Meirzin

Leopard 1

473 posts in this topic

I see 3 ways of making Leo relevant:

1. Better handling, possibly more DPM, possibly turret armor. Basically AMX 30B type of treatment. But it'd still remain shit in city maps, and we already have enough ridgeline high DPM tanks.

2a. 3-shot autoloader. Considering how similar the tank is to TVP ( https://tanks.gg/compare/leopard-1?t=tvp-t-5051 ), it seems like a decent solution that would play simlilarly to TVP. Playstyle on open maps would not change that much IMO, depending on a map I guess, but you'd actually be useful in city maps. DPM around 2,5k with 2-2,22s between shots to make it a little bit different from TVP. 

2b. 2-shot autoloader, 1-1,2s between shots, because why not try to make a new gimmick. It'd put it somewhere between a T10 Chi-Ri and Grille, and make completely different from anything there is on T10.

Italians had a paper design of autoloading Leo so it'd be kinda historical, although WG might be waiting with this for Italian tree.

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11 hours ago, Felicius said:

o: 430U for CW of no? If you have only one tier 10 RU med crew (i kept the best ones for T-54 and pancake anyway).

Typical generalist setup for cw/advances/strongholds is:

2x Bat Chats (Scouts & Spotters, T-100lt might see use here too)

5x  907 (Flanking force and DPM tanks)

6x WZ 5A (Brute force and brawling with mobility)

2x 113 (Brawlers and stopping force)

 

OFC you will mix that up in some maps, S.Conq, STRV, Maus, Type 5, CGC, 50B & even Kranvagn sees regular use. 430U could take 113s or WZ 5As position with its increased mobility, but it will not replace any "medium tank roles", at least in my mind. But we'll see how the meta evolves.

 

430U could be dank on the Malinovka hill fights.

 

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9 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

Typical generalist setup for cw/advances/strongholds is:

2x Bat Chats (Scouts & Spotters, T-100lt might see use here too)

5x  907 (Flanking force and DPM tanks)

6x WZ 5A (Brute force and brawling with mobility)

2x 113 (Brawlers and stopping force)

 

OFC you will mix that up in some maps, S.Conq, STRV, Maus, Type 5, CGC, 50B & even Kranvagn sees regular use. 430U could take 113s or WZ 5As position with its increased mobility, but it will not replace any "medium tank roles", at least in my mind. But we'll see how the meta evolves.

 

430U could be dank on the Malinovka hill fights.

 

I'll add the most common EU setup:

2 x bet čet (sometime 100lt)

5 x wz 11111111-5a or type 5 :)

the rest 907

1 sky cancer occasionally..

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On 23/1/2018 at 10:43 AM, SaintLaurentius said:

Typical generalist setup for cw/advances/strongholds is:

2x Bat Chats (Scouts & Spotters, T-100lt might see use here too)

5x  907 (Flanking force and DPM tanks)

6x WZ 5A (Brute force and brawling with mobility)

2x 113 (Brawlers and stopping force)

 

OFC you will mix that up in some maps, S.Conq, STRV, Maus, Type 5, CGC, 50B & even Kranvagn sees regular use. 430U could take 113s or WZ 5As position with its increased mobility, but it will not replace any "medium tank roles", at least in my mind. But we'll see how the meta evolves.

 

430U could be dank on the Malinovka hill fights.

 

113 because of the turret while keeping some dpm advatage on the IS7?

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On 23/1/2018 at 10:43 AM, SaintLaurentius said:

Typical generalist setup for cw/advances/strongholds is:

2x Bat Chats (Scouts & Spotters, T-100lt might see use here too)

5x  907 (Flanking force and DPM tanks)

6x WZ 5A (Brute force and brawling with mobility)

2x 113 (Brawlers and stopping force)

 

OFC you will mix that up in some maps, S.Conq, STRV, Maus, Type 5, CGC, 50B & even Kranvagn sees regular use. 430U could take 113s or WZ 5As position with its increased mobility, but it will not replace any "medium tank roles", at least in my mind. But we'll see how the meta evolves.

