centurion into ACTUAL Centurion I at tier 7 (with 17 pdr and stuff) and then Centurion III at tier 8 which effectively is current Centurion I with Centurion III turret and 20 pdr (and they have more or less identical hulls). Churchills would be downtiered with armament and HP changes, and FV201 would fit perfectly at tier 7; sadly its already premium so i guess gun and mobility buffs would work aswell.

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13 hours ago, Fenxis said:

I have a bad tendency to keep tanks around well past their best-before date thinking I would play them again but never doing so.

The Conway has a certain British charm, semi-decent mobility, turret, DPM that makes it situationally nice so sometimes I think I would play it for the lulz but it's so UP and the gun is so trash... oh and higher alpha on the Defender was pretty much the final straw.

The Conway's gun ain't at fault at all. Put it onto a more mobile and more sturdy vehicle and it is a great gun and package. Oh wait, they did that and called it Conqueror.

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44 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

The entire line was poorly made if anything. Like quite many UK tanks, these tanks sits more on less wrong tiers. Seriously, with just DPM (expect for Charioteer where they would just need to remove L7) and HP nerfs the entire line would be possible to downtier with not too many problems and if anything they would fit those tiers even more:

Achilles (t5) -> Challenger (t6) -> Charioteer (t7) -> conway (t8) -> FV4005 (t9) -> FV 215b 183 (t10, move from the AT line to this line, it fits this line more anyways even if it has bit more armor)

Achilles is like Wolverine with much better pen and alpha, but halved gun depression and significantly worse gun stats so it would be possible to fit there, just take pre-buff Challenger and cut its HP down to 600 and put it to tier 6 (it was arguably that bad), remove L7 from Charioteer and bit nerf its HP and its fine T7 (no need to even touch 20pdr gun stats really), Conway is perfectly fine at tier 8 with just HP and DPM nerf, Shitbarn needs to be reworked anyways and so does 183 so i wont discuss those further, apart from the fact that really, Shitbarn is just 183 that is bigger and has no armor (hell, mobility WOULD be comparable if 183 didnt have super awful terrain resists; pre-8.5 183 was about as fast as Shitbarn)

Make so that Alecto leads to Achilles among with AT2, and then make Valentine lead to Archer which in returns leads to Challenger. Keep mediums (sherman firefly & friends, not the main medium line) unchanged. Then finally give the AT line new tier 10 that ACTUALLY fits the line (like FV205) and buff tier 6-9, and we are good to go.

If anything entire UK tech tree would be reworked by downtiering quite many tanks. Med line would be reworked by just changing armaments and downtiering tier 4-7, then "split" tier 8 Centurion into ACTUAL Centurion I at tier 7 (with 17 pdr and stuff) and then Centurion III at tier 8 which effectively is current Centurion I with Centurion III turret and 20 pdr (and they have more or less identical hulls). Churchills would be downtiered with armament and HP changes, and FV201 would fit perfectly at tier 7; sadly its already premium so i guess gun and mobility buffs would work aswell.

Achilles is good. The gun has decent soft stats for trier and the pen/alpha it gets given it's on a turreted td. Though yeah I could easily be a t5 and I agree you can downtrier them all. Conway is a horrible platform for a t9 anything. Slow, Derpy, low alpha and meh pen for a TD. 

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

Achilles is good. The gun has decent soft stats for trier and the pen/alpha it gets given it's on a turreted td. Though yeah I could easily be a t5 and I agree you can downtrier them all. Conway is a horrible platform for a t9 anything. Slow, Derpy, low alpha and meh pen for a TD. 

I fucking hated Achilles because it literally has most awful combination (huge profile + no armor + no gun depression + awful bloom + pewpew gun) i can imagine. Now if only it had fuel tanks and ammoracks everywhere...

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2 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

I fucking hated Achilles because it literally has most awful combination (huge profile + no armor + no gun depression + awful bloom + pewpew gun) i can imagine. Now if only it had fuel tanks and ammoracks everywhere...

It somehow worked for me but it's t5. The only tank that didn't work for me was the Skoda t24 because no dpm + no armor means you can't defend when the so often on that trier yolo happens. 

 

I hate the Conway more. Jesus I hate it more than the Tort and I really hated the Tort. I really dislike awkward tanks with fake mobility (ie a mobility that's just high enough to be an excuse for no armor and shit gun stats but not enough to allow you to flex and work with your no armor). Conway is literally everything people hate about the t54 but worse (I don't believe it's true about t54 as much as here) - for this to work you have to go full prem spam + food. Then yeah the tank becomes good. Surprise. 

