1,145 posts in this topic

We already have extremely forgiving heavy tanks, make them more idiot proof and you can't work out how that isn't pandering to idiots?

Make a noob friendly tank more noob friendly is the most obvious dumbing down you can get.

Soft mediums, lights and TDs have a high skill ceiling, make them harder to play (which is exactly what sandbox did to those tanks, basically made them all useless and way beyond the average player) and you obsolete them, you kill them for the average player.

I mean it's not like the game is full of E5s, IS7s and E100s, hardly see all those red bobs queuing up to play their Cent AXs and leopard 1s do you?  

And yes heavy tanks should be raped in the side with ease, that is the whole point, that is why you don't yolo into 5 enemies and let them surround you or push down a flank without having your flanks covered by your team, again the whole point is the team works together to secure map control.  Not RRR down a flank and bounce everything, which is basically what sandbox was trying to create.

Watching Leopards bounce off the flat sides of an E100 at like 200m, yeh that's not at all dumbing down the game.  

Sandbox was world of dumb heavy tanks, every change there basically directly or indirectly buffed heavy tanks, when they do not need buffing. 

Re-balance arty and premium ammo, those two changes alone represent a direct buff to every heavy in the game that would probably make them OP in the current meta.

Sandbox, they buffed heavies in a bout 6 different ways and then wondered why a Maus was too strong, durrr. 

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The Maus/Type 5 buffs almost confirms that WG has trashed parts of Sandbox. So tbh i wouldnt expect large changes in penetrations or pen drops over distance. The only change i would see is that gold pen will be nerfed all around by 20 - 30mm.

Sandbox had both good and bad stuff: view range nerf, arty changes in general, HP nerf, alpha nerf on mega alpha guns, and tanks being much more "balanced" (not perfect because heavies master race meta but better than current tier 10; no deathstar HESH, no mega alpha + autoloader (foch), E5, TVP and hovermeds nerfed and some tanks like AMX 30B buffed). The armor stuff and sigma nerf was more or less worst thing about sandbox. At first, it felt GREAT, because "hurrdurr i am a taip faiv hevi, literal godzilla, i am unstoppable, fear meeee dingdingdingdingsdfgdsgds". Then when i thinked deeper, it was retarded. Superheavies spamming HE at each other because they wouldnt otherwise penetrate was...retarded. Really retarded. Type 5 and Maus in particural were so stupid that they would just go RRR through Steppes middle and survive until end of battle; because tell me, what would stop them?

Just introduce some parts of Sandbox. It wouldnt require ENTIRE overhaul of tier 10, even though that tier does need notable balance changes. No need to start from completely clean table, though.

Just...

- buff and nerf tanks: buff 30B and Leo 1 from mediums, Maus and Type 5 are already getting buffs, buff IS-7's mobility but nerf hull armor (IIRC it had weaker UFP and much less spaced armor on sides; would fit on the branch better anyway and would still keep its signature superturret),

- rework TDs: 183s (remove AP shells (they never had them historically), nerf HESH damage to 1250 and make it regular ammo, buff gun handling (slightly, more on FV4005) and ammo count (to 15 on 183 and 18 on 4005); on 183 buff mobility (buff terrain resists), and on FV4005 buff depression to -7, give it full turret, more health, and give it Conway's top engine), jageru (nerf alpha, buff HP and buff RoF to compensate), E4 (sorta fine, nerf penetration to 280 / 340, buff HP to 2500 and slightly buff armor (NOT to E5 levels though, mostly buff the turret cheeks and slightly buff cupola, AGAIN not into E5 levels), and it really is HT that trades some armor + full turret for really punchy gun), E3 (sorta fine, just nerf pen like with E4 and buff something else, OR give it 120mm with good DPM + gun handling + good pen), 268 (give it same gun handling as on Sandbox (ONE second faster aim time, much better dispersion when turning) expect not as good accuracy (because sigma should stay the way it is now, so its about same), depression to -6 or -7, and then finally nerf HEAT to 350, and its fine), and finally, for Foch (more or less give Sandbox changes, 120mm autloader with 4 shells and 2 sec intra, good gun handling and decent DPM, much more health it has now. Then give it 50mm side armor and remain mobility untouched). 263 is more or less fine.

