Flametz

WoWS General Patch Discussion (currently 0.6.0)

3,654 posts in this topic

RDF is broken, deeply. Thing is, most good players do not need it, despite it giving valueable information that you wouldn't have otherwise. Most often, you can deduce where the enemy is and the one case where you can not but absolutely need to, you have other means of bypassing your situational blindness: Radar, Hydros, Planes spotting behind the island you are about to round or the smokescreen you are about to go through. I still remember a time when good BB-players specifically didn't take Sixth Sense as it didn't really give any info you didn't already have (BBs are almost always spotted all over the map), just to get the skillpoint into something else and I do expect many good players to do just that again. Everyone else will, however and it gives them information that they would have no chance to get otherwise. This is mainly why the skill is a problem and a "need to have" and also so broken.

What I haven't seen so far is, how does the skill act, when you are in the same quadrant as the closest enemy. E.g. like when you are about to round an island.

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I agree with Madner Kami 100%

I probably won't use RDF, especially on ships with radar scout planes and Hydro.

A 1 point skill like Priority Target can be just as useful while saving 3 points better used elsewhere.

It just seems kind of redundant other than showing what direction they are in and if they are moving.  You already have Sixth Sense and know if you are spotted or not, and in most cases you know generally where the enemy should be.

Maybe if you are one of those reckless players who barrels into island groups where DDs are probably lurking all the time you may need it, but your chances of success there are slim to none anyways.

It can be useful vs DD's British CA's and Russian CA's that park in smoke all the time, but blind firing torpedo barrages into smoke is already a viable means of attack.

The biggest advantage I can see overall is probably endgame play where there are only a handful or less ships on either team and it becomes more of a cat and mouse game.

 

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How come hydro can reach around an island? Its a sonar ping, which is linear from the source, is it not?

 

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Echoes?  ..... Echoes?  .... Echoes? ....

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9 minutes ago, SoliDeoGloria said:

How come hydro can reach around an island? Its a sonar ping, which is linear from the source, is it not?

 

 

8 minutes ago, xWulffx said:

Echoes?  ..... Echoes?  .... Echoes? ....

Radar does the same thing. The reason why they both do it is because WG is full of programmers that are lazy bastards.

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Lazy Bastards.

 

It's like a Lada assembly line, only instead of disgruntled workers not tightening all the screws on the cylinder heads, it's QA douches watching cute kitten videos on youtube instead of play testing the game properly.

 

Kittens .....

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With hydrophones, you can actually listen around corners in reality. Sure locating the exact position isn't that easy or possible, but you'd know a ship is there if it emits noise sitting behind an island (and it does do that, as long as the engines are running, even if the ship sits still). See, ingame they rolled passive listening (hydrophones) and active echo-location aka ASDIC/sonar (the famous ping) into one thing (though that doesn`t make a whole lot of sense). The sounds associated do imply active sonar to some degree, but that simply wouldn't be possible on some ships, as the germans, for example, didn't have access to active echo-location until after the war, nor would active echo location be particularly useful in detecting surface targets for various reasons.

Theoretically it would be possible to use ASDIC/sonar to locate targets "around" the corner the same way you can use a mirror to spy around a corner. As long as there is a reflective surface you can utilize, you can bounce the "ping" off of it and use the same surface to catch the echo-signals. This would equal spying around a corner with a broken mirror, which is also smeared with dirt. You are not going to see much, but you could feasibly, albeit unlikely, get a hint of something being there.

There is, by the way, a bunch of recordings of a hydrophone placed in the Marianna Trench's Challenger Deep, the deepest known place in the Earth`s oceans at almost 11km. You can easily hear surface-ships passing over it and it is not an on-/off-sound that one would possibly expect (aka the sound of the ship only being audible when directly above, but you can actually hear a raising and ebbing sound, as the sound is reflected by the trench's walls, similar to what you could expect when "listening around corners" in our case).

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Personal milestone moment. After taking six months off from the game and returning, I've finally now managed to drag my 30 day sample above my long-term rating. It's taken a disturbing amount of time get back to my previous level of suckitude. Though weirdly, I'm doing it much more in cruisers than BBs these days. Yet, at the same time, Warspite has overtaken the Izumo as my 'key vehicle'.

Stats, who knows?

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The only thing I know that will thwart sonar are thermoclines and salineclines which affect the water density and submarines can hide in it, but I don't think surface vessels can take advantage of it.

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17 minutes ago, xWulffx said:

The only thing I know that will thwart sonar are thermoclines and salineclines which affect the water density and submarines can hide in it, but I don't think surface vessels can take advantage of it.

