catak

M4A3E8 vs M4A3E2

65 posts in this topic

I'm torn between which tank I should get. The E2 has great defense for a medium tank so I'm thinking I should go with that.

If anyone has either of these tanks and can give me feedback on either, that would be great

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E8 is better.

The E2 used to be competitive with the E8 when it still had 105mm HEAT. After that was removed, it was just worse. Then they also nerfed the turret armor on the E2's elite turret, making it completely unusable if you want to be anything other than a gimped E8.

So, yeah, that's the current state of affairs. You either use horrendously weak weapons like 105mm HE or the M1A1 and deal with having no view range, or you throw on the elite turret and have a turret that's not just weak, but (much) weaker than the E8's, making the vehicle feel like a huge downgrade.

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If you're planning on sticking to the US medium line than the E8 is really the only way to go. If you're hoping to branch off into the T29 then I would suggest actually going through the T1 and M6 lines because they are worthwhile prep for the T29 both in terms of researching modules and getting a feel for hull down heavy tank play. Hope this helps!

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21 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

The E2 used to be competitive with the E8 when it still had 105mm HEAT. After that was removed, it was just worse. Then they also nerfed the turret armor on the E2's elite turret, making it completely unusable if you want to be anything other than a gimped E8.

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IMO 101/350 should still be adequate against the ubiquitous Cromwells and the like.

But yeah, as a general-purpose MT, E8 is probably better. The E2 is more like a curiosity that can troll heavies with dat stock turret yo.

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19 minutes ago, Rodrigopine said:

If you're planning on sticking to the US medium line than the E8 is really the only way to go. If you're hoping to branch off into the T29 then I would suggest actually going through the T1 and M6 lines because they are worthwhile prep for the T29 both in terms of researching modules and getting a feel for hull down heavy tank play. Hope this helps!

This would be my advice too. I love my E8 - pretty agile, great aim and aim time, fast reload, great turret (hull down in this is super fun). I don't have the E2, but when I play against it it seems very slow and I never really have trouble penning (even without gold ammo). As for the T29, I was very happy to have gone the heavy route for that to help unlock critical upgrades. So the E2 does not seem to be particularly useful for the either medium line or the heavy line - and the E8 is confirmed to be a fun play. Lastly, my favorite tank in the game now is the Pershing and imho the E8 and the Pershing have similar play-styles (so good practice). Good luck!

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Here's something a friend wrote on the subreddit (not me):

Quote

How did you play the M4, and how would you like to improve your Sherman experience? Would you like increased mobility and a better gun? E8. Would you like increased armor at the cost of mobility? E2. More importantly, which gun did you prefer to use? The 76mm, or the 105mm? If you liked the 76mm playstyle, go for the E8. The E2 suits the 105mm better.

As my clan can attest, I love my E2 ("Jumbo"). However, there is a glaring problem: the mobility. It's slow as dicks, and because it's so slow, anything the Jumbo can do while fully upgraded, the E8 does it better. The 101mm of well sloped frontal hull armor protects you from tier 6 tanks with little guns (Cromwell, light tanks barring VK 28.01), but does fuck all to protect from some of the bigger guns in tier (O-I, KV-2, T-150...), and some tanks know to just load gold and pen your hull. The E8, on the other hand, trades off being able to deflect small-caliber guns with its frontal armor for much improved speed and mobility, retains the 12 degrees of gun depression from the M4, and can effectively use the top 76mm gun.

The reason I love Jumbo is because of the stock turret. It adds a ton of weight (not literally, the stock turret is only 600kg heavier, which affects its acceleration, but makes you slightly more lethal for rams, if given the opportunity), lowers your health (730 stock vs 760 top), and drastically lowers your view range (330 stock vs 370 top), all in exchange for a very, very meaty turret. 152mm of armor all around the turret (including Commanders cupola) in addition to a very good mantlet (91mm of spaced armor over the 152mm of turret, 177mm of spaced armor over a 0mm hole in the armor) and very few "flat" bits from the front. Using the stock turret limits your choices to the guns the M4 Sherman has. The 76mm M1A1 has the same damage and penetration values as the 76mm M1A2 gun, with worse handling and reload. I personally prefer the 105mm derp cannon, because it's annoying, it does tons of module and crew damage, and a lot tanks can't deal with a hull-down monster lobbing HE shells every 6.75 seconds in their general direction. It's not terribly effective against tier 8 tanks, but that is a common problem of tanks without mobility.

Jumbo, played like that, is a difficult tank to play if you don't know hulldown tactics, or which tanks you can bully with your armor and gun. The E8 is much more comfortable to play, and teaches you how to ridgeline snipe (an important skill for the Pershing) while not being able to rely on your armor (an important skill for the T20)

And most importantly, if you go to the T29 from the Sherman Jumbo without playing the M6 or T20, you're a liability to your team. Get the 90mm from either source, or free exp it.

 

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Ah, the age-old question.

Playing the E8 will foster good habits and teach you way more than the E2, since it plays like a true medium that can flank (meh pen forces you to do that sometimes) while having good mobility and soft stats that facilitate outplaying your opponents. 

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E2 is easier to play, but has a much lower skill ceiling.  
Its armor is relevant against many tier 6s and some tier 7s.  But as people have said, the Easy 8 suffers far less against the tanks that are going to pen anyways. 

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I had the same dilemma and went through the E2.

