Joyrider216

Panzer 58 Mutz: Bear With Me

77 posts in this topic

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The Panzer 58 Mutz

When this tank was announced a while ago, my first thought was "Great another gimped Tier 8 premium that WG is going to use to make a cash grab."

I was wrong.

Soft Stats

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Overall this tank has a very solid set of hidden stats, the DPM is respectable, the penetration (212 AP/ 259 APCR) is comfortable, the ammo cost at 300 means that you will be making a tidy profit with this tank, the bloom is manageable, and the terrain resistance is on par with the 62a. The gun depression of -10 and the elevation of +25 give you plenty of options. The view range is a bit lack luster even with vision skills and optics. the HP is also low and limits your options in terms of trading.

Setup

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Using V. stabs to bring your bloom down, rammer to boost your DPM, and optics to give you some utility in being able to spot your own targets.

The AP pen is more than enough for most situations, with your APCR round being only needed versus T10s frontally, my ammo setup reflects this.

In terms of consumables, the standard small rep/small med/AFE applies. In terms of module damage, I have seen the turret, the ammo rack, and the radio being the most frequently hit modules. In terms of crew death, there hasn't been many. I have however been lit on fire 3~ times in my 27 games in the Mutz, so if you wished to run food, I would suggest training JoaT on your CO and dropping the med kit for food.

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As I didn't really have a German crew, this is rather thrown together and retrained. The focus on repairs is needed to get you out of trouble if you are tracked. gunnery/driving/and camo would be good skills to train up on this tank, anything you can do to lower the bloom values and the terrain values will go a long way. The camo also helps when you need to sit further back and take potshots into the enemy.

Armor

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Now this is where it gets odd. The mutz doesn't have the typical medium armor layout or hull shape. The entire upper hull is shaped like an egg with gradually thinner armor plates and steeper angles the further you move away from the middle of the hull. The mantlet and the turret itself are angled and sloped in such a way that it is a roll of the dice as to whether you pen or not. 

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This armor model shows, based of the camera's position, the possibility of you penetrating the tank, with green being a penetration and the purple being a bounce via armor thickness or angle. As you can see, at just a slight angle, around 45% of your tank becomes an auto bounce zone. 

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This effect becomes compounded when you hide your hull behind a small rise or dip and bring your -10 depression to bear. In a position such as this at either close range or mid range, rocking your hull back and forth, your opponents will have a hard time penetrating you.

Mobility

The Mutz has a top speed of 50 KPH that it reaches with ease. Because of the relatively low power of your engine (400 HP) and your amazing terrain resistance values, your acceleration is gradual, but once the top speed is reached, it stays there. In comparison to the  M46 KR, which has a much more powerful engine (800 HP) and a much higher set of terrain resistance values, instead of fighting through what feels like molasses to reach your top speed, you can get there with no trouble at all.

 

The Gun

 With 212 AP pen, 1,000 m/s, and decent DPM, the Mutz's gun is certainly a highlight. The typical German low aim time and dispersion compensate for the bloom values. Due to the speed of this tank though, the bloom is amplified and is nowhere near what the M46 KR is. In the KR once you reach a firing position you simply poke and fire with no aiming. In the Mutz, you must wait a moment for your gun to aim in before you are able to take a shot. In a sense, this longer exposure time is compensated by the more armored turret that the KR does not have.

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An oddity in regards to the gun depression is that there are spots on both sides of the tank that have only -7 degrees of depression, as opposed to the -10 of the rest of the tank.  this little quirk is noticeable and frustrating at first, but once you grow accustomed to it, you barely notice it.

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Playstyle

Because of its higher mobility and slightly tougher turret than the M46 KR, you have more options to flex and move. The principle of being a second line support tank suits this machine very well with its low dispersion and quick aim time. Being able to work ridges at short to medium distances also gives it that extra flexibility that something like the T-54 proto doesn't have. You want to race forward, get off a couple of early shots of damage, fall back and pick and snipe while looking for holes to exploit in the enemies defenses. unlike the KR which takes time to respond to these holes, the Mutz can rush there and get its DPM on target. 