- slightly nerf gold ammo (but dont remove it; if you remove gold Sandbox's heavies-spamming-HE-at-each-other-meta will come back).

- bring arty changes (expect rework stun a bit, ALSO JUST FUCKING REMOVE AUTOLOADER FROM BATSHIT ARTY)

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3 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I mean it's not like the game is full of E5s, IS7s and E100s, hardly see all those red bobs queuing up to play their Cent AXs and leopard 1s do you?  

All i see are droves of tier 10 mediums, game after game filled with mediums, and ofc OP E5 and tards in autoloaders (T57 tank of the month, jeuj -.-)

Nobody drives a maus or type 5, E100 is also not that popular (despite all the tanks before it beiing among the most played tanks in the game)

could be ofc time of the day, but when i play tier 10, 2/3 of the games its filled with mediums / TDs, and not heavys (and i know this 100% sure because i have missions where i need to kill heavys, and so do my platoon mates, and no heavys to be seen, last week somebody in platoon had a mission, and like 5 games in a row just 1 tier 10 heavy each game, GG missions, entire evening perhaps 1 or 2 games where it was possible to do the mission...

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Part of what is so infuriating is a giant chunk of the game's problems go away if they just nerf the fucking gold ammo and do some minor tweaks to tank balance in general. Want to frontally engage a heavy with a medium? Sure, but you only do 2/3 the damage he will do to you. You can still potentially outplay him, but he has the appropriate advantage a heavy should possess in that scenario. You want full damage, then get flank shots or hit (easily protected) weak spots. There, the superior pen of TDs is actually useful, meds want to flank but aren't totally fucked when they can't, heavies are actually heavies. You've adequately resolved the entire tank role balance dilemma, was that really so goddamn hard? But no, we can't have nice things because FREEMIUM IS THE FUTURE BRAH

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Nerf gold ammo, are you all insane? Yeah maybe if you only play tier X that might be doble, playing anything below tier IX with liitle to no gold is a nightmare. The amount of wothless tanks the game already has in the lower tiers is retarded, yeah the T-54's heat is op as fuck and some other tank's gold ammo also (but you know WG balnket nerfs of buffs), with the worthless MM this game has, remove gold ammo and no one will grind anything else. They only need to make 4 changes, and they will never do it because they don't care as long as they can keep milking the cows 1)  remove arty from the game 2) reduce RNG to 10% (15% maximum) 3) make MM +1/-1 4) remake every single map except Himmelsdorf (and maybe Steppes)

They will never do the first one cuase they will crash the game's economy, so they could make it like AW that whenever you shoot your arty you're spotted for the enemy arty.

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1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

could be ofc time of the day, but when i play tier 10, 2/3 of the games its filled with mediums / TDs, and not heavys (and i know this 100% sure because i have missions where i need to kill heavys, and so do my platoon mates, and no heavys to be seen, last week somebody in platoon had a mission, and like 5 games in a row just 1 tier 10 heavy each game, GG missions, entire evening perhaps 1 or 2 games where it was possible to do the mission...

 

Odd, I need to deal 4k damage to TDs and all I seem to come across are heavies. :serb:

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I love the fact that every time people discuss class balance the argument "Buffing [class I don't like to play] like that is just making it more noob friendly at the cost of [class I do like to play]. Why are WG pandering to idiots like this?" gets thrown around by all sides in the argument. Even better is that no one can agree on what class is actually the most noob friendly one, be it arty (point and click), td (kemp bush), heavys (rrr + autoaim) or mediums (22). (Also I am waiting for someone to make a serious and well-founded argument about why lights are the most noob friendly.) It is such a worthless argument and yet everybody makes it thinking that it is going to work this time despite failing every time before.

