TheBriar

Panther - A Misunderstood Beauty

94 posts in this topic

On 9/14/2016 at 7:28 AM, crapcannon said:

For my next skill I might invest in camo and maybe even exterior camo. Damn thing get's outspotted by everything!

Camo skill is useless. You get same advantage from paint as from 50% overall camo skill...repairs 1st, BIA 2nd, then gun handling perks...camo is 4th skill, and not on all ppl - recon is more useful, as well as driver skills. 

In camo wars if you have tank with bad camo, you gain more by raising your view range, than by using the camo skill. Especially on a tank with so pathetic alpha - you are forced to shoot continuously, either already spotted, or to Chai snipe out of view range  - your best bet on survival.

Back in a day of vision meta, i carried rammer+binos+optics. Optics to prevent me from being outspotted on the move, and binos to chai-snipe on assault mode. Today, probably ramm,  opt+vents or opt+egld. Omitting optics for binos is possible if you have silid crew - most maps you are either CQC, or chai snipe like sand river/prok/karelia...

generally, try to vision kite tier 6-7 heavies, of russian origin IS-3s too are quite blind. 

Since IS-3 hd remodel, you need gold to pen it at range...

Use your turret "armor" as advantage. Armor thickness is bad, but it prepares you to the playstyle of E 50/M. bad turret armor, but tiny target at range. I liked Schmalturm better than the bloated panther 2 turret - which is so easy to hit.

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On 9/15/2016 at 9:07 AM, Felicius said:

Camo skill is useless. You get same advantage from paint as from 50% overall camo skill...repairs 1st, BIA 2nd, then gun handling perks...camo is 4th skill, and not on all ppl - recon is more useful, as well as driver skills. 

In camo wars if you have tank with bad camo, you gain more by raising your view range, than by using the camo skill. Especially on a tank with so pathetic alpha - you are forced to shoot continuously, either already spotted, or to Chai snipe out of view range  - your best bet on survival.

Back in a day of vision meta, i carried rammer+binos+optics. Optics to prevent me from being outspotted on the move, and binos to chai-snipe on assault mode. Today, probably ramm,  opt+vents or opt+egld. Omitting optics for binos is possible if you have silid crew - most maps you are either CQC, or chai snipe like sand river/prok/karelia...

generally, try to vision kite tier 6-7 heavies, of russian origin IS-3s too are quite blind. 

Since IS-3 hd remodel, you need gold to pen it at range...

Use your turret "armor" as advantage. Armor thickness is bad, but it prepares you to the playstyle of E 50/M. bad turret armor, but tiny target at range. I liked Schmalturm better than the bloated panther 2 turret - which is so easy to hit.

Currently I have optics, and my commander has, 6th, BIA, situational awareness AND ~23% of recon. Other crew members have smooth ride, dead eye and snap shot. Learning to put myself in the right spots on certain maps to take advantage of it's range.

BTW, what is CQC?

Edit: just realized that Situational Awareness was turned off now that I selected Recon for the Commander. Guess I'll have to ditch recon for something else.

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CQC is close quarters combat, which you would tend to avoid with the Panther as your alpha really won't scare anything unless you can DPM it down from a distance. You had to have selected Sit awareness while the commander was in a Premium tank or before you trained him for the Panther, it has a dedicated Radio Operator and they always train Sit awareness. Always just look for a greyed out box and you can tell that another crew member should train that skill, and if you are grinding crews in a Premium, put them back in the original tank to select any new skills to keep from training something you can't use when they are in the regular tank. You can train both sit awareness and Recon providing the Commander is also the Radio Operator. But of course go with Sit first as it's 3% vs 2% for recon.

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Dead eye is useless. On that line go with BIA, rep, snapshot, camo as first 4 skills on gunner.

And finally, Panther has crap dpm. It is simply not good, why ppl are saying "Panther has low alpha, but it has dpm" T34 at tier 5 has much better dpm, even tier 4 T-28 has more.

Same tier Comet - another pew pew tank has better dpm, too, but it has mobility and gun depreession, even camo. Panther has what If you calculate first shot damage, T20 and T-34-1 have same dpm until at least 30 seconds of Panther staying in open and firing continuously.

Tiger has much better gun...and it is not much slower...along with some armor, and complete HE resistance to full pens )panther is vulnerable to 105 and 152 mm derps...and arty can one-shot you, while tiger gets just splash dmg.

Ditch the Panther, keep the Tiger. It snipes better, brawls better, and moves decently. Go to E 50 in the panther line, every tank before is crap, or meh.

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The L100 is a trap. There really is no need for the additional penetration over the L70: When every other T7 medium can do with ~150 penetration, then so can the Panther and you still end up with slightly superior penetration very good accuracy and, interestingly enough, pretty good dispersion-stats by T7 medium-standards (only the T20 outperforms the Panther's gun-soft-stats and this only because of being able to fit a vertical stabilizer, Comet is about on par with the VStab), not to mention the 2.1k DPM (third best in tier, I think).

