KenyanWarlord

Why I play without XVM - and maybe you should too

88 posts in this topic

I feel before I start this post it should be noted that I'm not like most gamers nowadays. Personally, I find how most gamers act and treat each other is fucking disgusting. Constantly 'pushing each others buttons' or antagonizing each other for no other reason then to garner a reaction really is the issue with many online games, this one included. It's okay to be competitive, but you don't need to be an utter cunt to your fellow players.

With that being said, if you find yourself fitting into the group of cunts who I just described, please try to refrain from polluting this topic and having it divulge into a he said she said forum battle. While I do value your position, try to not be a cunt in the way you state it.

 

Now, I play World of Tanks without XVM or any sort of winrate yadda yadda yadda software. Why? There's many reasons, but the most important ones are from personal experience and the little theories I've theorized for myself.

The first being from first hand experience of playing with XVM in the past, I would often find myself targeting the statistically 'better' players on the enemy team. Why? Because I, on most teams, am one of, if not the, statistically 'best' player so I found it was almost my job to use my own skill against the other 'better' players so that they wouldn't farm damage off my team. I never really thought anything of it, until my stats started to get better and better.

Once my stats reached the point they are today, (this is the part that may just be me being insane) I've noticed that artillery often times shoots at me more often then I see them shooting at other players. I can only assume, then, that these artillery players are using XVM and they see that I am a statistically better player. It doesn't matter if I'm a tier 8 in a tier 10 game or a tier 8 in a tier 8 game, I more often then not find myself being shot at by artillery. While it could be that I'm a more aggressive player, I believe it's more likely that they're running XVM. When I've platooned with friends who have XVM in the past, they've said that there's a little 'X' by peoples name (or something of that sort) who have XVM. It seems as though whenever I'm getting focused fairly hard by artillery that when I ask my friends, they state that the artillery player does indeed have XVM. I've also had a select few times where at the start of games, I'll be in an aggressive position and I'll have a (presumably) less skilled player with an autoloader suicide rush into me, taking off majority of my health, then say in chat something along the lines of, "Did damage to the most important player on the enemy team, don't like this map anyways" or something like that.

Again, that could just be me thinking I'm always getting picked on, but I know that most people often say that when they're playing artillery, they will shoot at the brightest colour on the enemy team. It's a smart thing to do. This is the point, however, where I ask you to re-read what I said at the start and ask yourself which category you fall into. Does you having fun trump everyone else having fun, or do you believe everyone having a mutually good time is more fun? I'm the second option, as stated before. This is the reason why I hardly ever platoon my tier 10 tanks with other people. If I do, it will be offset tanks that don't really work in the same areas, such as a T-62A with my T57 or something of the like. The reason for this being that I know it isn't fun to lose, especially when you're facing statistically superior players in extremely strong platoon tanks. Tier 10 is, obviously, where the strongest tanks are so I try my best to avoid playing them in platoons with other strong players to limit the heartache felt by the opposing team. Especially due to the fact that often times you'll have one statistically strong platoon in a game, with no real opposition on the opposing team who have the teamwork to take them down.

I prefer to play by myself, or with one other friend, knowing that I'm outplaying my opponents one versus one, not just flooding over them with well executed teamwork (due to a platoon). At least in a one versus one, each party has a chance. In a three versus one however, the person alone will be in a much harder position to come out on top.

While that was a little bit off topic, I feel like that was important to say to help possibly make others rethink their stance on playing with XVM, knowing that it effects much more than just you being able to see the skill of other players.

Finally, I ask the statistically superior players of the forum one last question. Does it anger you when you feel as though you're being targeted just because you're better then other people? I can't think of any other game that has a feature such as this where it can have such a drastic effect on the outcome of a game. Due to the fact you only have one life in World of Tanks, that one life really matters. 

In my opinion, XVM only works as an automated targeting system, where instead of seeing how a player is playing and choosing whether or not they're good, you just press tab and decide who you're going to shoot at more then anyone else. I don't feel it adds anything to the game, which is the reason why I've decided to stop using it.

And, I know that there inevitably will be the people who say I'm just a shitter who gets salty about being shot by artillery etc etc and that it's not people targeting statistically better players, but we all know what the true case is.

 

So, maybe, just perhaps, when the next big patch comes out and you have to download your mods again, ask yourself if you really want to use XVM.

 

Thanks for the read. Am I really off with what I've said here or have some of you made the switch to rolling XVM-less? Let me know! :)

*edit Also, I feel it's important to state that while my stance on platooning with other strong players in strong tanks does make it more difficult for me to have 'unicum' stats, the reason I doubt I'll ever change my stance on platooning like that is again, as I stated in the beginning, I believe gaming should be a fun filled experience for everyone involved, with everyone having a fair chance at a win.