 

430U could be dank on the Malinovka hill fights.

 

113 because of the turret while keeping some dpm advatage on the IS7?

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5 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

113 because of the turret while keeping some dpm advatage on the IS7?

What? 430U has atleast as good turret as the 113

4 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

113 because of the turret while keeping some dpm advatage on the IS7?

What? 430U has atleast as good turret as the 113

 

:MingLee:

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31 minutes ago, SaintLaurentius said:

What? 430U has atleast as good turret as the 113

I thought he was asking about the current meta versus what will happen after 9.22.

The 113 will have an HP, DPM and gun depression advantage over the 430U, right?

It would be more mobile too if they hadn't let the 430U keep the RU hover-med ground resistances.

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4 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

What? 430U has atleast as good turret as the 113

What? 430U has atleast as good turret as the 113

 

:MingLee:

He probably meant 113 as having a (marginally) better turret than 5A. hatches are smaller, just enough to be a lot less likely to get hit in CW. And hulldown against meds is what these tanks both excel.

430 U has OP turret better than both.  by a huge margin. hatches are even smaller, and almost a 100 mm stronger. you need 300+ just to get through, whereas you can pen weak chinese knockoffs with any tier 9/10 stock ammo (if you hit) . Like an E5 HD overbuff.

Also, 430 U turret sides are quite a bit stronger. Just enough to expose to multiple enemies in about 30-40 degrees angle and not get penned. 113/5A turrets work only  dead straight on.

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I love how this tread about the Leo has derailed toward other tanks. It proves that the poor tank is garbage and there is no reason talking about it. Sigh and I would like to have one but I cant waste my time and credits on a shit tank. 

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Is there any point in getting a leopard when you have a pta? Especially after unlocking everything.

It looks like a very small upgrade but it comes with far worse matchmaking.

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On 1/22/2018 at 8:39 AM, SaintLaurentius said:

@TAdoo87Interesting data. I would have imagined that the 121b and T95E6 would have been worse than it. But perhaps them being CW reward (ergo better players play them) influences the WR enough.

FV4005 is also pretty shit, it's literally a one hit wonder, sometimes there's literally nothing you can do. The tank has no camo to snipe without getting spotted on open maps nor can it take any hits on city maps. People even tend to load HE right after you're spotted. Also 30B is trash nowadays with its ruined penetration with HEAT & APCR. 

I guess they could buff Leo 1s reload by 0,3secs and give it a bit better dispersion values on the move. It wouldnt make it OP nor on par with Russian hovermeds, but it would give it a bit better firepower to use on city maps. 

Remember this is avg WR. So some of the tanks you mentioned may work very well for bad or average players. AMX 30B has awesome DPM so even a shitter yologing will do some dmg in it. 

 

FV4005 is very shitter friendly since lol no weakspots + high alpha. They don't even need to pen, just hit 2 shots and they hit their average t10 dpg

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14 minutes ago, SaintLaurentius said:

:notlikethis:

So because I'm not nice to you in another topic you decided to be a dick here. Seriously are you that sensitive? Can you respond to what I posted and say where you don't agree? 

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17 hours ago, hazzgar said:

So because I'm not nice to you in another topic you decided to be a dick here. Seriously are you that sensitive? Can you respond to what I posted and say where you don't agree? 

My thoughts exactly. Lets leave it at that.

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2 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

My thoughts exactly. Lets leave it at that.

Sorry I'm to salty for that. Btw. Doesn't fv4005 have 2nd best DPG and WR acording to vbaddict? At least it had on QB's big revelation v4 is broken.  So the "one hit wonder" works. 

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11 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

 Btw. Doesn't fv4005 have 2nd best DPG and WR acording to vbaddict? At least it had on QB's big revelation v4 is broken.  So the "one hit wonder" works. 

Saw that too. Though only tier 10 TDs were on that list I must add. 

 

On 4.4.2018 at 4:41 AM, Katoleras said:

Is there any point in getting a leopard when you have a pta? Especially after unlocking everything.

It looks like a very small upgrade but it comes with far worse matchmaking.