Thing is, the Panther suffers from 2-2-meta. In a world where double-tapping 2 results in every other medium having the same (or better) penetration as the L/100-Panther has natively, there really is no reason to take the drawbacks you get for the high native penetration. Same is true for the Tiger II's 105 and, argueably, the E75 with the 128, though with the later at least the increased alpha offers an advantage that is worth being considered, in exchange for DPM.

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12 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

The L100 is a trap. There really is no need for the additional penetration over the L70: When every other T7 medium can do with ~150 penetration, then so can the Panther and you still end up with slightly superior penetration very good accuracy and, interestingly enough, pretty good dispersion-stats by T7 medium-standards (only the T20 outperforms the Panther's gun-soft-stats and this only because of being able to fit a vertical stabilizer, Comet is about on par with the VStab), not to mention the 2.1k DPM (third best in tier, I think).

Thing is, the Panther suffers from 2-2-meta. In a world where double-tapping 2 results in every other medium having the same (or better) penetration as the L/100-Panther has natively, there really is no reason to take the drawbacks you get for the high native penetration. Same is true for the Tiger II's 105 and, argueably, the E75 with the 128, though with the later at least the increased alpha offers an advantage that is worth being considered, in exchange for DPM.

You are dead right about the Panther and the 2-2 meta.

About the L 100, not so. If you go in a fight with l70 you still have crap mobility and  armor, with just minor improvements in DPM and gun handling, no ability to carry, still, but you lose the Chai sniping support role. L 70 loses efficiency beyond 300 m (unless you are in a Stug and you fire at 100 mm of armor), GG meeting IS3 even full gold you bounce more than 50%(and you go against them all the time), and every tier 9 heavy is invulnerable (except M103 and 50 120), and you can not even sell your skin for 600 dmg off T-54s.

200 dpm is not enough to sacrifice the l100. Your argument about 105 and 128 is also rather bad - exposure time matters on every German tank - KT with 88 has to aim more than with 105, you can not snapshot heavily armored targets + lower alpha = gets penned back. 128 is kinda derpy, but it goes right through IS-7 pike and e 100 turret face, something 105 apcr can rly dream about + it actually has an usable HE shell now in Grille/Skorp G infested meta.

If the l70 was a weapon on Comet it could work because flanking/hulldown/camo wars, but with Panther you have to stay as far from enemies as possible. 

And do not forget, Comet 77 mm has better acc than L70, but still feels derpy when you go against higher tiers. L 70 is a good weapon at tier 5, at tier 6 it is adequate, but well beyond the 85 mm, and at tier 7 it is a joke.

IRL Panther is long range sniper with superb frontal armor. In wot, it is squishy 1300 hp pinata for arty, and every tier 6 heavy with 300-700 alpha. 

Good way to fix the Panther would be putting it at about 2500 dpm, not higher than T-34-57, the Soviet laser gun at tier 4-5, but it would still be subpar to T-34-1, Comet and T20...despite those tanks not being OP in any way, just reasonably good in right mm...even they suffer from corridor meta and much better heavies than meds at tier 7-8.

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So I've decide to grind up to the E50 as it is a tank I've been wanting for some time and am on the Panther right now. I thought the VK prior to it was pretty decent actually but then was dreading the panther a bit since it's basically the same tank but at higher tier. However, this thing is really growing on me. You have to be extra careful and not be spotted as much as possible, and be opportunistic using your teammates spots as much as your own and put that DPM to use. I usually have good success with doing this and am currently averaging just about 3k WN8 after 30 games, however, what really gets me is how hard it is to do any carrying with this tank as my WR with it is like 39% only. I don't know how many times I've had great games damage-wise but still lose. It's like this tank really needs to be complimented with other heavier armored tanks, it simply cannot just do it on its own as much. It feels like this tank is suited for what is commonly referred to as Chai sniping which makes it rather limiting. Do I have the right evaluation of it? Anyone have any good tips for it?

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This tank.... Suddenly I remembered why I don't usually start grinds from below tier 8. Having to fight IS-3S, Defenders and not to mention tier9 heavies frontally is just breaking my will to grind the tank... 

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This tank was ok back during the vision days before they choked up every map. I can only imagine how bad it is at this point with the endless armor buffing of tier 8 heavies on top of the scale back of ranged engagements.

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Yeah, I can sing my praises of the mini-Panther (VK 3002 M) but this tank really just doesn't work. You can have as much view range as you want, but all the solid cover means that you're spotting tanks at 360m and the Panther doesn't exactly have great camo. Additionally, it's slower than the mini-Panther and slightly larger, with no increased armor for the tier, which makes you a big xp pinata.