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9 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

The Conway's gun ain't at fault at all. Put it onto a more mobile and more sturdy vehicle and it is a great gun and package. Oh wait, they did that and called it Conqueror.

I would argue for 400 alpha, at tier 9, that the soft stats are terrible -- I'm guessing 75% more than the 390 alpha NATO meds. Oh and you can't mount a vert stab so makes that 100% --  medium-style snapshots are straight out of the question. So you are hoping for shooting gallery situations to open up.

 

13 hours ago, hazzgar said:

The worst part is Skorpion is a trier lower. You get more alpha and speed for some armor (so you bounce 0 instead of 1 shot) and dpm

http://tanks.gg/compare/conway?t=skorpion-g~charioteer

It wouldn't be too hard to argue that the SkorpG [alpha] and Charioteer [pen and shell velocity] are straight up better (other than the larger health pool).

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9 minutes ago, Fenxis said:

I would argue for the 400 alpha that you get, at tier 9, that the soft stats are terrible -- I'm guessing 75% more than the 390 alpha NATO meds. Oh and you can't mount a vert stab so makes that 100% --  medium-style snapshots are straight out of the question. So you are hoping for shooting gallery situations to open up.

 

Clarification: Bloom-modificators are tied to the suspension (for hull traverse and hull-movement) or the turret (turret traverse, d'uh). Thus I percieve these hidden stats as part of the chassis, not the gun itself.

Besides that, the Conway has actually pretty damn good turret-traverse bloom. Where it completely falls apart is any sort of hull-movement and this the entire crux of the vehicle. You have no armor, you have no camo, you have no positional flexibility (very limited gun-depression and elevation), so you are automatically forced to move a whole lot more than your tank's properties actually make sense and, thanks to the lack of positional flexibility, often overexpose yourself.

The funny thing is, that the brits have three vehicles on tier 9, that try to do the exact same thing, namely Conqueror, Tortoise and Conway. All three fit the exact same gun (and it is a good gun, even for a TD, as what it lacks in alpha, it offers in accuracy, shell velocity and sheer brutal DPM). Tortoise has top DPM and armor to make the gun work and while lacking a turret, it has positional flexibility as the gun has a wide arc and darn good gun-depression. Conqueror has decent enough armor, decent mobility and some positional flexibility, so gets the least DPM, but still is no slouch in that regard and it also sports the, by far, best soft stats. Now the Conway is stuck with the mobility-trope and sacrifcies the armor of the Tortoise, but retains the brutal DPM. Wierdly though, it has less armor than the Conqueror, but is just barely more mobile than the Conq for some reason (red flag #1; a problem the entire Centurion-lineup was fighting with and the Conway inherited it from there). Although the Conway gets the fully-traversable turret, it still has way less positional flexibility than either Conq or Tortoise (red flag #2). And to add insult to injury, it also has the worst soft stats out of the three, so it's increased mobility (compared to the Tortoise, which has just slightly better soft stats), really screws it over badly (red flag #3).

As it stands, the Tortoise does the brutal DPM-submission way better, as it can aford to keep the gun singing even and especially outside of camo-cover and when it comes to the flanking DPMer role, the Conqueror is basically just as fast and is able to stand the ground much better still, not to even talk about snapshooting, at the cost of about 900 DPM, a trade any sane mind would take instantly. Fixing the Conway means lowering the soft-stats to be somewhere between Tortoise and Conq, as well as making it more mobile than the Conq and giving it more positional flexibility, as increasing the armor isn't something that would make the vehicle stand out between it's peers. Adressing just any one of these factors, leads to an underwhelming tank.

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This topic should be switched to the 'Conway Intoleration Thread'.

I'd gotten the Conway on discount a month ago. This may be one of the worst purchases I've made. Calling it a tank is generous.

The Conway was conceived into the game when stat balance was probably still a thing then. They needed to ensure the Conqueror and Tortoise would not be made redundant with this new tier 9 TD that packs the same gun on a Centurion chassis. And so they beat it to near-death with the balance mace (not the spray mace, the spiky medieval-sort mace).

I'd compare this dilemma of the UK tier 9 120mm gun armed tanks to the balance/difference between the German tier 8 TDs: the Jagdpanther II, Ferdinand, and Rhm Borsig WT. But at least they got those three more or less right, and we have three distinct tanks that pack the devastating 12.8 cm gun (Borsig having the 150 aside). The Ferdi relies on its armor, the Rhm on its stealth and turret, and the JP2 with its flexibility and mobility. 

Then we get the Skorpion G.