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Re: the platooning bit

If you don't have XVM, and can't see anyone's stats, in theory, both teams can still have an equal chance to win, if player skill is factored into the equation, even if you're platooned with 2 super unicums – that platoon on the other team could be a super unicum plat too.

Additionally, stats are merely an indicator of a player's average performance. All players, regardless of skill level, have equal access to the same tools within the game (gold rounds, consumables, equipment, etc.) – there is, in theory, no limiting the deepest of the reds from having a 5-skill BatChat crew and hemorrhaging gold rounds faster than Greece's economy. In that sense, all players have an equal opportunity to win – they are on level ground in terms of tools provided by the game. Nothing is stopping a tomato platoon from doing 5k each and carrying (which they do, once in a blue moon, maybe).

Personally, I use XVM, but I don't use it as a targeting system for the (my) above reasons. 

Spoiler

Plus I'm so much better than all of you anyway so you're all shitters to me 687474703a2f2f66696c65732e67616d6562616e

 

Edited by steveaus
clarity

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11 minutes ago, steveaus said:

Re: the platooning bit

If you don't have XVM, and can't see anyone's stats, in theory, both teams can still have an equal chance to win, if player skill is factored into the equation, even if you're platooned with 2 super unicums – that platoon on the other team could be a super unicum plat too.

Additionally, stats are merely an indicator of a player's average performance. All players, regardless of skill level, have equal access to the same tools within the game (gold rounds, consumables, equipment, etc.) – there is, in theory, no limiting the deepest of the reds from having a 5-skill BatChat crew and hemorrhaging gold rounds faster than Greece's economy. In that sense, all players have an equal opportunity to win – they are on level ground in terms of tools provided by the game. Nothing is stopping a tomato platoon from doing 5k each and carrying (which they do, once in a blue moon, maybe).

Personally, I use XVM, but I don't use it as a targeting system for the above reasons. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Plus I'm so much better than all of you anyway so you're all shitters to me 687474703a2f2f66696c65732e67616d6562616e

 

The NA server has a fairly small population of unicum players and clans. Generally I can tell, whether it be the clan they're from or their familiarity to me, whether or not they're unicums. I know generally the EU players are better and there are more of you, so for your server, you'd be correct. On NA WEST particularly, I, and many others, have noticed the lacking unicum population often leads to extremely lopsided teams. 

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I'm pretty sure most good players will target the most strategically important target, not the unicum in the bottom tier tank.  That's what tomatoes do.

In arty you're best off firing at the easiest target (ie. Batchat unloading a clip from a bush or an E3 locking down a corridor, not some unicum using cover, constantly relocating, etc.)  However, in slow matches unicum may be the only players attempting to light the enemy team, so obviously they're getting shot.

I think one issue aspiring players have is getting greedy with dealing damage or being lazy with relocating (going the quick straight way instead of the long way in cover).  I've been guilty of it myself.

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9 minutes ago, engineered said:

I'm pretty sure most good players will target the most strategically important target, not the unicum in the bottom tier tank.  That's what tomatoes do.

In arty you're best off firing at the easiest target (ie. Batchat unloading a clip from a bush or an E3 locking down a corridor, not some unicum using cover, constantly relocating, etc.)  However, in slow matches unicum may be the only players attempting to light the enemy team, so obviously they're getting shot.

I think one issue aspiring players have is getting greedy with dealing damage or being lazy with relocating (going the quick straight way instead of the long way in cover).  I've been guilty of it myself.

XVM is not solely for unicum players though. Tomatoes use it too.

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9 minutes ago, engineered said:

I'm pretty sure most good players will target the most strategically important target, not the unicum in the bottom tier tank.  That's what tomatoes do.

A unicum at 10% HP has as much chance of damaging you as a unicum at 100% HP, but a dead tomato has a 100% less chance of damaging you compared to one that is alive.

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I think Unicums do a good job of separating themselves emotionally from XVM. I personally play with XVM because there's some huge benefits. One example is just from today. I had a 2v1 in my T30 (1k HP)... against a blue IS3 and a tomato 112. Both were at 75% HP. We were playing on a opposite ends of a small mound and I focused the IS3 first to ensure he died. 112 ended up bouncing my turret and just not being able to play his tank properly. I don't think I win that if I hit the 112 first, given the HP disadvantage and my long reload.

XVM focus is real... and even unicums do it. But if you get so focused by the numbers and play passive and do stupid shit like YOLO the purple player into an open crossfire or something... then you should maybe consider uninstalling it.

Oh and I don't get upset for getting focused anymore. I've taken enough punches to the face... its numb now.