The Mutz doesn't seem to have quite the same profitability that the KR has, but still makes fairly good money. These few games I played saw me averaging 56.7k a match.

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If you aren't quite sure if you want to get this tank, NA has a free rental going on right now, (flooding the matchmaker with Mutz's I might add) this will allow you to get a feel for the tank and its playstyle and capabilities. Also because of this flood of rentals, the MOE requirements are insanely low right now, an easy third mark if you wanted as well.

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The Verdict

+Fast and nimble, the power to flex is much appreciated 

+Good gun handling, in everything but bloom values

+Trollish armor layout

+Decent credit-making ability

+Has a bear on it

-Only 1,300 HP

-Ammo rack can be rather weak

-Bloom is noticeably worse than the KR, longer exposure time

Overall I would give it a 9/10 and highly recommend you pick it up.

 

 

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I was going to skip this thread, but then I decided to just grin and bear it. 

 

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Why mutz you write this bearly tolerable review, friend?

 

:drunk:

 

Yeah picking this up once its on sale. 

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This article bears a very similar resemblance to my thoughts on this tank...

Nice writeup, I got mutz information from it.

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I don't love the bear design, but the tank itself is very attractive.  I know thats silly, but compared to the hideous looking Indien Panzer, this thing is sexy.  

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great review friend...after giving one away perhaps I should buy one. I dont have a german crew other than the B2 clubber crew though with its messed up roles

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I've been looking for a decent tier 8 premium and after paying about 10 - 15 battles last night i'm definitely going to pick this up. 

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I had a good time Mutzing around last night, but I found myself on fire in 7 out of the 11 games I played in it.  In two of those games, I caught fire again after expending my extinguisher and broiled to death.  It could be a mix of coincidence with small sample size, but I found the burn rate to be rather alarming.

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I do really like this thing... giving it to us as a rental made me realize I've been playing the wrong class of tanks this whole time. Seems like I do a lot better in mediums...

I'm definitely also buying one, hopefully after the pre-mutz meta reappears so I can get a better idea of what it's like against anything but itself.

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I do plan on picking this bby up! Its so awesome!

Plus it has a bear!

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Bears don't fuck around!!!

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Is this thread replacing the other Mutz thread? Am confused

i didn't know the armor over a ridge was that troll. Definitely going to get it, despite the flood of players right now driving it more like this:

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10 minutes ago, HabNab said:

Is this thread replacing the other Mutz thread? Am confused

 

That thread was a general discussion theorycrafting, this is a review/verdict about it

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4 hours ago, JoreyTK said:

I've been looking for a decent tier 8 premium and after paying about 10 - 15 battles last night i'm definitely going to pick this up. 

 

I think I prefer it to the CDC; not enough to actually buy it but enough to look enviously.

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Great job on the review once again joyrider!

Joyrider compares the Mutz almost exclusively to the KR, and both tanks being on sale soon and available for rent right now (at least on NA) probably justly so.

However when thinking of those two tanks I just can't shake the feeling the KR comes out on top.

First of all I did not experience the appraised troll bounce effect at all. I got penned - a lot.

The turret seemed rather weak to me when I took it out on a spin. Maybe its just the lowish hp or small sample size but the KR seems sturdier in actual play.

The combination of less bloom and more HP certainly enable the KR to be played more daring than the Mutz. Not to mention the Mutz has 0 sidescraping abilities. At the end of the day I felt the KR can deal better with more varied situations for a longer period of time -> moar hard carries.

DPM is better than KR but still worse than FCM, CDC, Panther 8.8 ... um well you get the idea. Combined with 1.300 HP (worst in class) you are doomed to chai snipe should no ridgeline present itself for much needed abuse. Which reminds me of the rather average 380m view range. If you happen to get a map you can effectively snipe on that is.

All in all this tank would have been amazing in 2012 - but current maps will hand it the short end of the stick more often than not nowadays.

Pilsen, anyone?