Those can be defeated by a vessel mounted towed sonar array or a helicopter mounted dipping sonar.

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tested Akizuki with IFHE... its a must have, you basically get normal HE and if you run DE you only lose 1% fire change.

this is on live, most of those HE hits are on Tirpitz

F7HQDSy.jpg

test server with DE and IFHE, btw fires are low cause training room (afk bots) plus just shooting at superstructure

BuIHK4l.jpg

you murder DD's, they cant angle anymore. Build does sacrifice .3 seconds on rate of fire (big deal) and extra smoke or vigilance, but the damage you can do is more then worth it i think.

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Yeah that buff to +30% pen seemed nice .... thought it might be OP before but now ... wow

It would be brutal on an Atlanta

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3 hours ago, xWulffx said:

Yeah that buff to +30% pen seemed nice .... thought it might be OP before but now ... wow

only really useful on Akizuki and maybe 150-155m cruisers, anything else is kinda pointless

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Is the base HE pen on 100 -139 mm guns insufficient?

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I'd hazard a guess and say, that 100mm guns gain, due to them then being able to exceed the 19mm/20mm-mark with HEAP. 139s exceed the 25mm mark. Most thinly armored parts on any ship, are either 19mm or 25mm. 150 and 155mm guns exceed 25mm already and the next threshold beyond the 25mm-mark is 40mm in my experience, which is beyond the range of what HEAP can boost 150s up to. Mind you, that is assuming that the general caliber/6 = penetration rule is true. We know there are some outliers (like german battleship-HE apparently), where the skill might have additional applications in specific case-by-case scenarios.

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I get countless HE bounces with the Kutuzov's 155's when dropping plunging HE rounds onto battleships at long range.  I suppose many of them are hitting turret tops , but most seem to be landing directly onto superstructure.  I will often alternate HE and AP just to get damage in while waiting to start fires. I will definitely experiment with it once the update drops.  While what Madner Kami is saying makes complete sense, my experience with WG is that there are always some things that you have to try for yourself because of hidden values they "accidentally" leave into their modeling.

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Most higher tier battleships have 32 (e.g. bow and aft section roof of Montana) or even 38mms of deck-armor (e.g. center deck on Montana). 150-155s do not pen that naturally. I guess that is where your "bounces" (for lack of a better word) come from. Now, HEAP allows your 150-155s to penetrate 32mm of armor, but 37 to 38 is still out of the question. That is why 150-155s are an edge-case. Normally you have little control over where your shells land, unless you are rather close, so you are usually going to aim center-mass, resulting in hits on 37-38mm of armor, which HEAP still doesn't pen. However, if RNG or the situation allow you to get close to enough to aim properly without getting annihilated, you can do some silly damage to a lot if high-tier battleships. Ironically enough, assuming that penetration adds fire-chance in a given section (there is conflicting info on this issue), this would be the holy grail to counter the new fire-fighting skill, as setting the bow or stern of battleships ablaze would've never been easier.

On the other hand, the difference between the damage of AP and HE is big enough on 150s already, that anything you would penetrate with a HEAP-shell, would actually be a better target for AP instead, that is, if we are talking about battleships as targets. Cruisers on the other hand, where you risk overpens... But then we are talking about the thresholds I was mentioning in my earlier post to begin with. HEAP wouldn't help 150-HE in most cases against those targets. 150s are wierd in that regard and, together with 180s, probably the highest caliber where HEAP still serves a purpose (in general).

P.S.: Checking the ingame armor-viewer again, I realize I remembered some numbers wrong. I probably shouln't post anymore past 3am -.-

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Fnord disc wrote a good post on this on Reddit that I'll look for later. 

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I know have five 10 point german captains..... 2 emdens, 2 prinz potato and 1 graf spee

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1 hour ago, Crossfader said:

I know have five 10 point german captains..... 2 emdens, 2 prinz potato and 1 graf spee

I have at least ten of them.

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3 hours ago, How_Terrible said:

I have at least ten of them.

Santa box addiction confirmed

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22 minutes ago, Crossfader said:

Santa box addiction confirmed

Yeah, I spent around $190 on the boxes.

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1 hour ago, Crossfader said:

raw

Between the 8 - 10 people that I regularly division with there was probably $1,500+ spent on the gifts.

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3 hours ago, How_Terrible said:

Between the 8 - 10 people that I regularly division with there was probably $1,500+ spent on the gifts.

not judging, spent 100$ on boxes myself

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