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If you play lower tiers, XVM is a gamechanger.

I am often in tier 3-5 games where my xvm is 2-3 x better than the next one, and the rest of ppl have sub 500 WN 8.

Now, if I kill my fellow sealclubber first, match is pretty much won.

Also, If i see a sealclubber platoon I must play campy to let my pubbies wear them off first, and ambush them in a way.

I often won sub 20% games by chai sniping in lower tiers...if I played more aggressively that could not be the case.

Also, if I see a 70% chance to win in lower tiers, my death often results that turning into a 40% one...so must be extra careful.

P.S. In Pz.Kpfw. B2 740 (f) it is easy to rush noobs unless they have autopen guns like su 85 b...decent players shred you...

6-7 tiers xvm is still useful, if you look not in overall player stats, but the results in a particular tank. sometimes you detect stock enemies just by looking on players panel.

For 8-10 tiers, xvm is detrimental IMHO.

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34 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

XVM is not solely for unicum players though. Tomatoes use it too.

Right, so why would you play without it when it provides you with some useful info?  The only reason to not use it is if you let the win% get to you or do other irrational things with the xvm info.

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well i don't use XVM cause i have a bad feeling that it may affect my gameplay due to the prediction mod it has and the fact it shows other people stats (not to mention, i prefer vanilla WoT anyways XD (please don't kill me))

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4 minutes ago, engineered said:

Right, so why would you play without it when it provides you with some useful info?  The only reason to not use it is if you let the win% get to you or do other irrational things with the xvm info.

Because that useful info turns into an, in my opinion, unfair advantage over the opposing team. 

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15 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Because that useful info turns into an, in my opinion, unfair advantage over the opposing team. 

Nothing's stopping them from downloading XVM, though.

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I would use any mod that is allowed. XVM is just the start, others are more useful. Reload timers, arty reload timers, hitskins...team hp bars...

I like to know when opponents spam gold on me, too...If they are poor I can bully with E 75, if not I must be more careful.

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24 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Because that useful info turns into an, in my opinion, unfair advantage over the opposing team. 

This sounds awfully close to 'shooting gold is cheating and unfair'.

XVM is part of the game... no one is going to un-invent it anytime soon. To tell people to uninstall it to promote fair play is a very long and uphill battle that you won't win.

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1 minute ago, SONOFABENCH said:

This sounds awfully close to 'shooting gold is cheating and unfair'.

XVM is part of the game... no one is going to un-invent it anytime soon. To tell people to uninstall it to promote fair play is a very long and uphill battle that you won't win.

Not once did I tell people to uninstall it. And gold is part of stock world of tanks. XVM is a mod which majority of the players don't use, let alone know exists.

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2 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Not once did I tell people to uninstall it. And gold is part of stock world of tanks. XVM is a mod which majority of the players don't use, let alone know exists.

I never said you did. But I think we can both agree where you stand on this topic... by you advocating it with your opinion.

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If we're going to subscribe to the ideology that XVM is both unfair and an advantage, you're telling me to cripple myself for... what? Why should I go into matches without xvm when many of the players I'm fighting against will have this advantage over me? All I've done is take an unfair advantage in my favor and turn it into an unfair advantage in my opponents' favor. The only benefit I gain is what, the illusion of a moral high ground over them? Come on.

It almost feels like the real purpose of the topic was to vent. I'm not impressed.

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2 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

If we're going to subscribe to the ideology that XVM is both unfair and an advantage, you're telling me to cripple myself for... what? Why should I go into matches without xvm when many of the players I'm fighting against will have this advantage over me? All I've done is take an unfair advantage in my favor and turn it into an unfair advantage in my opponents' favor. The only benefit I gain is what, the illusion of a moral high ground over them? Come on.

It almost feels like the real purpose of the topic was to vent. I'm not impressed.

Then maybe you should re-read the post. Never once did I mention a moral high ground, etc. The only thing close to that I mentioned is allowing your opponents to have just as much fun as you are. You're clearly a fairly good player, no matter how you play, whether it be platooned or whichever else, so my challenge to you is to take away the advantage you've had for probably years over your opponents. And, due to the fact majority of WoT doesn't use XVM, I would hardly say it puts you at a disadvantage. Moreso, it puts you on even (even though you 10x better then most) ground with most players.

 

Much like how there will always be that player who fires all gold - nothing you can do about it, and you're at a disadvantage to him. However, I don't see you shooting all gold in return.

 

Just food for thought.

 

and p.s I don't really care if you're impressed or not, no offence. not gonna kiss your ass like a lot of people on here do.

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14 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Not once did I tell people to uninstall it. And gold is part of stock world of tanks. XVM is a mod which majority of the players don't use, let alone know exists.

