TheMostComfortableTanker

In depth 9.14 HD armor changes

52 posts in this topic

Keep your panties on tight, since this is going into more detail than you ever asked for.  I know a lot of this is already known, but it's not up to my saucy standards.

I'm doing it a bit different this time, and only checking for angle changes where it might be able to cause some sort of change.  I'll be skipping a lot of the tiny things on some of these tanks, just because so much got changed.  I added my thoughts on each.  Whether or not you agree with my conclusions, it'll at least help convey the size of the change.

 

I've sadly been replacing the misery of WoT with pretending to have a life, hence the delay.  Gamemodels3d could have been a bit faster on leaking the ST client too.

France

Spoiler

LeFH18 B2

•More rounded at round parts, but otherwise the same.  
•The sides for the hull gun mount are now 60mm (+20mm).
•The driver's hatch no longer sticks out.  
•Armor behind the tracks is now a very sloped section and a flat section, instead of a single slightly sloped section.

Verdict: Not enough to matter.

 

AMX 50 Foch (155)

•20mm sideskirts have disappeared.
•Mantlet front buffed to 310mm from 250mm.
•Mantlet sides are slightly thinner, with the rear half being 60mm.  A new weakspot, but probably would mean much.
•Indent on mantlet mount roof for the baby periscope is now 200mm thick where it would normally be a tiny flat 100mm weakspot.
•Flat front of mantlet mount is 200mm instead of 180, side of the mount are 170mm instead of 180mm.
•MG tumor shaped changed to more like a sphere.  Front armor is mostly 175mm thick instead of 180mm-80mm, but the sides become 40mm much sooner.
•"Hammerhead" tumor is now armored just like the AMX AC mle 48, just with the the very base of it being 180mm instead of 130mm.
•LFP is now 62°, was 59°.  UFP is now 55°, was 54°-56°.
•Spare tracks create a 50mm zone near the rear of the side hull (+10mm).

Verdict: I've not played this, but the mantlet area at least looks tougher from the front.  Side skirts maybe helped against HEAT?

VlUlIlv.png

Germanyland

Spoiler

 

E-25

•Spare tracks create a 35mm area on side hull (+5mm).
•Driver window no longer protrudes from the front plate.
•Top of mantlet mount is 20mm now (-30mm).
•Inside walls on the mantlet housing nerfed to 30mm (-20mm).
• Armor hole behind mantlet replaced by another piece of 60mm spaced armor.
•Mantlet shape changed and lost the 10mm spaced armor tube around the gun behind the mantlet.
•I hope people don't whine over what looks like a lot of nerfs in their head.
 

ucHvY4j.png

 

Verdict: Shut up.

 

G.W. Tiger

•Hull MG weakspot removed.
•Fighting compartment nerfed to 5mm (-11mm).
•Some changes to front hull slope.  Nothing that changes anything.

Verdict: It's arty.



Nashorn

•Spare tracks create a 35mm zone on LFP (+5mm).
•Driver hatch is now 10mm from all directions (-20mm front, -10mm side).
•Sloped rear floor plate same thickness as the rest of the floor (-5mm).

Verdict: Never had armor, and never will.

 


Pz.Kpfw. T-25

•UFP no longer has 45mm protruding hatches and MG mounts.
•All MG ports and optics are as thick as their surrounding armor (buff).
•Hull side behind tracks is 50mm (+5mm).
•Spare tracks create 55mm zone on upper hull side (+10mm).
•Hull rear is 35mm (+15mm).
•Rear hull sloped plates can now autobounce 75mm ammo (+5mm).
•Hull and turret roof/floor are now both 20mm (+10mm).
•One cupola removed, the other shrunk and got thicker sides (+25mm).
•Armor hole behind mantlet taller, possibly slimmer too.
•No bumps on either side of the turret armor behind mantlet.
•Turret ring is 60mm and even smaller (+25mm).
•LFP is 45° instead of 53°, rear hull slope is 40° instead of 51°.  Nothing else changed much.

Verdict: Mantlet might be a tiny bit worse and the tank taller, but the armor is certainly better.

 

 

VK 30.01 (H)

•Stock mantlet no longer is thinner near the edge.
•Stock turret cupola is no longer stupidly tall (why was it tall in the first place).
•Stock turret has smaller armor hole behind mantlet.
•Spaced armor around rear side hull air intakes is gone, as is the 0 armor sliver
•New 60mm strip above UFP protecting turret ring
•Spaced armor in front of driver is 60mm but about half as tall (+30mm)
•Rear hull overhang is 50mm underneath (+30mm)
•No discs poking out of the hull at the front wheel (certainly harder to track+dmg)
•Top turret face no longer has 120mm zones.
•Top turret cupola is no longer stupidly tall (why was it tall in the first place).
•Top turret now has a 80mm turret ring, but not one too big.
•Top mantlet 40mm edges are now much smaller.

