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leggasiini

Type 4 Heavy "appreciation" thread

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RNG just hates you, i penned them with Defender's AP kek, also i feel like i cant still angle my Type 4 at all without getting cheeks penned, other than angling front from corners. Cheeks are still 200 IIRC

As for gun choice, it might be actually true that 14cm could be better. The derp definitely doesnt feel the same on Type 4 as it feels on Type 5. I would say derp is significantly better than 14cm on Type 5, as 14cm doesnt improve that much on Type 5 (slightly better reload, accuracy and bloom pretty much) while derp has like 4,5sec faster reload, more gun depression on front, better aim time, accuracy and much better bloom on Type 5. The reload gap between 14cm and derp is smaller than on Type 4 (14cm has only 2,5 sec faster reload on type 5 while the difference is ~4 secs on type 4). Not to mention that 14cm's pen is notably less effective on tier 10 than tier 9.

I will probably still use derp on my mark grind so not only i have 3 marked the entire line but i have 3 marked entire line from tier 6+ with derps-only. Type 4's 14cm seems to be most viable AP gun out of all Jap heavies, i think.

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35 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

RNG just hates you, i penned them with Defender's AP kek, also i feel like i cant still angle my Type 4 at all without getting cheeks penned, other than angling front from corners. Cheeks are still 200 IIRC

As for gun choice, it might be actually true that 14cm could be better. The derp definitely doesnt feel the same on Type 4 as it feels on Type 5. I would say derp is significantly better than 14cm on Type 5, as 14cm doesnt improve that much on Type 5 (slightly better reload, accuracy and bloom pretty much) while derp has like 4,5sec faster reload, more gun depression on front, better aim time, accuracy and much better bloom on Type 5. The reload gap between 14cm and derp is smaller than on Type 4 (14cm has only 2,5 sec faster reload on type 5 while the difference is ~4 secs on type 4). Not to mention that 14cm's pen is notably less effective on tier 10 than tier 9.

I will probably still use derp on my mark grind so not only i have 3 marked the entire line but i have 3 marked entire line from tier 6+ with derps-only. Type 4's 14cm seems to be most viable AP gun out of all Jap heavies, i think.

Derp is still preferable since Type 4 has armour that is weak against gold and large weakspots: derp allows you to limit exposure - whereas 14cm is completely crap for that. Also fighting superheavies with 14cm is torture since the gun handles shittily and your chances of hitting a Maus' weakspots are tiny - not to mention the fact it only gets 280 pen.

The Type 4 has always been a crappy platform IMO. It pays too much for its frontal armour: it is slow as molasses and cannot angle. It's like a very terrible mix of The 4502B and the E75 which is even more sluggish and vulnerable than either of those tanks. In this way it's more comparable to the heavy turreted TDs than the true superheavies - kind of like a 215 183: your armour is one tool that allows you to bring your monstrous gun to bear - and sadly the 15cm megaderp is the only thing that carries it.

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And its frontal armor isnt even that amazing especially considering how much the tank sacrifies for it; after certain pen its just useless. 250mm turret front is actually quite bad for superheavy. E75 and VK B (prebuff) turrets were never considered very good turrets. Type 4 has as thick turret expect its literally twice as big target, and its mantle cannot even absorb shots. Against ~270mm pen the armor struggles already, meanwhile Type 5's armor can held up against 300mm pen due to ability to angle other than angling front from corners.Type 5 also has small chance of trolling even very high pen HEAT shells by overangling, as it has shitton of spaced armor at lower side armor. Type 4 doesnt have as much spaced armor there.

Still dont know why they didnt buff AP guns of the...pretty much entire line from tier 6 and up. The only actually "good" AP gun was O-I's 10cm and that got nerfed for no reason, now making it trash gun. Cutting 1 sec reload and nerfling bloom from 10cm with already bad DPM hurted it significantly more than doing the same for derp with almost twice as long reload. And the ability to oneshot + armor was the reason why O-I was OP. O-Ni 10cm is ok but i wouldnt still consider it "very good" gun, it just feels bit better because O-Ni has arguably worst derp of all jap heavies tier 6+.

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It might just be RNG but I have had zero big hitters with new gun. Regardless if its side on a light tank or heavy tank, they have all been 500 ish hits.

Has any even seen any 1600 dmg hits? loosing fate here, not that I care that much, its horrible to drive.