 

 

3 hours ago, Nkrlz said:

Nerf gold ammo, are you all insane? Yeah maybe if you only play tier X that might be doble, playing anything below tier IX with liitle to no gold is a nightmare. The amount of wothless tanks the game already has in the lower tiers is retarded, yeah the T-54's heat is op as fuck and some other tank's gold ammo also (but you know WG balnket nerfs of buffs), with the worthless MM this game has, remove gold ammo and no one will grind anything else. They only need to make 4 changes, and they will never do it because they don't care as long as they can keep milking the cows 1)  remove arty from the game 2) reduce RNG to 10% (15% maximum) 3) make MM +1/-1 4) remake every single map except Himmelsdorf (and maybe Steppes)

They will never do the first one cuase they will crash the game's economy, so they could make it like AW that whenever you shoot your arty you're spotted for the enemy arty.

 

I can play those tiers wo any gold, why cant you?

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5 hours ago, jem said:

I love the fact that every time people discuss class balance the argument "Buffing [class I don't like to play] like that is just making it more noob friendly at the cost of [class I do like to play]. Why are WG pandering to idiots like this?" gets thrown around by all sides in the argument. Even better is that no one can agree on what class is actually the most noob friendly one, be it arty (point and click), td (kemp bush), heavys (rrr + autoaim) or mediums (22). (Also I am waiting for someone to make a serious and well-founded argument about why lights are the most noob friendly.) It is such a worthless argument and yet everybody makes it thinking that it is going to work this time despite failing every time before.

 

 

 

I can play those tiers wo any gold, why cant you?

Sorry i didn't know that you can pen KV-1 or OI, o T150s or Oni's or ohos or E75s or VKbs or is6, 3, etc, etc, etc. releably without gold with every shitty tank there's around. You can also can perfectly play the Jagdpanzer iV without gold, no? (and the short 88 of course). I mean who cannot end with decent damge result in the 12T without gold.

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When I played the flatpanzer MM was +-3. I must say it went decently, all things considered. When I played the 12t it had even lover pen (and was a tier lower) and it was a relief to upgrade to the 13 75 since you now had the mobility to get around a lot easier. Considering it was my first encounter with scout tanks I say it went well. Kv1s are easy to pen as long as you are not a t3, the japs have big flat sides that are just candy for anything and the same thing goes for the rest of that list. You see, when I started playing there was +-3 MM and gold ammo was only for gold. So I learned to be effective anyway. Thus I still remember the lost arts of flanking, aiming and being an annoying pita as well as not engaging heavy tanks from the front when I can flank or run away.

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Yeah so, you played those tank in the middle of the vision meta when, on top of that, TD's didn't have their view ranges nerfed to shit. I cat easly kill you in my KV-1 against the flat panzer in any map that's not proko/fiery nor malinovka.

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On 18.10.2016 at 8:28 PM, GehakteMolen said:

All i see are droves of tier 10 mediums, game after game filled with mediums, and ofc OP E5 and tards in autoloaders (T57 tank of the month, jeuj -.-)

Nobody drives a maus or type 5, E100 is also not that popular (despite all the tanks before it beiing among the most played tanks in the game)

could be ofc time of the day, but when i play tier 10, 2/3 of the games its filled with mediums / TDs, and not heavys (and i know this 100% sure because i have missions where i need to kill heavys, and so do my platoon mates, and no heavys to be seen, last week somebody in platoon had a mission, and like 5 games in a row just 1 tier 10 heavy each game, GG missions, entire evening perhaps 1 or 2 games where it was possible to do the mission...

IS7, E100 are not popular because low base pen. many reds don't spam gold on principle and they can't handle low pen, derpy guns so any amount of buffs wont help it.

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1 hour ago, Nkrlz said:

Yeah so, you played those tank in the middle of the vision meta when, on top of that, TD's didn't have their view ranges nerfed to shit. I can't easly fuck you in my KV-1 against the flat panzer in any map that's not proko/fiery nor malinovka.

No, this was actually long before any "vision meta" came into effect. It was however the t5 kv2, t6 kv3 "meta" I had to deal with with even less pen on the l/56. Current kv1 is a walk in the park compared to that and (and I am here assuming that you mean that your kv1 can easily eat me instead of the opposite that you wrote.......) why the hell should I face you one on one on even ground when I have a whole team that I fully intend to abuse.

 

Don't believe me? Give me enough gold for a crew retrain and Ill play a couple matches in any one of them. But lets take it somewhere else if you are interested in that.

