Star_Hustler

Sidescraping/angling in an Obj. 140?

16 posts in this topic

Being that I am ready to buy the Obj. 140 as my first Tier 10, I have been trying to figure out all I could in the absence of actually owning the machine.

One thing that truly intrigues me about it is the side armor layout. From what I see it varies from 100 mm with a strip of 40 mm at the bottom when flat on, to nearly full autobounce/absorbed values in sidescrape position, up to silly degrees of angling in regards to the rear part of the side armor.

Now, I am not mad enough to go brawl this thing with the heavies, but I wonder, would baiting out shots by sidescrape-peaking the rear part of the side armor of the tank be a viable tactic? I figure that with the repair time on this tank I can probably bait a shot from an IS-7 or E-100, get tracked, let the crew repair my tracks and then still get to fire a return shot.

Last time that the TS was up, I had a number of runs in the tank, and I was pretty impressed with the number of shells I bounced/absorbed with the side armor and the UFP (while working at the full extent of my gun depression): does this work in normal Random Battles as well, or is it all merit of the HEAT spam on the test server?

 

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I for one, have never been able to effectively sidescrape in the 140. I get more success poking the front out at an insane angle, managing to keep my drive wheel in cover, baiting the shot, and then pushing out and taking a return shot.

 

you can sidescrape, you can sidescrape in almost every tank, but I have always felt that the 140 isn't very good at it (the 62A is better) - also if you do it off the left side of the tank, so they are shooting the left side I think, you get racked every other shot. 

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Yeah, don't try to excessively sidescrape in a 140. That thing's ammorack is already too vulnerable, and accidentally exposing your side will do you no good. And even though I'm a 62a masterrace shitlord, the 140 does have very trolly frontal hull armor in that even unangled its effective thickness is something around 200~ and if you angle it it gets to 220~. 

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Watch some X3NA, seriously his 140 replays (which probably dont work now) and the vids that batgurl posts of his games.  Sick.

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I never plan on sidescraping with my 140, but it's been done a few times.  Like others have said, I almost always poke the front out instead, but only rarely.  I guess I just tend to try and find another way to engage the other tank.  Find a little ridge and abuse the turret, or something.  I think of it this way:  I'm in basically one of the best tanks in the game, there's probably a more advantageous position for me to be in.  If I absolutely have to sidescrape, fine.  But I feel like there's always a better opportunity/more advantageous position to be in.

Plus, sidescraping in the 140 might make it easier to snipe one of your cupolas, because you're not moving the tank as much from side to side (from your enemy's perspective).  Unless you're super quick about it.  It would still be pretty hard to hit it.

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47 minutes ago, tsizzle98 said:

Like others have said, I almost always poke the front out instead.

So let's say I'm engaging a tank that is behind a corner to my left: I angle the front of the tank towards the corner, then try to poke out the outwards tip of the front, while trying to hide the inwards track, at an oblique angle? If I'm not mistaken at that kind of angle both the UFP and the LFP should be autobounces.

 

And yeah, I don't plan on sidescraping this thing much, there's a reason why I chose the tank with more mobility and gun depression despite having unlocked both. Plus, I really need to learn when to disengage and abandon a flank.

1 hour ago, cpraf104 said:

That thing's ammorack is already too vulnerable, and accidentally exposing your side will do you no good.

 

 

 

More or less than that of the Leo Prot, in your opinion? Because I am selling the Leo 50k short of eliting it just because of that damn ammo rack.

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Sidescraping is like your last resort in a RU med(except for T22), most of them have some weak spots on their side, like the turret base in the 62A and the 57mm plate on the 140. And the ammorack is pretty weak on them too. You should definitely avoid getting into that kind of situation that you just can not use your frontal plate to bait a shot.

I mean like it is doable, but it's just a bit too risky, it is not like you are an E50/E50M with those kind of misleading german side armor that sometimes you just can't see whether it is over angled or not.

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2 hours ago, Star_Hustler said:

More or less than that of the Leo Prot, in your opinion? Because I am selling the Leo 50k short of eliting it just because of that damn ammo rack.

I have never played the PT A so I can't tell you. But I did sell the 140 because the ammorack got damaged a little too often for my taste. It's really down to RNG (as it is with many things in this game). I know plenty of people who prefer the 62a because of the terrible module damage on the 140, and then also plenty of people who have no problems with the 140 ammorack at all. (For some reason a lot of people - not just blood reds and yellows - think that the only difference between the two are the turrets, which is just completely wrong). 

Give it a whirl, who knows.

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2 hours ago, Star_Hustler said:

More or less than that of the Leo Prot, in your opinion? Because I am selling the Leo 50k short of eliting it just because of that damn ammo rack.

I think both are about the same, but with the 140 you can take steps to avoid getting your ammorack damaged; IIRC the ammorack is only on one side of the tank (can't recall which - anyone remember?) and there is of course armor to avoid taking damage at all. Overall I found the 140 to be a lot less ammorack prone than the Leo - the only hovermed that's THAT fragile is the Obj 907's. The thing is practically balanced around being ammoracked half the time.