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So I'm grinding this from stock currently, although haven't put a huge amount of direct effort in right now. I actually don't mind the stock gun, if they'd buff the rate of fire a bit, it would be quite a competitive option in my opinion as the handling is quite good for a heavy tank and the gold pen is usually enough in most situations.

The speed though makes this thing a real feast/famine tank. Most of the heavies I've played have been at least reasonably mobile (E100 line and up to the IS-3 are the other lines of heavies I've played so far), and even the tanks before the Type 4 at least move faster. 25kph top speed and poor power to weight ratio just makes it seem like a random lottery as to whether you can get to a decent position or not. Had quite a few games where it's impossible to contribute because either everything dies before you can get any damage in, or because you're so slow you can't get to a proper position to contribute and then get overwhelmed and die very quickly.

The armour also leaves a lot to be desired. I was a bit shocked how weak the turret appears to be, get penned there all the time, even with a bit of wiggling to try and put off shots (that only seems to work, ironically, against someone intentionally trying to pen my turret, people that snapshot at the turret just seem to pen from whatever angle). Still some way from the 'top gun' and of course then another long grind for the derp, so will probably be playing this thing for a while. If it was a tad faster I'd probably not mind so much, but finding it real tough to be consistent at the moment.

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Updated the thread info as some of it was kinda outdated.

Also fuck this tank, it ruined my dream of 3 marking the entire line. I couldnt stand playing it.

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On 18.03.2017 at 0:49 PM, Balthazars said:

So I'm grinding this from stock currently, although haven't put a huge amount of direct effort in right now. I actually don't mind the stock gun, if they'd buff the rate of fire a bit, it would be quite a competitive option in my opinion as the handling is quite good for a heavy tank and the gold pen is usually enough in most situations.

The speed though makes this thing a real feast/famine tank. Most of the heavies I've played have been at least reasonably mobile (E100 line and up to the IS-3 are the other lines of heavies I've played so far), and even the tanks before the Type 4 at least move faster. 25kph top speed and poor power to weight ratio just makes it seem like a random lottery as to whether you can get to a decent position or not. Had quite a few games where it's impossible to contribute because either everything dies before you can get any damage in, or because you're so slow you can't get to a proper position to contribute and then get overwhelmed and die very quickly.

The armour also leaves a lot to be desired. I was a bit shocked how weak the turret appears to be, get penned there all the time, even with a bit of wiggling to try and put off shots (that only seems to work, ironically, against someone intentionally trying to pen my turret, people that snapshot at the turret just seem to pen from whatever angle). Still some way from the 'top gun' and of course then another long grind for the derp, so will probably be playing this thing for a while. If it was a tad faster I'd probably not mind so much, but finding it real tough to be consistent at the moment.

Go play the Maus. If your flank is overrun you will at least deal 3.5k dmg and block 7k playing 1 vs 5 on a loss.

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Can confirm this tank is slowly reducing my will to live.

Barely about to scrape through to the 'top gun'. Then a further long grind on the derp. Very close to considering dropping a lot of free XP for the derp simply to at least make the rest of the grind more bearable, but I'll try out the top gun at least. It's just so frustrating to play - either too slow to get anywhere or do anything useful, or if you are there, you just get penetrated by everything. The turret really is just so weak, probably 75% of the pens I suffer are in the turret.

My DPG is lower in this than in the O-ho and the O-ni (which appears to be my 'peak' in the line). :feelsbad:

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2 hours ago, Balthazars said:

Can confirm this tank is slowly reducing my will to live.

Barely about to scrape through to the 'top gun'. Then a further long grind on the derp. Very close to considering dropping a lot of free XP for the derp simply to at least make the rest of the grind more bearable, but I'll try out the top gun at least. It's just so frustrating to play - either too slow to get anywhere or do anything useful, or if you are there, you just get penetrated by everything. The turret really is just so weak, probably 75% of the pens I suffer are in the turret.

My DPG is lower in this than in the O-ho and the O-ni (which appears to be my 'peak' in the line). :feelsbad:

Derpgun makes the tank. The chassis is trash but the gun is fantastic. Once you have the derpgun you become better at minimising exposure, which makes your armour more effective as well.

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An update on my grind. Almost about the unlock the derp. To be honest, this thing is actually kind of growing on me. The 14cm is not a stellar gun, but I've found it to actually be quite workable, with some liberal gold-spam when required. My DPG has slowly been improving, and I find it much easier to be consistent with this gun. Will try out the derp obviously but if it's not as consistent, I will probably go back to the 14cm to finish the grind.

