Reluctor

Vertical Stabalizers

53 posts in this topic

First off I apologize if this is the wrong area for this question. 

From everything that I have read, the rule of thumb is that if a tank can equip Vertical Stabilizers, it should equip them. 
My question is why? For the most part this puts the standard load out as Rammer, Vert Stab and optics on heavy / meds / lights. Why are the stabilizers more important than Vents?
Vents give you a 121% crew, which feels amazing to me. Otherwise you have to sacrifice vision to get it on there and while that is ok on some tanks, it definitely puts you at a disadvantage at the end of a game or in 1vx situations.

Thank you for any help in this. Dumb scrub here and sometimes I take a bit to learn something.

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Well...

First, vents give +5% to all crew - so your commander goes from 100 -> 105, and your others go from 105 -> 110 (and a bit). This will impact lots of things a small amount.

Vstabs on the other hand impact your ability to shoot but in a fairly significant way. Either on the move or the time from stopping to being fully aimed - it's all about making your ability to do damage safer and more effective.

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Moved to core skills and mechanics since that's a more appropriate subforum than AAPP, which requires specific questions around gameplay.

As to the question, due to the way crew proficiency is applied vents provide a ~2.5% boost to your actual skills, which amounts to not much more than a placebo, on the other hand the vert stabs decrease the size of your reticle bloom at all times by 20%, which is absolutely huge since it means you will be able to shoot much more accurately while having to spend less time aiming, which is a much bigger boost than an extra 2.5% of view range, or DPM could be.

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25 minutes ago, Storm said:

As to the question, due to the way crew proficiency is applied vents provide a ~2.5% boost to your actual skills, which amounts to not much more than a placebo, on the other hand the vert stabs decrease the size of your reticle bloom at all times by 20%, which is absolutely huge since it means you will be able to shoot much more accurately while having to spend less time aiming, which is a much bigger boost than an extra 2.5% of view range, or DPM could be.

so your saying GLD vstab over vstab vents? I always thought it was the other way around

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3 minutes ago, Wanderjar said:

so your saying GLD vstab over vstab vents? I always thought it was the other way around

vents vs gld is going to be dependent on how painful you find something's aim time. Personally i'd always go with vents. But some of the >3s aim time tanks i guess you could consider a GLD.

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that was my view as well but from what storm is saying is that vents aren't much more than a bandaid and thus a dedicated piece of equip to minimize something such as a GLD is more effective. 

I've seen a lot of people say that vents are the preferred equip for most tanks that can get it due to the spread out benefits. and while 2.5 % isnt HUGE it does add up I thought. a hair more acceleration, .1 sec faster reload etc.

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1 minute ago, Wanderjar said:

that was my view as well but from what storm is saying is that vents aren't much more than a bandaid and thus a dedicated piece of equip to minimize something such as a GLD is more effective. 

I've seen a lot of people say that vents are the preferred equip for most tanks that can get it due to the spread out benefits. and while 2.5 % isnt HUGE it does add up I thought. a hair more acceleration, .1 sec faster reload etc.

Bearing in mind the vstabs + rammer element is almost a given. Beyond that the slow shift away from a vision meta suggests optics may not be as obligatory as they may have been, but i still use them on far more than vents. In fact vents i tend only to use when there isn't a specific facet that i want to improve (eg vision / aiming).

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oh absolutely vstab/rammer is required. Rammer is pretty much required for everything, as is vstab where avail. the GLD or Vents is the question

I rarely run optics unless its a high vision med or scout however.

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I believe that GLD is not very useful when vents also improve your aim time, however by around 8.5% less, but also improve your reload and view range by 2.5% more.

Also, its cheaper on medium tanks than a GLD

47 minutes ago, Wanderjar said:

oh absolutely vstab/rammer is required. Rammer is pretty much required for everything, as is vstab where avail. the GLD or Vents is the question

I rarely run optics unless its a high vision med or scout however.

I don't think its really required. For example, on the T-54 lwt, I run optics, vents, and verts.

The extra DPM really isn't needed due to it being a LT, so I max the 445m view range.

If I run food I can get it a bit higher as well.