 

So long story short - take advantage of the NA "rent two prems" event for another dozen games each before you make up your mind. The MM might be rigged to fool you into a purchase by handing you nothing but Malinovka and Prokh for a couple of matches - but at the end of the day we all end up on Stalingrad.

 

cheers,

Nehkcist

 

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5 hours ago, Nehkcist said:

at the end of the day we all end up on Stalingrad.

Sure your handle ought to be "Field Marshal Paulus"?

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6 hours ago, rojo180 said:

Plus it has a bear!

Bears don't fuck around!!!

Spoiler warning: Probably NSFW - bears eating.

Spoiler

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Joyrider, I question your conclusion on the sturdiness of turret armour. How is it that you say it's better than the M46 KR?

" In a sense, this longer exposure time is compensated by the more armoured turret that the KR does not have. "

Does the troll shape and the weird angles lead to more bounces, despite the KR turret being both much smaller and sturdier on paper? I feel like this is a very important point in comparing the two tanks. At first I completely disregarded this tank because of its paper armour, but now I'm reconsidering.

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43 minutes ago, Pyr0freak said:

Joyrider, I question your conclusion on the sturdiness of turret armour. How is it that you say it's better than the M46 KR?

" In a sense, this longer exposure time is compensated by the more armoured turret that the KR does not have. "

Does the troll shape and the weird angles lead to more bounces, despite the KR turret being both much smaller and sturdier on paper? I feel like this is a very important point in comparing the two tanks. At first I completely disregarded this tank because of its paper armour, but now I'm reconsidering.

< not joyrider obviously, but im gonna step on his toes

200 average damage blocked by armor currently in mutz after 34 games. I'd expect that to go down as currently MM is flooded with 90mm armed tanks. The ricochet zones on the roof/hull are 30mm so once MM goes back to normal there wont be many lucky bounces due to more guns larger than 90mm.

Its fairly paper. I'd say 1 in 5 shots i've taken to the turret have bounced or ricochet, probably a bit worse. If armor is a deciding factor for you, this tank doesnt have workable armor in any way and lucky bounces are rare

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5 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

< not joyrider obviously, but im gonna step on his toes

200 average damage blocked by armor currently in mutz after 34 games. I'd expect that to go down as currently MM is flooded with 90mm armed tanks. The ricochet zones on the roof/hull are 30mm so once MM goes back to normal there wont be many lucky bounces due to more guns larger than 90mm.

Its fairly paper. I'd say 1 in 5 shots i've taken to the turret have bounced or ricochet, probably a bit worse. If armor is a deciding factor for you, this tank doesnt have workable armor in any way and lucky bounces are rare

 

I've also been very frustrated by the Mutz's turret armor.

I don't really expect much of anything against equal or higher tier tanks, but last night an AMX 12t managed to pen my turret twice with AP despite the fact that he was in a small valley shooting up at my hulldown Mutz.

Overall I like the tank; having been a fan of the Indien Panzer, the Mutz feels very comfortable and familiar. It's just that I personally can't really think of a good enough reason to buy it. On NA West at the times I play, regular tier 8s in general and mediums in particular get shafted by endless tier X matches so it won't be particularly fun to play.

It's not even a good enough credit maker that I would consider using it to grind credits over my Type or 34-3. 

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The Panzer 58 Mutz is finally on sale in the SEA server FOR TWO DAYS ONLY (wtf WG ASIA?)

It comes in either a bundle (3.5k gold and equipment) or standalone

But in the ASIA server we also have a Mutz Crew Reward Mission, where basically you HAVE to buy and play the Panzer 58 Mutz and do ton of damage and EXP to earn a BIA crew.

Mission lasts until March 3.

Is it worth the buy and grind?

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100%, with the subsiding of the masses of rentals, the mutz still works just as well, I personally enjoy the mutz a bit more than the KR, would highly recommend you get. 

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I need to work on retreating tactics and second line sniping, 1 game 3,8k dpg, other game 800 dpg and got yoloed and die...

 

 

Spoiler

or just don't play on weekends at all:snail:

 

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WG you are making it really difficult not to spend money on this game!

10/10 advertisement picture

 

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