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On 10/18/2016 at 2:28 PM, GehakteMolen said:

CONFIRMATION BIAS

@Nkrlz I don't think anyone is saying remove gold at all tiers. Tier 10 gold could theoretically be removed or nerfed, though. They don't have to deal with +2 MM. You'd have to fix the corridor problem or anything lightly armored is useless, but it's certainly possible at tier 10 only. 

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Everything thats wrong with tier 10 in 1 screenshot:

shot_869.jpg

  • 3 arty
  • autoloader tards everywhere
  • No heavys
  • too much medium mongrels (my platoon tier 10 meds yolo charged enemy autoloaders)
  • a few random TDs as extra fu

I got hit for 980 by a SU-14-1, had to hide behind a rock rest of game, and got killed by an Amx-120 (after beiing splashed for 300 by a CGC who blew up the 183 next to me), GG, 

Sandbox > the c***** which is current tier 10

next tard game:

 
Spoiler
 
shot_870.jpg
 
shot_872.jpg
 
 

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51 minutes ago, BoilerBandsman said:

@Nkrlz I don't think anyone is saying remove gold at all tiers. Tier 10 gold could theoretically be removed or nerfed, though. They don't have to deal with +2 MM. You'd have to fix the corridor problem or anything lightly armored is useless, but it's certainly possible at tier 10 only. 

If they somehow rework almost every single map, and do something or other with arty, tier X could live with shitty gold (except the E100, or buff the rate of fire on the 128 a LOT). But WG loves to apply blanket changes, they have done that most of the time (like the TD cam/view range nerf, making a lot of tds pointless, they didn't even bother to sparete td's in 2 groups paper tanks/armored tanks, they just fucked everybody).

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@all im really amazed that you all think that WG cann just buff / nerf a few tanks and fix everything

It wont work, since it never did

not now, and not ever, if they really ditch sandbox, (or atleast, everything except the arty and TD changes) we will see a ton of retarded buffs and nerfs, just look at the WG track record, both nerfing, replacing and buffing always takes ages and ages, and it never fixes mucb (yeah, Vk-B went from crippled to ``statistical fine``, while its super annoying to play and OP in triple platoon, 1 tier 9 tank which aint popular is not a big problem, but hordes of Maus or Type 5? same WG nerfing is also not ``reducing a bit``, its ``brutal rape it with and axe, revive it, put it on fire and burn it alive``

With sandbox we had a bit of influence, we knew what would be comming and it would be a complete package, with ordinary nerfs and buffs, it will be full yolo, depending entirely on Serb hes mood, weather, RNG, and which WG devs hes favorite tank is suffering...

Because believe me WG WILL make heavy tanks better no matter the cost / consequences... (and it wont be enough, unless they put everything from sandbox in, tier 10 tanks as a class need a nerf, many specific tanks need nerfs, all TDs need total rebalance and many mediums need to be ``rebalanced / redefined``, as long as a T62 is a better sniper as 268, an E100 can herp derp fuck up any tier 10 TD, and mediums can gold ammo spam tier 10 heavys to dead from 500m, tier 10 wont ever be balanced, even if WG gives all heavys 3k hp and all TDs 1k dmg alpha dmg...

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13 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

@all im really amazed that you all think that WG cann just buff / nerf a few tanks and fix everything

It wont work, since it never did

not now, and not ever, if they really ditch sandbox, (or atleast, everything except the arty and TD changes) we will see a ton of retarded buffs and nerfs, just look at the WG track record, both nerfing, replacing and buffing always takes ages and ages, and it never fixes mucb (yeah, Vk-B went from crippled to ``statistical fine``, while its super annoying to play and OP in triple platoon, 1 tier 9 tank which aint popular is not a big problem, but hordes of Maus or Type 5? same WG nerfing is also not ``reducing a bit``, its ``brutal rape it with and axe, revive it, put it on fire and burn it alive``

With sandbox we had a bit of influence, we knew what would be comming and it would be a complete package, with ordinary nerfs and buffs, it will be full yolo, depending entirely on Serb hes mood, weather, RNG, and which WG devs hes favorite tank is suffering...