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It can sometimes save your ass in a pinch if you get stuck in a close quarter situation and it becomes your only option to mitigate damage from the next shot. But you have to do it perfectly, and really it's more of a "track-scrape" than an actual side-scrape; you want the track to eat the shot and not the armor itself. So the angle has to be extremely shallow, and a decent opponent will advance the extra yard he needs to get the good shot into your side instead of shooting your track.  So it's not exactly reliable, but I've done it in the past. It works with the 62A also, but in the same "kinda doesn't work so well" way.

It's a move that every tank in the game can pull off, even paper armored tanks can get their tracks to eat shells if you position them properly. But it's risky.

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8 hours ago, Rexxie said:

I think both are about the same, but with the 140 you can take steps to avoid getting your ammorack damaged; IIRC the ammorack is only on one side of the tank (can't recall which - anyone remember?) 

Right side, not the left like @Assassin7 said.  Applies for both ammo rack and fuel tank; it's why I always carousel tanks counter-clockwise in RU meds.

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You guys are all stupid. All RU meds can sidescrape (to good effect) simply because you give way less of your tank to shoot at = less damage taken. Driving out means you can permatracked and WILL take damage while sidescrapes at least have the possibility to bounce/absorb. Of course I'm not thinking of the typical sidescrapes to negate trading. But certainly sidescrapes while fighting tanks that are moving simply because they'll have a hell of a harder time to RNG snapshot you and if they manage to hit it's a likely bounce anyway. Slow sidescrapes that you just abuse to make people fire won't work because tracks are too close to the hull but every goddamn tank can sidescrape simply because you negate enemy firing angles while keeping your gun firing if you can't properly hulldown. It's not hard to do and it will really net you in the long run due to HP preserved. Hell I sidescraped my way to win a full  HP13 90 yoloing at me simply because he couldn't hit me in a freaking WZ-131. Had I driven straight out for pokes everytime the odds of him hitting me are much greater because sidescraping simply is the most effective way to show as little of your tank as possible while being able to shoot (outside of hulldowns)

 

Your own HP is way more valuable than the enemy HP you are farming off and driving straight out and baiting with UFP is just plain retarded since it's weak as hell and anything bigger than a T8 shooting AP can pen you if there's even a sliver of track at those angles. Just don't. Sidescrape doesn't take more time either, just handbrake to get straight and then you suddenly end up with those games that you have 6k damage with only 1-2 shots taken because you didn't give your tank away to the enemy

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11 hours ago, Rexxie said:

I think both are about the same, but with the 140 you can take steps to avoid getting your ammorack damaged; IIRC the ammorack is only on one side of the tank (can't recall which - anyone remember?) and there is of course armor to avoid taking damage at all. Overall I found the 140 to be a lot less ammorack prone than the Leo - the only hovermed that's THAT fragile is the Obj 907's. The thing is practically balanced around being ammoracked half the time.

IIRC its the left side that has the ammo rack in the 140

3 hours ago, PlanetaryGenocide said:

Right side, not the left like @Assassin7 said.  Applies for both ammo rack and fuel tank; it's why I always carousel tanks counter-clockwise in RU meds.

Oh rip never mind lol.

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16 hours ago, Star_Hustler said:

So let's say I'm engaging a tank that is behind a corner to my left: I angle the front of the tank towards the corner, then try to poke out the outwards tip of the front, while trying to hide the inwards track, at an oblique angle? If I'm not mistaken at that kind of angle both the UFP and the LFP should be autobounces.

Yeah!  To build off of that, sometimes I like to bounce in and out a little bit around the corner to bait a shot.  Most pubbies won't shoot, but if you bounce in and out for a while and THEN go out a BIT further than usual then pull back, they think you're going to pull out completely - and then hurl a shell off your front plate (or miss altogether, b/c you pulled back fast enough).

I still don't try to do it that often.

Also, listen to the other ppl here, in lieu of me.  They actually know what they're talking about

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I found sidescraping in my 140 extremely awkward. It theoretically can work, but I've never found it reliable. IMO this is because the armor layout of the 140 is weird - instead of a boxy shape, the armor looks like a upside down trapezoid (go to tanks.gg and look at the upper half of the upper plate); what this means is that if your opponent hits the side armor part that extends from the trapezoid part of the upper plate, they'll very likely bounce, but part of your weaker upper plate extends when you're sidescraping. 

Also the stats for the 140 side armor are a bit of a lie. It's 80 mm but only in the bottom half. This is why I found the E-50m way better at sidescraping - the upper plate is much tougher, so if you overextend it's not super-punishable. It depends far more on angles, so it's more prone to player-error- if you over angle you'll very likely get penned. This was really annoying at first, cause I found it actually easier to sidescrape with the T-54 than 140, so I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working at first. 

Essentially, use your turret, only sidescrape if absolutely necessary 

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