I can still average my own HP in damage, but the tank is just a chore to get your damage out, because, even when top tier, you don't have the armor or alpha to really put the pressure on people. The biggest thing that would also fix the tank would be to simply give it better gun handling, because the Comet completely outclasses the Panther (mostly because Vstab and its APCR rounds).

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You guys make this sound like a free-XP sink . . . I cannot even imagine this tank trying to fight VK100.01, OHo, defender, Liberte, etc.  I guess I will learn the hard way - by watching my WR plummet while I struggle bus through it.

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I loved the Panther to bits back then but in World of Heavy Tanks the anemic alpha with still only mediocre dpm is simply not working - at all. On top of this the Panther is huge while the armor doesn't hold up except against low tiers that refuse to shoot gold...

The last thing I did before uninstalling WoT was three marking the Comet - here you have one dpm buzzsaw that works at tier VII because it is what the Panther isn't  - small, maneuverable, glorious gun depression and insane dpm.

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I played this tank a while ago, so my impressions aren't fully up to date, but to me this was probably the most fun tier 7 medium. My default plan was to find somewhere I could plant the front of my vehicle against a barrier, then shoot things from that position as much as possible. It worked pretty well at the time, and I way overperformed in this vehicle over the course of 149 booster-free battles. I wouldn't recommend skipping this tank. 

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On 8/7/2016 at 6:45 PM, HappyIittlecloud said:

I got to say, that I liked this tank. And I grinded the Tiger 2 and the Panther 2 from it. But the reason where the looks and the history. The main problem with it that everything about it is worse or okay compared to the other T7 tanks. Except the penetration, which is something the other tanks can get by pressing the two key. I still own the Comet and liked the T 43 (~60% WR) a lot, but never got the feeling that I needed a lot of premium ammo in them.

And honestly it just lacks the punch. My Comet has 2.5k dpm while my Panther was about 1.8k. The biggest weakness is the aimtime. The risk of waiting that long to tickle tanks is just noth worth it. And the mobility and size does not allow it to flank or harras as effectively. And while it can pen an IS-3 frontally you should not be in the front of an IS-3 in the first place.

Pretty sure my Panther was 2500+dpm, so I'm not exactly sure why you are missing 700 somewhere...

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1 hour ago, QuicksilverJPR said:

Pretty sure my Panther was 2500+dpm, so I'm not exactly sure why you are missing 700 somewhere...

It was buffed exactly one year ago in micropatch 9.17.1 by exactly 10% base dpm.

And there is no "yours Panther".

Right now it has 2,111.79 DPM. In comparing tanks you always use base dpm, since you can mount the same equipment on every other medium and get the same % bonus. before the buff it had 1919.81 DPM.

Still insufficient buff. Meta changes alone ditched the tank more than a pitiful buff could save.

8,8 cm Kw.K. 36 L/56 had received way more love over several buffs (along with the buffs to the wielders to a varying degree), and now is a potent weapon...in tier VI.

You can push the theoretical DPM to 2,558.57. So what? Comet in the same setup still gets 200 DPM more, and is (still) a better tank. Both are garbage...and I was a great fan of panther. Considered several times to rebuy, but in this meta, no chance. Even 240 alpha in that tier feels anemic.

But let's be honest, even in the times of vision (read camping) meta, you needed speed and/or camo, and this one has neither. besides, TDs wrecked mediums in pretty much every setup back then. RHM with 400 m base view range(some tier IV TDs had that much!) and better camo than it has now...after firing. Imagine E-25 camo after firing with 128 mm...

It was seal clubbing, since most tier 7 tanks sucked even worse than now. Now you can at least trade (and try to track), before you would lose half your hit points and never knew where from. Also, since the death of vision meta, arty is now cancerous to anyone, not just to meds and heavies that expose. TDs are getting their fair portion of skyshit. 

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It looks like it really wants food except it also looks like its made of kindling - 20% fire from a front mounted engine with no frontal armor . . . 

This and the Panther II are not giving me a great deal to look forward to. 

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25 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

It looks like it really wants food except it also looks like its made of kindling - 20% fire from a front mounted engine with no frontal armor . . . 

 

Not sure how you mean this, but you don't catch fire frontally anymore from the engine. It still has transmission "module" at the front, and you can get engine damaged through that, but not engine fire. Fuel tanks are also in the back as far as I'm aware.

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900 dpg is teal in this thing . . . .

It has a role thats no longer needed and it does not have the tools to fulfill that role even if it was needed.

- OK, so whats up with this thing, I'm supposed to have 0.30 accuracy and 198 pen, but my hit rate in this POS is abysmal and I consistently bounce side shots on IS, LTG, and M10 in last game, just bounces for days.  I'm not trying to tinfoil hat this, but FFS this gun feels like such a lie. 

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