StranaMechty

Safe Stowage Effectiveness

29 posts in this topic

Contrary to what the wiki says, modules do not necessarily turn yellow when they hit 50% HP, as detailed in http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/1566-for-questions-about-crew-skills-equipment-and-modules/&do=findComment&comment=454376. What actually happens is that modules have a base HP amount and a natural regen point. So long as the module does not go below this regen point it will not appear damaged, once you pass that point it becomes yellow.

This regen point isn't the same for all modules, either. Ammo racks seem to hover around 60-70% of the normal max HP. The Type 59 has a regen point of 100 HP, and a max HP of 170 (58.8%). The JP E-100 has a regen point of 190 HP and a max of 280 (67.9%). These values seem to vary per tank and will need to be looked up through software like Tank Inspector or WoT Knowledgebase (or tanks.gg, an excellent website). Some regen values are at 50%, possibly the origin for this particular belief.

This narrower-than-expected window means safe stowage may not be as useful as one would otherwise expect. Consequently I've made a spreadsheet (what a shock!). Here you can input the tank's max HP and regen point. In addition to giving you the average, minimum, and maximum module damage rolls of every gun caliber in the game, it will tell you what calibers safe stowage will provide a benefit against. Keep in mind this only matters if a round succeeds in its 27% (or 30% with deadeye) chance to damage the rack in the first place.

Spreadsheet. - Make a copy for yourself and you can check out any tank you desire.

To explain what you're seeing, here I have used the Type 59 as an example vehicle. The sheet is saying that safe stowage protects against...

Ammo rack damage by

  • Average roll of a 57mm
  • Minimum rolls of 75-88mm guns
  • Maximum rolls of 45-50mm guns

Ammo rack destruction by

  • Average rolls of 128-139.7mm guns
  • Minimum rolls of 170-182.9mm guns
  • Maximum rolls of 105 and 107mm guns

So, it's not a stellar perk, but I think in light of the dearth of useful loader-specific skills, it's worthwhile considering it. I should mention that I don't know if the regen point is buffed by safe stowage, but Tank Inspector says it is not and I've no reason to disbelieve it. Wouldn't make much sense for it to be anyway (though when has that ever mattered?).

As an aside, the British 20pdr guns break the mold and have more module damage than you would expect from their caliber, possibly an arbitrary bonus given for balance purposes.

Edit: I was fighting with the Google Sheets conditional formatting rules for a while, let me know if you see something wrong with the setup.

Edit 2: The sheet is written in such a way that you can alter cell H4 to use formula "=H2*1.5" if you want to see how wet ammo rack stacks up instead of safe stowage. I may go back at some point and add it as its own feature later, but for now I really don't want to re-do the conditional formatting rules.

Edit 3: Took the easy way out and added a WAR sheet. Might make work on a combo later.

Edit 4: Combo sheet added.

Edit 5: Updated for 9.18 artillery module damage changes.

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Good read. +1

lgCc386.gif

 

Also, I consider anyone fool when not using the safe stowage, useful perk since all other loader perks are bad.

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useful perk since all other loader perks are bad.

 

That's pretty much my view of it, though I now feel a bit better about passing on it with my BatChat for more immediate needs like camo and gun handling.

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Bat is more specific case. I'd rather leave out safe stowage on it for 2 major reasons:

  • Don't get hit(well, you go on clean-up some time, but that has to be done and it's late game stage that is won)
  • Hasn't got dedicated loader

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I can kinda see how the British guns have better module damage,especially with their DPM,HESH, and 183. With their DPM,it's just bound to happen honestly.

 

Definitely +1, but to be honest doesn't make much of a difference cause all those good loader skills :^)

 

But everything else helps, and this is the first (at least that I've read) very detailed ammorack mechanics description.

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I can kinda see how the British guns have better module damage,especially with their DPM,HESH, and 183. With their DPM,it's just bound to happen honestly.

 

It's only the 20pdr gun that beats other calibers, and it doesn't have anything to do with DPM, HESH, or the 183 (that gun behaves normally).

 

Shell type does not change the average module damage, though it can effect how many modules are hit simultaneously.

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What the other said, but I'm interested in the difference between HE/HESH and "regular" ammo. I think I read on this forum somewhere there's no difference.

 

Does the damage get divided into the different modules or do they all receive as much damage?

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Yeah, I came to this conclusion myself when I needed to answer someone's question about safe stowage. It honestly kind of sucks for most tanks. Like Strana said, it'd be much better if modules went yellow at 50% - but they don't.

 

Safe Stowage is probably the best choice if you have an empty 100% perk available... assuming you've already gotten camo, repairs, and BIA. I might even argue that it's worse than Adrenaline Rush some tanks. Of course, at the end of the day all three options suck and are fairly unlikely to hand you a win often enough to make a noticeable impact in your performance.

