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Guardian54

Need help with 704 in current maps/meta

37 posts in this topic

Right now I'm at 90 matches, 44.44% wins, 74.74% hit rate, only 1.5 damage ratio due to super aggro instead of constant bushwanking, 0.42 armor-use efficiency, 2042 DPG. I think that 2042 DPG should translate to about 48-50% win rate given how early in most matches I do my damage, but I suppose in pubs 3 minutes is far too long for most heavies to survive.

Those numbers scream over aggressiveness to me.

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Had a look at the replays you provided, couldn't do it earlier due to lack of internetz.

 

From what I see in the replays, the problems you have with the tank are mostly because of (a) bad positioning resulting in no damage, bad trades or death and (b) because of bad angling. Just a few examples:

 

  • Your 5k damage carry on Steppes: While choosing the better flank, your initial position is not good because it risks getting flanked from above; the fact that this didn't happen was because the enemies were dumb. Moreover, when trying to shoot a crossing t8 heavy, you exposed your tank to all (!!!!) enemies on your flank. Like, all of those enemies could've shot you. The fact that you survived this encounter is only attributable to the trollish armor of the 704 and really bad enemies.
  • On Abbey, you initially try to go hulldown behind the wreck of an E8. The IS-7 simply pens your shoulder - nothing odd about it - and the JPZ only crits on your side which is lucky. Getting flanked by the IS-7 is your fault. You knew you had mediocre teammates and the Leo PTA was in a position from which he could only spot the IS-7 when it would be too late already.
  • In both Stalingrad games, you moved out of position which doesn't work in a turretless TD. Against the T54E1, you kept your armor flat towards him even though he shot AP. Given the low AP pen but very good intra-clip reload of the T54E1, you should have known that reversing back into cover even without your excuse of a wiggle would take too long. Instead, you should have angled your tank for real and counted on bouncing 2 shots of his, then using his reload to get back to safety. In general, you should work on your angling.

    In the other game you first wreck the 7/1 which is nice but then get greedy against the China med and get punished accordingly. You overexposed, plain and simple.

  • On Fjords, you play a decent game until your last attack which was greedy again. In general, you seem to make a point of providing multiple enemies with shots on you, for whatever reason, instead of making sure to only get shot by one tank at most and if at all...
  • On Lakeville standard, you simply missed good shooting opportunities. Granted, you lack of vision hurt you in the beginning but having a look at the replay, you just didn't get the timing right. In the end, against the E4, you shot at his turret front, not the side and given the range, you got unlucky. In the encounter game, autoaiming against the E75 didn't work well because you hit the rock thing in front of you etc., just manually aim it next time. Also, you knew the WT was sitting in the back and he finally got you as was to be expected.

In general, I see a tank that is still perfectly fine, bounces a lot of stuff and has an amazing gun, i.e. a 704 that is still among the best t9 TDs out there. The reason for your difficulties is found in your gameplay. While you are a decent player, you show suboptimal positioning, timing, overexposing and lack of angling. You seem to be rather impatient at times, too. What amazes me in general is the habit of telling your enemies about your equipment, notifying them when your own teammates are badly positioned etc. Maybe that's how it goes on the US servers, I don't know about it.

 

That said, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to make this tank work because you are a decent player after all and should be able to improve.

 

The odd thing about that IS-7 penning my shoulder was that in my previous Abbey match on 704, that tiny shoulder piece got penned twice in a row by another hull-down IS-7. Once, sure, 3 times in a row without even a single miss... curse you Soviet heavy lasers.

 

And on Murovanka I went full retard instead of remembering I was not actually that slow in top speed and could have gone around them, I remember.

 

Sometimes when things are so abysmal that you know you're dead anyhow you just want it to be over faster without quitting the match or committing suicide. When all the top tier heavies rush valley is one of those times, you might as well ask the enemy to finish it faster. I don't think I take matches quite seriously enough and am too prone to telling the enemy to report someone, because placebos (the WG fake report buttons) feel good.

 

The main reason I use autoaim a lot in it is due to the ridiculous micro-lag that's been there since 9.7 started causing me to miss more than a few manually-aimed shots.

 

T54E1 has 210 AP, so unless he was aiming on my shoulder (most would not aim there on a 704 as they think of it as a stalinium troll zone) then the front and side plate angles there should have bounced him, maybe I was just looking at it wrong or have the UFP angle wrong... it's 55 from vertical, right? Should have charged into the enemies' butts instead for cover (and gotten probably another shot off/distracted them). Also, I do not remember my T54E1 ever penning 704s frontally with even slight angle on flat ground at more than facehug ranges without aiming for LFP, so I assumed I was safe. Not sure if he was shooting APCR though, because with APCR the 54E1 is very strong indeed... ah who cares anyhow.