Never having tried the E8 I can only comment on the E2:

- Top turret gives better DPM and view range with the 76mm, but since its such a slow POS you're still gimped. Pen is still so bad you need to flank yet you're toooo slow to do so.

- Bottom turret gives a decent mantlet to troll but Stevie Wonder would outspot you. Even with sunglasses on. At night. It also gimps your DPM.

- Bottom turret + 105 with HE can work for shits and giggles but you can't really call it a carry machine.

I unlocked the T29 so far, 44k away from the T20. I like derping so the last combo is what I'm running. It can be fun, but if you want the T20 I'd go through the E8 from what I've seen, and for the T29 go through the heavies. If you're cheap like me, the E2 can get you through the grind but don't expect miracles!

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I played the E2 on a friend's account, and it was fun, slower then I like. Hull was pretty trolly. E8 is just really fantastic though, I bounce between it, my Crommies, and my newly re-acquired A-43. They are all just so much fun in Stronks.

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12 minutes ago, catak said:

How do you get to the T29 without grinding the E2?

Go up the heavy line from the T1 HT to the M6 to the T29.

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The E2 is a steaming turd compared to the E8, the E8 is arguably the best tier 6 med (up there with crommy) its mobile, has great gun handling and if your prepared to throw a little gold is competitive against everything it sees. The E2's armor is useful against other 6's... sometimes... otherwise its got nothing.

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The E2 is hands down better than the E8.  The armor is useful against any tank it sees if you can hull-down, and the derp lets you deal damage to any tank you can hit.

The E8 isn't bad, but it has inferior mobility and firepower to the T-34-85 and Cromwell.  I'm loathe to sell mine, but it doesn't get driven much.

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If you want a little less opinion based answer to your question, here's E8/E2 winrate vs player winrate:

 

Spoiler

mlmHCWE.png

 

Basically, it's what you'd expect. Neither tank is that bad, the E8 is at least slightly better for practically any player. E2's ceiling caps out once you reach ~51-52% winrate overall, after that the tank starts performing worse and worse for you relative to your winrate. On the high end, E8 is far superior.

(server winrate stats also say E8 > E2, if my point hasn't been made)

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19 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

If you want a little less opinion based answer to your question, here's E8/E2 winrate vs player winrate:

 

Hidden Content

 

Basically, it's what you'd expect. Neither tank is that bad, the E8 is at least slightly better for practically any player. E2's ceiling caps out once you reach ~51-52% winrate overall, after that the tank starts performing worse and worse for you relative to your winrate. On the high end, E8 is far superior.

(server winrate stats also say E8 > E2, if my point hasn't been made)

Wow, it actually looks like the E2 is slightly overpowered, and the E8 is grossly overpowered, if I'm reading the WR curves right.

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E8 is showcase that little things count. It's not one trick pony, but it does have bunch of little upsides that make it viable in almost every situation. It's not best tank out there, but it's pretty comfy. I'd certainly put it above E2 Jumbo.

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53 minutes ago, no_name_cro said:

E8 is showcase that little things count. It's not one trick pony, but it does have bunch of little upsides that make it viable in almost every situation. It's not best tank out there, but it's pretty comfy. I'd certainly put it above E2 Jumbo.

I still fail to see how the E8 is anything but objectively inferior to the T-34-85.  It has inferior mobility, alpha, and pen.  If the -85's gun handling isn't as good, it isn't by much.  What does the E8 have in exchange?  Some gun depression and a trifling view range advantage?

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10 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

What does the E8 have in exchange?  Some gun depression and a trifling view range advantage?

The gun handling difference is pretty vast; while it's only "considerably better" normally, the E8 (and E2, obviously) gets T6 vstab while the T-34-85 does not.  The gun handling between the two ends up being pretty much night and day, and this is coming from a guy that likes the 34-85 over any other t6 mt.

(T-34-85 with vents has .131 turret dispersion, .206 track - E8 with vstab has .92 turret, .146 track)

Beyond that, lots of gun depression, much more dpm, less vulnerable module placement, better agility & acceleration, and more hp. Statistically it also has more effective armor, but that surprises me too.

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3 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

The gun handling difference is pretty vast; while it's only "considerably better" normally, the E8 (and E2, obviously) gets T6 vstab while the T-34-85 does not.  The gun handling between the two ends up being pretty much night and day, and this is coming from a guy that likes the 34-85 over any other t6 mt.

(T-34-85 with vents has .131 turret dispersion, .206 track - E8 with vstab has .92 turret, .146 track)

Beyond that, lots of gun depression, much more dpm, less vulnerable module placement, better agility & acceleration, and more hp. Statistically it also has more effective armor, but that surprises me too.

Well, the T-34's hull armor is pretty trash at Tier 5, and it stays the same at Tier6 for the -85, but I did think the improved turret would put the -85 at least on par with the E8 since the E8 got the hole behind the mantlet enlarged.  Guess not.

I'll have to try my E8 out again.  I don't do Tier 6 that much lately, and when I do it's always something else.

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I dont think the E8 has a hole behind the mantlet at all, the entire thing is still 175mm. E8 is still the same its been for years, it's just the E8 Fury and E2's versions of the turret that got nerfed down to a paper 90mm.

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2 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

I dont think the E8 has a hole behind the mantlet at all, the entire thing is still 175mm. E8 is still the same its been for years, it's just the E8 Fury and E2's versions of the turret that got nerfed down to a paper 90mm.

I thought they were changing the E8 turret to match Fury's specifically because it was historical?

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