A large proportion of the tanking population do not fire premium ammo, or fire it extremely rarely. Some of them don't even realise that you can buy it with credits. Maybe a little surprising if you're used to WoTLabs world-of-goldspam. WG could kill XVM if they wanted to, and they could kill premium ammo if they wanted to, so it's an equivalent argument.

I suspect focusing better players is pretty rare, and inflated from occasional anecdotes. Most people just shoot at the easiest targets, with or without XVM. As far as I could tell, the main negative use of XVM by the idiot masses was to whine about their noob team before the game started and then jump in the lake. Reason enough to ban the thing IMO, but apparently WG like that stuff.

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Main reasons I don't use XVM:

1. I'm a simpleton and I get distracted by all the bright colors.

2. Seeing wave after wave of red gets depressing.

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2 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Then maybe you should re-read the post. Never once did I mention a moral high ground, etc.

Your entire argument is based around how it's morally "right" to share your "fun" with other players by taking away any "unfair" advantages you have over them. Considering my opponents are not going to give me the same treatment, the only benefit out of this is that I have the moral high ground. You do understand this is what you're implying, right? Or are you simply suggesting we cripple ourselves for literally no benefit whatsoever?

6 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

my challenge to you is to take away the advantage you've had for probably years over your opponents..

Not to burst your bubble, but I rarely use XVM's stats. Pubbies are the ones who've had this advantage over me the whole time, not the other way around. Why don't I mind? Because the entire issue of XVM sniping is grossly exaggerated. This is coming from a purple. You're a green or blue depending on the XVM config, I cant imagine whats causing you to think you are being singled out is such a big problem. I don't feel a difference in my performance with it enabled, so why clutter my screen?

28 minutes ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Much like how there will always be that player who fires all gold - nothing you can do about it, and you're at a disadvantage to him. However, I don't see you shooting all gold in return.

If I'm not, it's because I cant afford it. If firing gold will be a noticeable advantage, I'm going to fire gold. Likewise, if pubbies are going to know what my stats are, then I deserve to know their stats too. Not that XVM is 1/100th as powerful of a tool as gold ammo...

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15 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Your entire argument is based around how it's morally "right" to share your "fun" with other players by taking away any "unfair" advantages you have over them. Considering my opponents are not going to give me the same treatment, the only benefit out of this is that I have the moral high ground. You do understand this is what you're implying, right? Or are you simply suggesting we cripple ourselves for literally no benefit whatsoever?

Not to burst your bubble, but I rarely use XVM's stats. Pubbies are the ones who've had this advantage over me the whole time, not the other way around. Why don't I mind? Because the entire issue of XVM sniping is grossly exaggerated. This is coming from a purple. You're a green or blue depending on the XVM config, I cant imagine whats causing you to think you are being singled out is such a big problem. I don't feel a difference in my performance with it enabled, so why clutter my screen?

If I'm not, it's because I cant afford it. If firing gold will be a noticeable advantage, I'm going to fire gold. Likewise, if pubbies are going to know what my stats are, then I deserve to know their stats too. Not that XVM is 1/100th as powerful of a tool as gold ammo...

And I value my morals, where you clearly don't. I'd much rather put myself at a disadvantage but not feel dirty afterwards then put myself in an unfair position over my enemies.

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If you're good, of course you're going to get more attention. That's how competition works. I played some sports during my time in middle/high school. In basketball, we had these little things called scouting reports. Literally the RL version of XVM, broke down how good every player was and how much of a threat they were to us. The best players got double teamed come game time, and were denied when off-ball. That's just the way it goes. There's nothing unfair about it. Annoying, maybe. But not unfair.

 

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1 hour ago, KenyanWarlord said:

Not once did I tell people to uninstall it. And gold is part of stock world of tanks. XVM is a mod which majority of the players don't use, let alone know exists.

XVM is available to everyone just like turning on minimap view circles in game, or are those an unfair advantage as well since they aren't on by default?

Looking at my team panels, it looks like at least 50% of players are using XVM (the x next to their name indicates xvm usage).

The truth is most players (yellows and under) won't get any advantage from XVM because they don't know how to use that info wisely (like wasting shells on a well angled unicum vs a sure shot at the side of a tomato).

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You're talking to the wrong crowd if you're looking for support. This is WotLabs. This is a place where people come to gain an edge over the competition. XVM is not illegal. XVM does give you an advantage. I supported/understood your original point which was XVM should not be used if it was affecting your decision making and overall gameplay... but somehow this turned into what I think was your underlying motive... 'level the playing field'.

Kindly take this trash to the Main server where you'll find it better accepted.

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