At this point, the Skorpion G is the epitome of WG's disregard, or the end of their self-imposed constraints, regarding game balance. And while plans are made to help the French TDs, the Russian TDs, the USA TDs having gotten speed buffs, and the Swedish pancakes in the game, no thoughts have been made regarding the British TDs.

Because f*ck the British, according to WG.

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On 7/12/2017 at 6:30 AM, ThomChen114 said:

 

Because f*ck the British, according to WG.

The original British branch (medium and heavy) were screwed because of lack of research, among other things. The turret TD line, was screwed because wargamming insisted on a much more rigid historical loadouts. No idea or concepts were permitted: everything really had to be mounted. Among other things, there was another conway turret design IRL (improved) and the charioteer almost didn't get the 105mm in game, until it could be proven the British actually did it.

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On 2017/7/19 at 2:44 AM, Ogopogo said:

The original British branch (medium and heavy) were screwed because of lack of research, among other things. The turret TD line, was screwed because wargamming insisted on a much more rigid historical loadouts. No idea or concepts were permitted: everything really had to be mounted. Among other things, there was another conway turret design IRL (improved) and the charioteer almost didn't get the 105mm in game, until it could be proven the British actually did it.

Which is amusing when you consider how much bullshit WG introduced ever since, the biggest culprit and epitome of their madness in the form of Japanese and German super heavy tanks  

because fantasy is better than reality

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On 7/20/2017 at 0:00 AM, ThomChen114 said:

Which is amusing when you consider how much bullshit WG introduced ever since, the biggest culprit and epitome of their madness in the form of Japanese and German super heavy tanks  

because fantasy is better than reality

Yeah, trust me, we fought the idea a fair bit, but that was the way thing had to be. The Fv4005 was pretty much the last thing any of us wanted to see as the tier 10. There was even (several) better alternatives for tier 10, ranging from project prodigal tanks with autoloading 120mm L11's drum style (see first below), lewis gun style (big flat drum), or alternative, in a range of different configurations. Some turreted, some fixed, some limited arc turreted. Other ideas included contentious tank projects (see second picture below), and other varying configurations and armaments, ranging from ~100mm to 140mm for kinetic, and up to 160mm for HESH (well there was another 180mm one).

JXQDFLd.jpg

 

Yjw91Fa.jpg

Funny thing about the second one, it was primarily meant for to test armour and a couple of other things (hence 17 pounder), with a heavier design proposed. The thing was technically (and I stress technically) immune to 120mm APDS practically point blank (from L1) and projected 210mm HEAT across the frontal arc.

The idea that British lack tank designs only makes sense when you are talking with regard to constructed tanks. They have many extremely fleshed out designs that stopped just before the full sized prototype (many small scale mock ups), with many details even going to the point of showing bolts and very detailed engine components. About the only thing the British do much of was larger calibre kinetic weapons, but they did play with a few (and considered squeezebore's for some, like the 152mm squeezebore), but generally preferred HESH for higher caliber guns.

If you look at a list of FV series tank, that's only the barest fraction of British designs. There are easily enough tanks for many more British branches yet (even a TOG line), and more mini-branches after that.

On 7/22/2017 at 3:02 PM, Madner Kami said:

I would like to know more, please.

Generally, lower profile, and improved protection and performance. I can't really share anything more, as there was some hurdles that aren't exactly straightforward to copy a picture from Bovy.

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Every so often I'm trying to play a couple of games in the thing, thinking it is better than I remember it. I am also grinding the 103-0. Every time the conway ends up just if not worse than I remember it, a comparison which is not helped by the 103-0 which is just a better tank, a so much better tank. Better mobility, significantly better camo, better practical dpm (due to much better gun handling), better pen, and more effective armour. 

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What do you guys make of it after the buff?

I can imagine the 103-0 is better in every way at the same role. However i had the Conway unlocked for a long time, and tonight I finally bought it given the recent improvements to it, and the "shit barn" 4005. My first three games I averaged 2800 dmg, but only 33% WR. It's a very passive machine. I hate camping red line :(

Also - what equipment do you recommend? I went with Rammer, Vents and Binos. Partially because it made sense and partially because I had those things. Camo isn't as good as I expected, so I skipped the net. The reload is so good, I wonder if using something else in place of rammer is worth it. GLD seems pointless, the gun aims really fast.

 

Edit: forgot it has another gun, I was talking about the 120. So maybe GLD for the second gun. Is the 140mm worth using? Still 60k away from it. 

 

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On 11/14/2017 at 3:31 AM, GotTank said:

What do you guys make of it after the buff?

Edit: forgot it has another gun, I was talking about the 120. So maybe GLD for the second gun. Is the 140mm worth using? Still 60k away from it. 

