HawkT1

Waffentrager auf panzer iv - Which gun?

67 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Felicius said:

There are two 15 cm guns available, with the same stats. "top one" is basically an E-100 one, with slightly more acc (0.38), and 20 mm more AP penetration (but it is crappy anyway). Top one has a bit faster shells, but that is still pedestrian speed.

Fact is - for a stock grind, stock (RHM one) 15 cm allows you to mount equipment and unlock suspension (without taking a place for a module), since long 128 is too heavy for a stock one. It is also a tad lighter than the top one, so you have like 3% better power-to weight (handy if you run stock tracks)

So grind the tracks with the stock 15cm and then unlock the top 15cm? I free exp necessary stuff on every tank I play so I'm not aware of that :l

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16 hours ago, Felicius said:

I swear that the crosshair on this tank aims a bit too low. It seems than my shells hit below the center at least 2x more often than above the reticle. I seriously aim a bit higher when I snipe (for example if I wanna hit a tank in a weak hull, I aim at the turret ring, not in the middle of the hull).

 

I feel like I should wear a tinfoil hat to say that this actually worked. 

I hunkered down and ground out the rest of this last night, and aiming at turret rings instead of actual hull spots worked so well that I probably landed 2 more shots a game on average. Apparently strange advice is sometimes very good advice, so thanks.

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14 minutes ago, zyl said:

I feel like I should wear a tinfoil hat to say that this actually worked. 

I hunkered down and ground out the rest of this last night, and aiming at turret rings instead of actual hull spots worked so well that I probably landed 2 more shots a game on average. Apparently strange advice is sometimes very good advice, so thanks.

Tnx. But I have to warn you (in case you do not know yet)...

Grille 15 is crap.

I bought it when top of the tree (30% discount, after sale I lost just 1 mill to get ton of personal reserves), and mostly let my 12 y bro plays it, to get personal reserves (I hoard it for the Swedes). Not a keeper.

It clicks for certain players...but suck for 95%, at least.

Waffle 4 is much more reliable, and if the 128 trolled you, just wait for the Grille derp 150.

Read the thread "Grille 15" before you sunk 6 million in it, 3 of which you will never see again. Huge, turns like a whale, camo like a Maus, meh 340 HEAT as gold and arty levels of bloom (srsly, 183 or KV2 are a charm compared to it) make it hard to adapt after sneaky Waffle 4 with railgun 128+APCR. Also, it has very low hp (while waffle 4 1600 is quite decent for tier), and you have no increase in paper DPM, much less effective one.

Oh, yeah, not even a full turret, but 120 degrees one, or so. It works on 416, because it turns on a dime, but on Grille...heavies can flank you.

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I read the topic already, actually. We have it as a CW option, so I sort of feel obligated to get it, but ty for the warning. I'll give it a try in some pubs (maybe get the 8k mission with some luck, since it is topping damage charts atm) and drop a poast in the grille thread if it warrants one. I have a feeling I will be able to squeeze some fun out of it, since finding a workaround is part of the fun to me. I sort of wish I would have done it all earlier and gotten a ride in the waffle before it went away, though. I just ended up liking the rhoomba so much that I stuck with it for too long, and then hating the baby waffle so much that it stayed around too long.

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4 hours ago, zyl said:

I read the topic already, actually. We have it as a CW option, so I sort of feel obligated to get it, but ty for the warning. I'll give it a try in some pubs (maybe get the 8k mission with some luck, since it is topping damage charts atm) and drop a poast in the grille thread if it warrants one. I have a feeling I will be able to squeeze some fun out of it, since finding a workaround is part of the fun to me. I sort of wish I would have done it all earlier and gotten a ride in the waffle before it went away, though. I just ended up liking the rhoomba so much that I stuck with it for too long, and then hating the baby waffle so much that it stayed around too long.

Waffle Pz. 4 was great back in the day when it had 410 m WR, and vision meta. Of all the German paper TDs (RHM, Waffle 4, Waffle E-100), it coped the best with the transition to the new meta, due to small size and short exposure. 

RHM was broken back in the day, but actually less effective than Waffle 4 (sweet spot), as was the waffle E-100, and none of them had the flexibility of Waffle 4 (quite a lot of maps back then like Hidden Village, South Coast, Pearl River, Komarin, Northwest, Severogorsk) that combined reasonable speed, camo, and gun depression - All the above maps were quite campy, but had tendency to be won by lemingtrains. Other 2 waffles did not performed so good either because you would be spotted from start, or you had no speed to run when needed. Also, waffle E-100 had trouble with exposure on them due to height + bad gun depression (actually it was more OP in city maps with plenty of hard cover, or in Chai sniping role, but never mid range on a hilly terrain.

Waffle 4 was (and still is) the most reliable of the german paper line.

I am a strong advocate of Jagdtiger, though. Meta (and maps) shifted in that direction, and hp buff was a cherry on top. Also, it retained its view range, while other TDs were nerfed bad (40 m across the board, you lost the effect of optics - now camp bush with binos like every noob in game. Why not buy ISU for that role - and it can also brawl, too).

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1.5 years later.. 

Can I repeat this question? I would swear by the 128, but Foch runs the 150 and enjoys it AND does well in it, despite minimal usage of prem ammo.

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On 2/20/2018 at 10:10 AM, sundanceHelix said:

1.5 years later.. 