Verdict: Top turret face may be a bit weaker, but the cupola is now a whole lot less vulnerable, as it should be.

 

 

Faillowe

•Like the E-25, mantlet shape is more like a cone and less like a tornado.
•Armor hole behind mantlet at least appears smaller.
•A bit more flat front turret face at the edge of mantlet (nothing to aim at, but might get penned by some tier 10s on accident).
•Hatches on turret roof the same as the rest of the roof (+10mm).
•Turret ring roof area along the side and rear hull now has the turret fully over it (thanks, extra polygons!).
•200mm turret armor covers a bit more ground.
•120mm turret rear now covers a bit more ground too, but nothing to complain about.
•Cupola is no longer topped with a 70mm cone.
•Rear lower plate is 33° instead of 31°.

Verdict: Nothing huge.  Mantlet area seems a bit worse, but there's also more bit area covered by 200mm instead of 160mm.  Front hull is unchanged.

 

Japan

Spoiler

Chi-Ha

•Same changes as the Chinese one.  Look at that

Verdict: Same armor as the Chinese one

 

Chi-Ni

•Slightly smaller armor hole behind mantlet
•Armor from trench sled went bye bye

Verdict: It's the same

 

Chi-Nu

•Tracks no longer have an empty spot between them and the hull.  Others have this too even though I never said it, but I've got to at least put something in here

Verdict: Even less changed than the Chi-Ni

 

Type 5 Ke-ho

•Lost those protrusions on the hull for the front wheel.
•Tracks no longer have a gap between them and the hull

Verdict: I guess it's better

British Vehicles

Spoiler

 

Crusader

•UFP nerfed to 20mm (-12mm), LFP nerfed to 20mm (-2mm), beak buffed to 32.7mm (+12.7mm).
•Areas respectively angled 63°(was 65°), 28° (was 30°), 62° (was 64°).
•Driver's front is now 40mm (+8mm).
•Hull roof was 14mm, is now 9mm-4mm (and 12mm over driver).
•Bumps on engine deck excluded from hitbox
•Stock turret ring is 24.7mm all around (was 39mm frontal, 19mm side, 23.5mm rear).
•Minor tweaks to stock turret side and rear armor, new 14mm spot on turret rear.
•Small view port on stock turret no longer creates a bump
•Top turret sees similar side, rear, and turret ring changes
•Guessing the viewer is funny, but no more empty gaps in the tank where optics should go

Verdict: Armor was shit, now it's just a little more shit

 

Sexton II

•No gap between tracks and hull

Verdict: Same thing as in 9.13

 

AT 15

•Frontal hull slope below gun changed (from 62° to 59° on the upper area, from 54° to 58° lower)
•76mm mantlet weakspot around the gun removed (+51mm)
•Hole behind mantlet is a fair bit smaller
•127mm sloped bumps on either side of the gun look sloped better by a couple degrees at most
•Tumors and cupolas are the same thickness, shapes have just changed like they did on the AT 15A
• Part of side hull above tracks at the engine deck changed to 101.6mm (-50.8mm)
•Round stuff is more round.  This tank has a lot of round stuff.  Lower 228.6mm strip is rounded now instead of flat.
•Tracks are "hollow" now
•A few minor things you won't notice

Verdict: Mantlet is better for certain, other stuff is mostly minor buffs.

America

Spoiler

 

M53/55

•Turret face is simplified (no mantlet, just flatness).
•Cupola is a little shorter
•Spare tracks on turret face add small 19mm spots (+5mm)
•Front hull shape also slightly changed.  Lots of minor changes.

Verdict: Still easily penned frontally by 75mm HE

 

T1 Heavy

•Sides of bump on stock turret roof are 63.5mm (+38.5mm).
•Small 35mm box on stock turret roof removed.
•Stock turret bottom rear slopes are 63.5mm and 50.8mm (-19.5mm and -32.2mm).
•Front turret face is entirely 102mm, no more 82mm strip around the edges.
•UFP no longer has a bump for the MG housing or the thinner areas for MGs and vision slits.
•UFP slope increased from ~22° to ~30°.
•Sloped middle plate angle increased from ~60° to 60°-74°.
•Rounded front hull is 95.3mm-76.2mm instead of 102mm.
•70° plate from rounded area to hull floor is 44.5mm (-25.5mm).
•Rear hull is 46mm, with 25.4mm near the bottom (was 41mm).
•Roof no longer autopenned by 76mm guns.
•Top turret has changes similar to the stock turret.
•Top turret has no bump to uparmor, but there is a 82.6mm cupola now.
•Top turret has two new bumps near the edge on either side of the gun mount.
•Top turret gun mount sides now are as thick as the turret side, not front
•Tracks "hollowed out".
•Look at this picture for the side hull.  Side hull was just a solid 44mm, shoulders 83mm.
McjtYPX.png