Because believe me WG WILL make heavy tanks better no matter the cost / consequences... (and it wont be enough, unless they put everything from sandbox in, tier 10 tanks as a class need a nerf, many specific tanks need nerfs, all TDs need total rebalance and many mediums need to be ``rebalanced / redefined``, as long as a T62 is a better sniper as 268, an E100 can herp derp fuck up any tier 10 TD, and mediums can gold ammo spam tier 10 heavys to dead from 500m, tier 10 wont ever be balanced, even if WG gives all heavys 3k hp and all TDs 1k dmg alpha dmg...

The game sells becasue it's quick, it's like the CoD of 3rd person shotters, make it slow and people will abondon the fucking game. You want the let's fell asleep twice in every match meta, go play ships, RNG for everyone!

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1 minute ago, Nkrlz said:

The game sells becasue it's quick, it's like the CoD of 3rd person shotters, make it slow and people will abondon the fucking game. You want the let's fell asleep twice in every match meta, go play ships, RNG for everyone!

The game time / duration never changed much, and all i see on wotlabs (and when scrolling official forum) is people complaining about games beiing too fast, 15-0 and other remarks which come down to: games are over too quick...

Or to say it a bit arrogant: I have never been totally ``wrong`` when i guestimate the general direction of the game, and i say right here, right now: I guestimate that WG will further buff heavys / nerf everything else, you can think its nonsense, but Serb hes answers and sandbox only further strengthen my case (imo) just a reminder though i said 3 years ago, after 8.6:

Now we are in a ``turning period``, big arty nerf means:
- huge drop of arty
- massive rise of TD
- huge drop of light (coz of less arty and more tds)

however this will also be countered, coz there now so much tds (and thus so little heavys) that medium have more room to move around, also far less light tank, less arty, and more tds, means its now EASIER for arty, so in the next weeks/months the amount of arty will slowly increase again (and more arty means less tds, the numbers will drop, ppl get bored of it, go play arty again etc)

i guess the current situation is ``balanced``, arty can still ruin the day of any td, but its not so strong it makes td play impossible

side effect is heavy tanks have it now HARDER as before, coz TDs are better heavy counters as arty....

wot balance is something like:  arty -> TD -> Heavy -> medium -> light -> Arty

And guess what happend last 3 years:

  • TD tards everywhere, followed by super mega camp,
  • Heavys becoming totally obsolete (despite the arty nerf!!)
  • ``camo sniping`` with mediums new meta

So WG started to nerf TDs and buff heavys + change maps to counter this, turned out i was totally right, and only fools thought something different would happen (many considered tier 10 TDs to be not ``that OP``, while the reality was: more tds in your team = bigger winchance

 

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On 10/18/2016 at 9:26 AM, leggasiini said:

At first, it felt GREAT, because "hurrdurr i am a taip faiv hevi, literal godzilla, i am unstoppable, fear meeee dingdingdingdingsdfgdsgds". Then when i thinked deeper, it was retarded. Superheavies spamming HE at each other because they wouldnt otherwise penetrate was...retarded. Really retarded. Type 5 and Maus in particural were so stupid that they would just go RRR through Steppes middle and survive until end of battle; because tell me, what would stop them?

That latter part was never reality, though.  Heavies that pushed in the open with exposed flanks would die on SB just like they do on live (even with regular rounds).  It didn't happen as fast as on live given the Acc and dispersion changes but it still happened.

The only time, and the one map, where I saw HE lobbing (which I concur was just horrible gameplay) was SW corner of Karelia.  On so many other maps on Sandbox there was more than enough cover for heavies to get close and when they did they died from regular AP rounds.  Again not as fast as on live but it was still reality. 

The whole 'heavies just press W and win' thing was a myth.  Mediums were viable early on in SB, even when gold rounds were very limited, due to their view range and mobility advantage (which is how they should be viable, not from simply pressing 2).  By the end of SB, when everyone was sitting on tons of gold, heavies basically disappeared from the game completely and matches were full of swarming meds with full gold loadouts (which just reinforces, as many on here have mentioned, that the biggest issue with the game right now is the current implementation of gold rounds).  If the goal of SB was to make the big, lumbering beasts more viable it was ultimately a failure.  They enjoyed some success early on when gold rounds were limited (since you only received a small amount of gold per day per login) but once those limits disappeared and gold rounds would be as plentiful as we see on live heavies didn't really have much going for them.