I feel that the changes to MM might have actually helped this tank quite a bit. The 14cm is weakest against other super-heavies because it lacks the pen to actually damage them frontally on a consistent basis. But with the changes, you generally won't be up against more than 2, maybe 3 super-heavies on the opposing team and the penetration and handling have appeared more than sufficient to me to be consistent against same and lower tier tanks.

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I'm hating this, loved the previous tanks, have the 14cm but its just garbage.

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1 hour ago, zarphag said:

I'm hating this, loved the previous tanks, have the 14cm but its just garbage.

This

On 4/11/2017 at 4:56 PM, lavawing said:

Derpgun makes the tank. The chassis is trash but the gun is fantastic. Once you have the derpgun you become better at minimising exposure, which makes your armour more effective as well.

Shoot gold at enemy super heavies, and just watch your WR (and DPG) rise.

this is a good tank to do reliable dmg vs tier X overbuffed heavies, and you can pull way more than your weight regardless o tier. 

Dont use the 14 cm, Defenders will laugh at you. it also has shit gold, if you are dead on spamming gold, use at least use the derp. 

Poor mans shells are also better with the derp, just aim to splash engine decks or turret roofs.

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Still need 60k or something to unlock the 15cm :/

After buying it and the 14cm and the tracks, and retraining the crew of (it seems) 187 individuals I'm broke so no gold. for now.. :D

Also 30% winrate which sucks even for me. same weekend, stock vk100.01p 75% winrate

All I see is a trash money sink slow pos ready to be farmed. Often before I've managed to get out of the cap.

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You lucky bastards, atleast you didnt grind it...when it had:

- only 14cm, no derp gun

- 14cm had 1,5 sec longer reload

- top speed was 20

- ...and due to terrible terrain resists, it struggled to reach even that

:P

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8 hours ago, zarphag said:

Still need 60k or something to unlock the 15cm :/

After buying it and the 14cm and the tracks, and retraining the crew of (it seems) 187 individuals I'm broke so no gold. for now.. :D

Also 30% winrate which sucks even for me. same weekend, stock vk100.01p 75% winrate

All I see is a trash money sink slow pos ready to be farmed. Often before I've managed to get out of the cap.

I free exp the 14 cm, and played just a few games before getting the derp, too.

Tracks...there is a module for that, bought at discount.

Retrain crew for silver, use +300 boosters and food. in 4 battles up to 100%.

Finished the grind with rly goood stats, near the end used up all the onigiris, and could not afford gold shells.

2 hours ago, leggasiini said:

You lucky bastards, atleast you didnt grind it...when it had:

- only 14cm, no derp gun

- 14cm had 1,5 sec longer reload

- top speed was 20

- ...and due to terrible terrain resists, it struggled to reach even that

:P

Without the derp it is indeed trash. but with derp you are very, very useful to your team when not top tier. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Felicius said:

Without the derp it is indeed trash. but with derp you are very, very useful to your team when not top tier.

Still feels horribly powerless after playing Type 5 Heavy

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1 hour ago, leggasiini said:

Still feels horribly powerless after playing Type 5 Heavy

The point is getting to the Type 5.

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Saving my free xp for t-54 now.

Might just 2* xp it each day until the 15cm is unlocked.

So sucky compared to the tier 8, I had a 10k+ xp game in that ( 5* and booster)!

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On 5/22/2017 at 10:04 AM, leggasiini said:

Still feels horribly powerless after playing Type 5 Heavy

Feels like O-Ni after playing O-Ho. but not that bad.

Same crippling reload that enables just about everyone to trade 2 for 1, even E-100, and you are very slow pulling back in cover. if ppl have balls and rush you, you are dead. If you track them with intention of retreating, they repair the tracks instantly, thanks to reusable kits.

I hate that bloom on both, but Type 4 does have the armor to aim all the way in, at least against some tanks, and the aim time/acc, while still atrocious, are way better. 3.2 vs 3.5, and 0.52 vs 0.56.

The tank itself  (Type 4) can be improved drastically by shooting gold and running onigiri (the worse bloob/dpm/acc, the more effect of food, and gold helps a lot when hitting some bad spots for HE).

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On 22/05/2017 at 6:01 PM, Felicius said:

Without the derp it is indeed trash. but with derp you are very, very useful to your team when not top tier. 

 

I dunno if it is 'trash' with the 14cm, especially not after the MM changes. The 14cm is only really unreliable against super-heavies, which you now see far fewer of due to the changes in MM generally. I found I was already on a steady path of improvement and found the tank actually bearable once I got the 14cm (the stock grind left me wanting to off myself though).