Verdict: Everything changed, but should feel mostly the same.  It's better in some places, worse in other

 

T20

•No bumps on side hull near suspension
•Hull hatches no longer slightly thicker than roof (-6mm)
•Other hatches and view slits are no longer thinner
•Hull bump under gun is 76.2mm frontally and 63.5mm to the sides (+50.8mm, +38.1m)
•Hull MG front is 76.2mm and top is 44.5mm (+12.7mm, -19mm)
•UFP is now 46° instead of 48°, LFP 55° instead of 45°.
•Turret ring replaced with well sloped 63.5mm and 38.1mm armor
•Spare tracks on hull rear create 50.8mm zones (+12.7mm)
•Rear hull shape changed slightly
•Spaced armor around rear of turret ring changed to normal armor
•Tracks are a lot more hollow
•Stock and top turret mantlet shrank while the hole behind it grew
•Turret roof is harder to hit from the front, as well as other changes
•Top turret rear roof slope is 25.4mm (-38.1mm)
•Top turret front slope is closer to 30° now than 20°.

Verdict: Still a paper mache tank, but the LFP slope looks nice.  Otherwise, lots of baby nerfs,

 


T28 Prototype

•You get a roof!  It's 38.1mm thick.
•You get cupolas too.  Flat parts are 190.5mm, sloped is [email protected]
•Bump on turret side to fit cupola is 165.1mm.
•Turret ring front is 203.2mm (+50.8mm).
•Turret sides near the front are 139.7mm (+12.7mm).
•Mantlet is now 203.2mm (+70.2mm).
•Hole behind mantlet is larger and less covered by the gun.
•Sloped things on front hull with tracks are 147mm (+20mm).
•Hull hatches removed.
•Hull MG weakspot no longer has little bump in the middle.

Verdict: Frontal turret side buffs are going to be really nice if the angles aren't different.  I hated the tank too much to decide on the other stuff.

USSR

Spoiler

MS-1

•Hull armor is now 16mm from all sides (-2mm front)
•Front hull slope is 8mm @70° now (-8mm, +1°)
•Hull no longer sticks out near wheels
•Tracks hollowed out more
•Front hull floor is 8mm (-8mm)
•Hull floor above tracks is 8mm (-8mm)
•Trench sled is gone
•Vision slits and other holes now as thick as the surrounding armor
•Bump on engine deck is now entirely 16mm (+8mm)
•New 8mm turret ring
•Stock turret rotated so the gun is no longer offest to the side
•Stock turret face with the MG on it is now 16mm (-2mm)
•Stock turret hole behind mantlet is larger
•Top turret armor behind mantlet is 8mm (-16mm)
•Top turret front armor is 16mm (-2mm, mantlet remains 18mm)
•Top turret armor on top and bottom of gun mount is 8mm (-8mm)

Verdict: Like the Crusader, this lost its front autobounce plate against most guns (still will bounce up to a 23mm autogun).  Lack of a sled and more hollow tracks also make it slightly worse.

 

A-20

•Driver hatch removed
•Spare tracks create decent sized 25mm area on UFP (+5mm)
•Stock turret has no armor hole for the gun and the weak spot by the gun is gone
•UFP is 55° instead of 56°, LFP 59° instead of 57°, beak is round instead of flat
•Hull bumps for rear wheel removed

Verdict: Still won't have fun against that KV-1

 

IS-6

•Turret slopes on front and side noticeable better.  
•Small 150mm spot on turret roof for a periscope removed.
•200mm strip added on turret below mantlet 
•Mantlet is more sloped from the front
•Armor hole behind mantlet is so small now that the gun covers it.  Mantlet on IS-6 is godmode now (150mm angled + 150mm flat)
•Driver hatch is 110mm now (+20mm)
•Driver optics area is no longer thinner on UFP (+20mm)
•120mm LFP overlap on UFP is noticeably larger
•Spare tracks on rear hull add a 80mm zone (+20mm).  
•UFP angle changed from 64°-69° to 65°.  
•LFP angle buffed from 51° to 53° and side hull from 44° to 46°.  
•Rear hull slopes both descreased by a degree or two
•Lower edge of sloped side hull now slopes down at 43° with sideskirts over it.
•More of the sideskirt area is sloped
•Top of cupolas are rounded

KZzhmmQ.png

Verdict: Russians thought the first HD model wasn't good enough, so they threw in a couple more buffs.  Mantlet is now invincible too.  Only nerf is that little area at the bottom of the UFP that was 69°, but is 65° now.  That area has a bit more 120mm armor on it now at least.

 

If you've got question, ask them.