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  • VStab on everything that can use it and doesn't have superb gun handling to begin with
  • GLD on artis and TDs (with bad aim time). Otherwise GLD is pretty shitty as it only works when not moving the hull and its meager 10% improvement. The only heavies where GLD makes sense are IS7 and some chinese heavies with their horrible gun handling.
  • Though if you have BIA and use food go for Vents instead of GLD on tanks like AMX50 100, because it stacks.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:
  •  The only heavies where GLD makes sense are IS7 and some chinese heavies with their horrible gun handling.

What about T34? The bloom on that thing is almost as bad as the T92. :kjugh:

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17 minutes ago, nemlengyel said:

What about T34? The bloom on that thing is almost as bad as the T92. :kjugh:

Thats why I never liked that thing. Sure you can mount it there.

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Actually, the Skoda's have opened my eyes for GLD. I used vert stab, rammer and optics and I really fucked up tons of magazines in tier T9 and T10; then I switched optics to GLD and suddenly they are the most OP tanks this game has ever seen.

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33 minutes ago, Private_Miros said:

Actually, the Skoda's have opened my eyes for GLD. I used vert stab, rammer and optics and I really fucked up tons of magazines in tier T9 and T10; then I switched optics to GLD and suddenly they are the most OP tanks this game has ever seen.

Rammer on autoloader? Blasphemy :-)

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37 minutes ago, Pale_Horse said:

Rammer on autoloader? Blasphemy :-)

Lol, yeah, Vents, I meant vents, vert stab and optics/GLD -_-

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4 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

oh absolutely vstab/rammer is required. Rammer is pretty much required for everything, as is vstab where avail. the GLD or Vents is the question

I rarely run optics unless its a high vision med or scout however.

Dont forget that Vents not only improve aim time, but also all gun dispersion values and fully aimed accuracy. Not to mention Vents are "active" even on the move and have loads of other effects. Imho its more of a 10% better aimtime vs 5-6% better aimtime + 2.5% everything else kind of a dilemma...

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This is the graph you're looking for...

TXgCdT4.png

I think Strana made it or someone, either way it's not me. :doge: 

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Theres only two tanks I don't use VStabs on that can use them: T22 and E50. The T22's handling is already out of this world. The E50 moves slowly enough that its not a huge loss for me and its dispersion. In both cases, I run Vents. 

On most of my other tanks, when choosing between GLD or Vents, I always pick vents unless its a French Autoloader (then its GLD). T57H I use VStab, GLD, and Vents

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I don't run vstab on T22 because it has the same bloom value stock as a M48 with vstab.

And the DPM just sucks too much.

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7 hours ago, Serene_Potato said:

The extra DPM really isn't needed due to it being a LT, so I max the 445m view range.

What do you think your LT is good for if not for its DPM? I am completely dumbfounded that someone would skip a rammer on their T-54 ltwt.

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37 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

What do you think your LT is good for if not for its DPM? I am completely dumbfounded that someone would skip a rammer on their T-54 ltwt.

View range? :P

If I wanted DPM then I would play a T-54, which has the same matchmaking spread =]]

I was completely convinced by the time I read an article somewhere that said that most of the time, one would rather have better aim time than DPM. Didn't quite agree, but tried it on the lwt and found that it was a better fit, at least for me :P

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8 minutes ago, Serene_Potato said:

View range? :P

If I wanted DPM then I would play a T-54, which has the same matchmaking spread =]]

I was completely convinced by the time I read an article somewhere that said that most of the time, one would rather have better aim time than DPM. Didn't quite agree, but tried it on the lwt and found that it was a better fit, at least for me :P

LTs are not good for their view range, though; their spotting power comes from their camo on the move and speed. That's not to say more view range isn't good, but you're giving up a second of reload time to spot less than a TOG's length further away. Even if we want to pretend the T-54 ltwt is anything other than a garbage medium, it's still made to have the capability of tackling undertiered meds and other lights. Both benefit greatly from not having trash damage output.

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5 hours ago, no_name_cro said:

This is the graph you're looking for...

TXgCdT4.png

I think Strana made it or someone, either way it's not me. :doge: 

nice! anyone got the original data? 

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6 minutes ago, Wanderjar said:

nice! anyone got the original data? 

What do you mean by original?

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the source spreadsheet/data for the chart. yeah I could probably go look up the values and spend 2 hours putting it on a spreadsheet myself then making a pretty pivot table from it but if someone's got the data already, so much the better

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