Can I repeat this question? I would swear by the 128, but Foch runs the 150 and enjoys it AND does well in it, despite minimal usage of prem ammo.

Nope. 

128 now more than then. armor creep means 352 apcr feels like silver bullets. Sometimes you are the only one in your team that can penetrate enemy over-armored heavies. 352 apcr goes through IS-7 turret, tried and tested numerous times ( Russian med turrets too, except the 430 U not that good)

+ you do not wanna expose to type 4&5 at all. just load apcr and snapshot in their general direction. 

take note that 128 has dirt cheap gold ammo, too. 4400 vs 6000 silver. if you count every time you miss/Stalin space armor eats HEAT, it is like 2x more.

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12.8cm master race. I'm fairly certain I 2 marked the tank while grinding it with the 12.8cm and my friend played it with the 12.8 as well. The 128mm L/61 has ridiculous accuracy, ridiculous DPM, ridiculous pen and even good damage. The 15cm certainly is interesting, but it loses its charm from the Rhm, where you're no longer facing itty bitty tier 6 tanks that you can 1-shot. Every tier 7 medium can tank the hit and some tier 7 TDs can. The 12.8 just had paralyzing DPM and I think it's really the best gun in the game.

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The gun is great.

The platform is utter shit thanks to the shit reverse speed for the armour (i.e. autopen except the gun which might bounce enemy shots--bounced a T30 with my gun once)

And the camo is just about useless in current map designs. If you seek to win instead of farm damage you're basically on the attack all the time with no gun depression, no armour, and no turret traverse, ugh.

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22 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

The platform is utter shit thanks to the shit reverse speed for the armour

The low reverse speed is completely mitigating by poking backwards with the rear turret. 

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1 hour ago, monjardin said:

The low reverse speed is completely mitigating by poking backwards with the rear turret. 

Only works on flat ground, and the time it takes to get anywhere, turn around, and then poke (for example, Arctic Region southeast corner) is enough for a heavy to blap you twice while you're still doing the spin, presuming your guys are not sufficiently in his face. And relocating to the next blapping point is also cancer due to having to turn 180 degrees, travel, and turn 180 degrees AGAIN with a turret traverse slower than hull (sure, you can keep it pointed in right relative direction with right mouse, but what if something comes up along the way?

Or try pushing over a hill without lol rushing/overinvesting. The crap depression and glacial reverse speed plus no armour around gun level will get you every damned time regardless of forward or reverse unless you, well, "just run in" which is only doable in the finishing phases of a match.

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Once upon a time, there were trade-offs used to balance tanks. The Waffle IV and the Jagdtiger have a stupendously good gun. So, it shouldn't also have great armored AND great mobility. That road leads to brokeness...cough...Object 268 version 4...cough.

:QBSeal:

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I should correct my earlier post.

The gun is great until mounted on this thing.

Then it is a heap of shit because it is not possible to leverage it in any way other than bush camping, and the current maps only let you do that when you've already lost.

There are a few ways to leverage a gun like this:

1) Sufficient Speed. If you can go at LT speeds, then you can close in and shoot even fi it's a scattergun in handling.

2) Gun Depression/Handling along with adequate mobility or armour to actually use it without being shot to pieces.

3) Enough Armour i.e. T95/Tort

 

The WTF-4 has none of the above and is seriously making me consider giving up on a grind for the first time in my time in WoT. It was tolerable two years ago but now... ahahahahaha...

263 trashes it in every way possibly relevant.

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On 17/03/2018 at 12:31 AM, Guardian54 said:

It was tolerable two years ago but now... ahahahahaha...

263 trashes it in every way possibly relevant.

It was at its finest 4 y ago, and tolerable up to about 2,5 y ago (great TD nerf). I sold it straight after, moved crew to bufffed JT. Much better platform for 128. Even has not bad camo+ unnerfed VR.

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:31 AM, Guardian54 said:

I should correct my earlier post.

The gun is great until mounted on this thing.

Then it is a heap of shit because it is not possible to leverage it in any way other than bush camping, and the current maps only let you do that when you've already lost.

There are a few ways to leverage a gun like this:

1) Sufficient Speed. If you can go at LT speeds, then you can close in and shoot even fi it's a scattergun in handling.

2) Gun Depression/Handling along with adequate mobility or armour to actually use it without being shot to pieces.

3) Enough Armour i.e. T95/Tort

 

The WTF-4 has none of the above and is seriously making me consider giving up on a grind for the first time in my time in WoT. It was tolerable two years ago but now... ahahahahaha...

263 trashes it in every way possibly relevant.

Well I'd say ~35kph forward is sufficient for a 560-alpha TD. Gun depression and handling is also reasonable if you drive it backward.

You want to compare it with 263? 263 almost can't use binocular, 263 can't corner-poke, 263 can't drive out of a position as fast as this tank

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On 5/25/2018 at 6:31 AM, EthanDuong said:

Well I'd say ~35kph forward is sufficient for a 560-alpha TD. Gun depression and handling is also reasonable if you drive it backward.

You want to compare it with 263? 263 almost can't use binocular, 263 can't corner-poke, 263 can't drive out of a position as fast as this tank

By the time you finish turning around so you can poke without getting lol snapshotted while the hideous reverse speed is failing, or need the gun depression, the battle has often relocated already.

263 has enough armour to survive being spotted for a couple seconds if the worst should come to pass (and the worst ALWAYS comes to pass...).

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