The 120mm is a fantastic gun, however it doesn't work all that great on this platform. The 120mm requires a lot more exposure which the giant paper turret can't afford to do. Maybe if you plan to redline this thing the 120 could be effective. It's also nice to have 325 APCR which means you can pen anything.

The 5.5" is a mixed bag. I haven't fired an AP shell out of it yet although I should really mix it in more often. The HESH round is very unreliable; on some tanks side shots in to the tracks will fail to pen at which point you're just spamming HE at them. On the other hand, rolling 800+ on pens is pretty damn satisfying. I certainly think the 5.5" is the better gun because alpha works better on softies like this.

Overall I find the Conway on the funner side of average. It certainly isn't great but I'm enjoying playing through it. The tank moves extremely well; acceleration is good and it can hold the top speed while turning and even climbing some. This helps a lot with poking and covering during reloads. The 5.5" handles pretty darn well for the alpha. But mostly the satisfaction comes from the HESH pens. Basically anything that punishes Skorps/RHMs amuses me.

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6 hours ago, dualmaster333 said:

The 120mm is a fantastic gun, however it doesn't work all that great on this platform. The 120mm requires a lot more exposure which the giant paper turret can't afford to do. Maybe if you plan to redline this thing the 120 could be effective. It's also nice to have 325 APCR which means you can pen anything.

The 5.5" is a mixed bag. I haven't fired an AP shell out of it yet although I should really mix it in more often. The HESH round is very unreliable; on some tanks side shots in to the tracks will fail to pen at which point you're just spamming HE at them. On the other hand, rolling 800+ on pens is pretty damn satisfying. I certainly think the 5.5" is the better gun because alpha works better on softies like this.

Overall I find the Conway on the funner side of average. It certainly isn't great but I'm enjoying playing through it. The tank moves extremely well; acceleration is good and it can hold the top speed while turning and even climbing some. This helps a lot with poking and covering during reloads. The 5.5" handles pretty darn well for the alpha. But mostly the satisfaction comes from the HESH pens. Basically anything that punishes Skorps/RHMs amuses me.

Ah, okay. I'm about to unlock the derp gun and that it's fun is good to hear. I imagine it totally changes the tank - my guess was not for the better, but not for the worse either. So far this thing has been easy to "tolerate" and I'm even having fun here and there. You do feel a bit useless in some maps, like El Halluf, when everyone goes north.

I've been playing it like a pseudo-medium on occasion, usually late game, flanking when people are engaged and so forth. The gun almost makes up for the platform in those cases, and the 5.5 could be even better since a lot of the times those are side shots or even ass shots. Still though, I fear the drop in DPM will be palpable. Like a jumbo T49 that is worse in every single way, but I guess it's a taste of what's to come at tier 10. 

So how's the "shit barn"? Is it worth it to turbo-grind the 183 before it gets yanked? 

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I've had this tank unlocked for...2 years maybe? Since not long after this TD line came out. I finally bought it after the buffs. So far it is definitely tolerable. The platform is still a bad medium platform, but with 10 degrees of gun depression and a good gun, I still have fun. 

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The derp gun really is more fun. It drains credits a bit, and running food isn't helping, but i will probably do the rest of the grind with it.

I've never made videos from replays before, so this is my first time - don't judge me too harshly :) Mistakes were made, but it worked out - let me know what you think!

Ace tanker, 6400 dmg, Top Gun:
 



 

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Feels like derp gun is just too inaccurate for this hull. Tank really wants to snipe long range and derp guns weakish accuracy, slowish reload and bit weak penetration is bad match for that.

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I'm stuck in the middle of this FV183 grind.  I was thinking about unlocking the Conway to get the gun unlocked for the Tort.

The FV4005 was rated 2nd from last in the Tier 10 Elimination Thread a long time ago.  The Conway was 7th eliminated at tier 9.

Are they much better or just marginally better now?  I got F-ed up by a 4005 last week, it did like 800 damage to my VKB.  And a buddy was just outright ended in the Ru251.  Was the 4005 gun always like that?  Or is is just a slot machine like the 183?

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On 11/19/2017 at 11:52 PM, sahtila said:

Feels like derp gun is just too inaccurate for this hull. Tank really wants to snipe long range and derp guns weakish accuracy, slowish reload and bit weak penetration is bad match for that.

You can kinda sorta snipe with the derp, if you have food, vents, BIA, good crew etc. The derp is really more for this kind of play style depicted in this video. Also, don't be afraid to use AP, and not just HESH. It'll save you $$$ and quite possibly result in more damage at the end. 

 

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