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I sold the Is6 cus I felt like it was creeped out and that the IS5 was better in every way, now I need to get it back, this looks amazing :serb: 

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33 minutes ago, Nkrlz said:

How the fuck do you pen an IS-6 with an Is-6 now? (pure skill based rng?)

That's already iffy isn't it? I may be doing it wrong but if I IS-6 I hit that 2 button vs other IS-6 or IS-3's etc. accuracy is horrible enough that I don't trust weak points (which are again iffy as is already)..
I stopped going against Super Pershings because of that accuracy... just track go around if possible or relocate...

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Playing the IS6 is getting very annoying vs like 2 years ago. Not only you can't pen yourself but is3 got buffed, the introduced the japs. Ffs. 

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The IS-6 buffs seem a bit too good. Don't get me wrong, but the argument of "it has shitty pen!" Rings hollow when every fucker knows that it's completely viable to shoot nothing but APCR and make profit.

Add in its preferential MM, and you end up with another retard wagon magnet like the IS-3, but without the fear of getting spanked by T10 tanks every now and again.

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I absolutely hate IS6s when driving my t-34-3. Tracks/spaced amour almost always seems to eat side shots, frontally pretty much impossible to pen (turret roof only spot really, and it's a tough shot if he's moving) and a long reload that means switching to HEAT usually requires eating at least one shot if he gets the drop on you. Can't believe it got buffed again.

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3 hours ago, FreddBoy said:

The IS-6 buffs seem a bit too good. Don't get me wrong, but the argument of "it has shitty pen!" Rings hollow when every fucker knows that it's completely viable to shoot nothing but APCR and make profit.

 

stalin-is-deal-with-it_17935899_orig_.pn

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I expect a Jingles video to feature two baddies in IS6's not being able to pen each other frontally and just sitting there feeding each other steel walls.

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15 minutes ago, no_name_cro said:

IS6 stronk.

Also T28 Proto. roof is overmatch for 120mm guns.

Unless the T28 proto is at the bottom of a hill or something, it shouldn't be much an issue.  The roof is completely flat, so you'd need to be shooting down on him to see any in the first place.  If you're shooting down on one like that, you probably already have the advantage.  T28 proto is tall too.

 

Just like the IS-3, WG is going to be too afraid to make a popular tank worse in HD, so they'll end up making the IS-6 another silly tier 8 stomp device they'll never nerf.  

RU forums apparently starting throwing hissy fits when they heard part of the UFP was getting nerfed to 65° last time.  Funny thing is, only reason there's such a large 69° area is WG was awful at modeling and QC.  The previous HD model didn't have any 120mm on the UFP and it still had no armor behind the mantlet.  I don't think the old HD one had the reverse ~45° slope behind the spaced armor either on the side hull.

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1 hour ago, FreddBoy said:

it's completely viable to shoot nothing but APCR and make profit

Only if you pen... accuracy is still shitty I have bounced APCR aimed for other IS-6 shoulders off it's sides :(

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Now hopefully Is6 buff makes brawling a bit easier. 

2 hours ago, Golem501 said:

Only if you pen... accuracy is still shitty I have bounced APCR aimed for other IS-6 shoulders off it's sides :(

Yea... don't ever shoot in the shoulder, it never works.

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3 minutes ago, hallo1994 said:

Now hopefully Is6 buff makes brawling a bit easier. 

Yea... don't ever shoot in the shoulder, it never works.

but sometimes that's the flattest part... if that is straight on the weakpoint is at a horrible angle :( 

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1 hour ago, Golem501 said:

but sometimes that's the flattest part... if that is straight on the weakpoint is at a horrible angle :( 

If that's almost straight on then theres no reason you shouldn't be shooting at the front drive wheel or the roof. It's been a long time since I played, but I remember very clearly not bothering ever shooting that part of IS-6's.

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Jesus. Better nerf the foch even harder.

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2 hours ago, DoggieKruger said:

So sell my T-34-3 and buy an IS6?

 

Keep the T-34-3 and buy an IS6

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Gotta love WG "balancing"....

-IS6 buff? Give me a break. The tank is doing fine.

-Foch 155 armor model that basically adds armor where none is needed (mantlet) while leaving overmatchable sides AND gigantic frontal weakspots pretty much alone? Just what the tank needed!

 

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The Crusader needed an armour nerf? Seems like a nerf for the sake of nerfing something. 

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24 minutes ago, enroh said:

The Crusader needed an armour nerf? Seems like a nerf for the sake of nerfing something. 

I don't know what the armor layout was exactly IRL, I'd need to check, but I have a feeling that the new model is closer to reality than the old one.

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1 minute ago, TheMostComfortableTanker said:

I don't know what the armor layout was exactly IRL, I'd need to check, but I have a feeling that the new model is closer to reality than the old one.

I do not know what the IRL layout is either but lets not go out on a limb and say WG is doing something "realistic" :P

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