PTA is better tier for tier, as you assumed. Leo 1 is still an upgrade nonetheless, so I would atleast give it a try. While the tank might not compare against the 430Us, 907s etc. it's still fun tank to drive around. The mobility is very good and gun is reliable when fully aimed.

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1 hour ago, SaintLaurentius said:

Saw that too. Though only tier 10 TDs were on that list I must add. 

 

Yeah but it was above 50% avg wr which is still not shit in the age where almost all td's mean shit WR. I know a few unis enjoy their fv4005 too but I think the tank works better for average players who redline. 

 

As for leo - I'd wait. Someone reported of an internal wg test with a 3 shot autoloader. 

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

As for leo - I'd wait. Someone reported of an internal wg test with a 3 shot autoloader. 

If you mean this. Don't get your hopes too high. This is nothing but a testbed for the Italians. And unlike it is written in the news it is nothing new. In fact I posted the same picture here in the forums back in January. 

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

Yeah but it was above 50% avg wr which is still not shit in the age where almost all td's mean shit WR. I know a few unis enjoy their fv4005 too but I think the tank works better for average players who redline. 

 

As for leo - I'd wait. Someone reported of an internal wg test with a 3 shot autoloader. 

I suppose, but I dunno how redlining increases your WR that much. From what I've seen, FV4005s arent the ones camping usually the most. It works best in brawls in which you peak around corners with the massive boomstick  "one hit wonder". OHW, cos the tank has literally nothing else going for it, except the gun itself.

 

As for the topic in hand: Leo with 3 shot autoloader sounds like the new Italian medium coming up. Which wouldnt make any sense since they just changed the 30B to not be straight up copy of Leopard 1. Wouldn't make any sense, but after all, we're talking about WG here:MingLee:

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11 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

I suppose, but I dunno how redlining increases your WR that much. From what I've seen, FV4005s arent the ones camping usually the most. It works best in brawls in which you peak around corners with the massive boomstick  "one hit wonder". OHW, cos the tank has literally nothing else going for it, except the gun itself.

 

As for the topic in hand: Leo with 3 shot autoloader sounds like the new Italian medium coming up. Which wouldnt make any sense since they just changed the 30B to not be straight up copy of Leopard 1. Wouldn't make any sense, but after all, we're talking about WG here:MingLee:

You misunderstood me. That is average WR. So WR for all players. A tank that performs above average for shitty to mediocre players will have a higher average WR than a tank that performs shit for all players. This is why the fv4005 has higher avg wr. It's bad for skilled players but it's good for bad to mediocre players because the tank itself requires less skill to play. So yeah a typical bob either peeks 3 times, trades every time and does 2100 dmg or redlines on open maps and ends up with 3k dmg since he will do 650dmg even on hull down tanks. This is why the fv4005 has higher average wr. Because it takes literally no effort to get 2000-2100 avg dpg it has. Can't say the same about the obj268 (regular one), e3 (too slow so loses dmg on steamrolls), Badger (same problem + low alpha and pen), Grille (derpy gun, needs aiming to deal similar dmg to fv non pen) and a few others. To me the strv is much better but I'm a light tank player first and foremost so vision games work for me better than looking for super distracted enemies in brawls.

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6 hours ago, hazzgar said:

You misunderstood me. 

No, I didn't. I even understood the average WR the first time. I'm just trying to make sense on how is that possible.

 

Would it be possible to put this conversation to rest and focus on the actual topic, Leo 1?

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Yeah as for the Autoloader - it was internal testing, not even supertest. This only tells me how stupid WG is since it's basically a random idea. This tank isn't hard to balance. Give it t100lt bloom values, 0.2acc and leave the rest. See if it's broken or not. Probably still won't be because of map design.

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leo 1 is bad because it doesn't really excel in anything.

 

e50m snipes better, other mediums exception of 430u can snipe well

ammo racked all the time, thank god for reusable equipment now. 

dpm is good but not amazing.

armor LUL u even life bro??

camo is ok

mobility is great

whenever i see a leo 1 on enemy team, i just say to my self " ya boi ez win ka ching"

 

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