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It's only the 20pdr gun that beats other calibers, and it doesn't have anything to do with DPM, HESH, or the 183 (that gun behaves normally).

 

Shell type does not change the average module damage, though it can effect how many modules are hit simultaneously.

Sorry, misread that then :/ Thanks though :)

 

Also Rexxie, I think Adrenaline Rush would be better on high reload tanks?

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What the other said, but I'm interested in the difference between HE/HESH and "regular" ammo. I think I read on this forum somewhere there's no difference.

 

Does the damage get divided into the different modules or do they all receive as much damage?

 

I'm not 100% on this, but my operating presumption is that it's similar to how HE damage is dealt against tanks normally. Distance and armor will serve to decrease the damage, but it can be applied to multiple items simultaneously and damage taken by Target A is not considered when calculating damage taken by Target B, barring any rule Wargaming may have implemented about killing more than X crew per shot (I thought I heard about something like that but am not certain on the details).

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Sorry, misread that then :/ Thanks though :)

 

Also Rexxie, I think Adrenaline Rush would be better on high reload tanks?

 

No matter what your reload is, you're getting the same %DPM benefit from adrenaline rush. It's better for tanks with high HP and for tanks that can take advantage of their DPM quite well.

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Nice work.  Anecdotally it certainly feels like SS noticeably helps reduce ammo rack damage.  It's surprising that it looks like it has so little effect on paper.  I wonder if SS has an effect on the 27% chance for critical damage?

 

Also, for the record...

Safe Stowage - Loader
The Loader stacks the shells in such a way that they do not come into contact with each other. The result is simulated as an increase in ammo rack durability of 12.5%. If two Loaders have the perk, the effect is not cumulative. The perk is cumulative with the increased ammo rack durability that comes with using a "Wet" Ammo Rack.

 

"Wet" Ammo Rack Class   +50% Ammo Rack hit points.

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Safe Stowage is the only perk I deem nearly as important as Sixth Sense.  I always get it as soon as possible.

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I wonder if SS has an effect on the 27% chance for critical damage?

 

Negative. Backend XML is very specific about the difference between HP and crit %.

 

Isnt tank Inspector dead ?

 

Maybe kind of. You can still pull up the details page for a tank, which is what you're looking for in this instance.

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Safe Stowage is the only perk I deem nearly as important as Sixth Sense.  I always get it as soon as possible.

This. After playing the German line, it was a necessity to use it. As all of the side armour is a big "shoot here for a big bang!" On 90% of German tanks.

I really noticed the difference when running a Cromwell with and without Safe Stowage. To me, it feels like the best dedicated loader perk. After that, camo, BiA and repairs are the best perks to get.

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No matter what your reload is, you're getting the same %DPM benefit from adrenaline rush. It's better for tanks with high HP and for tanks that can take advantage of their DPM quite well.

 

But if you have a 20s base reload you have less of a chance of not eating another shot and dying before the reload is up than if you have a 10s base reload and might win the reload race

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Yea. Goes both ways though - say you need to decloak between each shot. In that situation adrenaline rush does less for a 6 sec reload tank than a 12 sec reload tank. It's just identical when it comes to DPM benefit, there are other reasons why a slower/faster reload might be preferable.

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My AMX 50 100 is on 3 skills. I have BIA/SS/repair on the radioman/loader. Does this mean BIA/repair/situational awareness would be better?

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My AMX 50 100 is on 3 skills. I have BIA/SS/repair on the radioman/loader. Does this mean BIA/repair/situational awareness would be better?

I would say no, because the 50 100 modules are so fragile as is and the tank is paper, you'll usually have to use rep kit for tracks or otherwise, so any less of a chance of getting your ammo rack damaged (which is detrimental to autoloaders), the better.

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Had safe stowage previously with original crew on Conqueror. Did not help and ended up using more repair kits than ever. That crew is now with the FV215b.

My new Conqueror loader doesn't have safe stowage but instead gave the tank wet ammo rack. Hardly ever get ammo racked now.

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In my experience SS doesn't really help with ammo rack damage, but it does help with it blowing entirely.

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Why are people discussing this?

 

Not blowing up occasionally due to SS > blowing up because you don't have one.

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Because "not blowing up due to SS" might never happen during the entire time you own the vehicle because of how poor the skill is. The skill is 50% placebo.

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A while back I changed my FCM loader to adrenaline rush since my AMX radioman has SS. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Anyway, I don't think I've had my ammo rack blow a single time since changing the loader. My completely anecdotal evidence favors the placebo theory. ;)

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