It is, of course, profoundly superior with the derp, although that credit cost... even winning and surviving, if you fire 5+ shots and do 3k plus damage you're losing 20-30k without a premium account. Ouch.

I actually am starting to like playing this thing now, it's not that bad. Of course the armour is underwhelming for the tier because the turret is weak and if you can't hide the shoulders when showing your angled front you'll get penned by almost everything, but I think in it's current form, and with the MM changes, it's not terrible.

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Its definitely not good with 14cm still. Keep on mind that apart from lower side armor buff (which it cant use anyways), the 14cm Type 4 is practically unchanged, and before 9.17.1 it was among worst tier 9s in  the game. The MM chages did help it, though, but i dont think its enough to make it still very good.

I probably should consider to rebuy it, i guess

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2 hours ago, leggasiini said:

Its definitely not good with 14cm still. Keep on mind that apart from lower side armor buff (which it cant use anyways), the 14cm Type 4 is practically unchanged, and before 9.17.1 it was among worst tier 9s in  the game. The MM chages did help it, though, but i dont think its enough to make it still very good.

I probably should consider to rebuy it, i guess

Why would you rebuy this when you have the Type 5?

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To 3 mark it, only reason

Its the only Jap superheavy that i havent 3 marked

I already tried after 9.17.1 but i ragesold it later. It felt terrible after playing Type 5 so much, but now with new mm, arty changes and the fact i havent spammed Type 5 games that much i would give it another go

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On 2017-5-25 at 0:08 PM, Balthazars said:

I dunno if it is 'trash' with the 14cm, especially not after the MM changes. The 14cm is only really unreliable against super-heavies, which you now see far fewer of due to the changes in MM generally. I found I was already on a steady path of improvement and found the tank actually bearable once I got the 14cm (the stock grind left me wanting to off myself though).

It is, of course, profoundly superior with the derp, although that credit cost... even winning and surviving, if you fire 5+ shots and do 3k plus damage you're losing 20-30k without a premium account. Ouch.

I actually am starting to like playing this thing now, it's not that bad. Of course the armour is underwhelming for the tier because the turret is weak and if you can't hide the shoulders when showing your angled front you'll get penned by almost everything, but I think in it's current form, and with the MM chang

You forgot the wholesale buff of German super bricks. They are getting more common by day. Especially against E 75/ Mäuschen you stand no chance if they switch to gold. Maus YouTube cannot even scratch...and while it is not expected of you to take him alone, you can be a nasty customer. Enough go to live through 4 shots, and you can be a great support in taking him down...that end matches, especially if your team has just a few tier X, and noobs driving them

Just now, Felicius said:

You forgot the wholesale buff of German super bricks. They are getting more common by day. Against E 75/ Mäuschen you stand no chance if they switch to gold, and you meet then all time. Maus/VK (and ppl still don't know where to shoot that thing, and don't have balls to simply rush it...they think that small alpha means good some) You cannot even scratch...and while it is not expected of you to take him alone, you can be a nasty customer. Enough go to live through 4 shots, and you can be a great support in taking him down...that end matches, especially if your team has just a few tier X, and noobs driving them

 

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Finished my grind on this tank as well recently, so final thoughts.

It's fun.

257 games, 53.7% win rate, 2,043 damage per game (which is down a bit, last few games were a bit crummy).

The armour is surprisingly good once you learn how to bait shots into a heavily angled lower plate and hiding the shoulder/side, I'm surprised there are still so many people that don't know where to shoot it (of course the guys with high pen guns who know what they're doing will make your armour feel like a joke). Against lower tiers it's obviously a bit of a giggle as you can bounce all day with some wiggle. Turret is still really weak though, which is probably the biggest weakness against same or higher tier vehicles, they can go through the front like butter.

The derp gun is completely overpowered when spamming gold. 600 damage on average is just too good. If it didn't have the gold ammo and was only doing the 400-odd damage you'd get firing standard rounds, the tank wouldn't be very good or much fun to play. But when playing? It's just fun. Good aiming will let you do consistent high damage, and when you get those glorious penetrating hits (e.g. side of a T29 or M103)... ah, so satisfying.

With the derp and gold ammo it's actually quite decent to good. As I said above, the MM changes also helped it. As it's really slow, it'll never be a 'best in tier' but I actually quite enjoy playing it and will look forward to the Type 5.

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