 

Sure, the vehicle is manageable after I cooled my head and went Foch for a couple games and relearnt patience a bit (played mediums and then E-75/WZ-111 1-4 for WAY too much before the 704 grind started methinks, now if I'd played T95 right before it I'd be in less trouble dealing with inferior mobility), but it is incredibly tedious compared to Foch which can at least haul ass (not to mention the semi-reliable front armor... excluding the top tumours). However, for Friday's standards those games were very, very typical (except the "finally earned Ace" one) because I wasn't trying to play as smoothly as I could to get good replays to try to whine about the vehicle, so much as just play as normal (if not slightly less patient) and see what critiques there are... see if there's some way to fix my lack of patience that kicks in whenever driving a slow (at least, slow-turning) casemate with low gun arc. I swear the Tortoise was jesus-esque in comparison...

 

Things are slowly beginning to improve, up to 46.3% now with 95 games :P

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To me it also sounds like you try to force every vehicle into a certain play style, regardless of whether or not it is able to be played that way and regardless of what its actual strengths are.

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To me it also sounds like you try to force every vehicle into a certain play style, regardless of whether or not it is able to be played that way and regardless of what its actual strengths are.

 

Most likely. Been working on it though and things are looking up for the 704.

 

... And now I'm getting a long string of horrible games in the WZ 111 1-4.

 

I swear, back when I'd play every tank I'm grinding for the double every day my mind wasn't this inflexible and stiff... but then again back then I gamed more and wrote less fanfiction.

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downvoted because didn't bother to learn how to use google to search forum. 

 

Upvoted because I have sympathy for everyone who tries to use the crappy IP Board forum search : )

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You better stop the grind now since the 704 is considered better these days than the 268 and I have my doubt you will have fun with the tier X. It's basically the same thing only with even less gun depression, less gun traverse to the sides, and much slower shell velocity.

 

And yes, even the SU-122-54 is probably superior in the current meta.

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You better stop the grind now since the 704 is considered better these days than the 268 and I have my doubt you will have fun with the tier X. It's basically the same thing only with even less gun depression, less gun traverse to the sides, and much slower shell velocity.

 

And yes, even the SU-122-54 is probably superior in the current meta.

 

Acknowledged. Am currently only doing dailies in it, if that. Starting to think grinding KV-4 dailies would be more productive... E-75 is a no-brainer in terms of being the X being more useful lol.

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Trying to be a good citizen and not starting a new thread...pretty major necro as a result.

Not sure what the playstyle is the for the 704.  Slower than ISU, lacks the impenetrability of the doom turtle, still has the BL-10.  Doesn't seem to have the accuracy to kemp bush, but it seems to be too easy to pen to play as a full-on assault gun.  Maybe I'm playing it too aggressively - trying to support heavies where possible, hide my lfp, but still seems like I get shot through the superstructure surprisingly often.  Would appreciate any tips/replays.

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On 7/1/2018 at 4:34 PM, Tanager said:

Trying to be a good citizen and not starting a new thread...pretty major necro as a result.

Not sure what the playstyle is the for the 704.  Slower than ISU, lacks the impenetrability of the doom turtle, still has the BL-10.  Doesn't seem to have the accuracy to kemp bush, but it seems to be too easy to pen to play as a full-on assault gun.  Maybe I'm playing it too aggressively - trying to support heavies where possible, hide my lfp, but still seems like I get shot through the superstructure surprisingly often.  Would appreciate any tips/replays.

Just look for 1 vs 1s. Even early on you will find enemies in positions where they have no support but they will be afraid to push and circle you like the el haluf corner meds park at. You go there. Trade 700 for 240/390/400. If you can't you camp a bit early on and when the teams settle in their positions you either see if trading spots are available or you support from the 2nd line conserving hp for late game one shot fiesta. 704 is not as good as it was 1.5 year ago but with that alpha and with the armor that will troll enemies it should still work well. 3 shots not done when the game is already decided and you should have 55-59% WR depending on luck, who you shoot, where you are and other minor stuff. 

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On 7/1/2018 at 10:34 PM, Tanager said:

Trying to be a good citizen and not starting a new thread...pretty major necro as a result.

Not sure what the playstyle is the for the 704.  Slower than ISU, lacks the impenetrability of the doom turtle, still has the BL-10.  Doesn't seem to have the accuracy to kemp bush, but it seems to be too easy to pen to play as a full-on assault gun.  Maybe I'm playing it too aggressively - trying to support heavies where possible, hide my lfp, but still seems like I get shot through the superstructure surprisingly often.  Would appreciate any tips/replays.

704 doesn't have an accuracy stat - just an RNG stat. You hit improbable shots and miss nigh-certain ones. Spray and pray during early game. Play with camo and the element of surprise in the mid game and basically outvision things in lategame. When forced, trade. You are good at it, just inconsistent.

It's not as good a tank as the best in Tier 9, but it does have a role and is damn good at it at least 50% of the time.

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