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9 hours ago, Illy said:

That latter part was never reality, though.  Heavies that pushed in the open with exposed flanks would die on SB just like they do on live (even with regular rounds).  It didn't happen as fast as on live given the Acc and dispersion changes but it still happened.

The only time, and the one map, where I saw HE lobbing (which I concur was just horrible gameplay) was SW corner of Karelia.  On so many other maps on Sandbox there was more than enough cover for heavies to get close and when they did they died from regular AP rounds.  Again not as fast as on live but it was still reality. 

The whole 'heavies just press W and win' thing was a myth.  Mediums were viable early on in SB, even when gold rounds were very limited, due to their view range and mobility advantage (which is how they should be viable, not from simply pressing 2).  By the end of SB, when everyone was sitting on tons of gold, heavies basically disappeared from the game completely and matches were full of swarming meds with full gold loadouts (which just reinforces, as many on here have mentioned, that the biggest issue with the game right now is the current implementation of gold rounds).  If the goal of SB was to make the big, lumbering beasts more viable it was ultimately a failure.  They enjoyed some success early on when gold rounds were limited (since you only received a small amount of gold per day per login) but once those limits disappeared and gold rounds would be as plentiful as we see on live heavies didn't really have much going for them.

yeah, Wz-121 and STB-1 were probably the best tier 10 tanks, even with only AP load out (for testing purposes i ran zero gold ammo all the time)

Imo anothe radical change, which would also work, is too outright remove all tier 10 gold ammo, aswell as all tier 9 gold ammo with same guns (so leopard losing HEAT mans PTA also looses this) it ofc means some rebalancing is needed, especially certain gold ammo would nerf a serious nerf, but this would also greatly improve the game (and even with sandbox pen drop, full AP load out worked fine, so it should also be fine on live server)

Tier 4-8 can still use gold ammo, so off-set the tier gap when bottom tier, and the lost income can be compensated by simply reducing the credit income of tier 10 tanks / increase repair cost

But WG wont ever have the balls to remove gold ammo (from just tier 10 and a bunch of tier 9 tanks)

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Quote

That latter part was never reality, though.  Heavies that pushed in the open with exposed flanks would die on SB just like they do on live (even with regular rounds).

Er, yeah, actually they could just rrr pretty effectively on open maps. I recall one of the best SB game examples, I'm in a TD with 2 other TDs at the end of the tree line on Prok. 3 retards in heavies just sort of wander down spread out like dipshits. Their side is 3 baddies in heavies, we have 3 TDs including a purple. According to basic common sense we should win that engagement handily, we have the one skilled player, we're all in TDs in a bushy range fight, vs. 3 retards in heavies lumbering in the open. I abused the bush mechanics to keep the heavies lit and fired HE at long range since I couldn't hit weak spots at 300m+ reliably, and HE tracks frequently to slow their forward movement. My other two TDs were free to fire at will until they got close. At range we were just hammering the lead tank for eons with minimal effect, as I kept tracking him while my baddies blasted away impotently. Once they got close enough I switched to AP and hammered weak points while still abusing bush physics. By the time all was said and done each side lost 1 tank, 1 was nearly dead, and 1 remained uninjured. The remaining 2 heavies backed off and the engagement was effectively a draw.

On the 1-2 line of Prok TDs can't win against heavies all else being equal. The HP gap was so massive and the durability so great they really could just rrr and overrun anything on SB, even in worst case scenarios. Had the heavies actually all committed and pushed as one, we would have lost. Had they had one good player, or my side not had me (I was never even lit the whole time because of vision mechanic abuse), we would have lost. Even in the worst case scenario for them the heavies were basically on par with the TDs and arguably superior because they had the option of winning that fight by attacking, while TDs should not even attempt to push. And then the other 2/3 maps in the game are HURRDURR Stalingrad and it's gfuckin'g. You give even the baddies a few months to realize the full potential of heavyheavyheavy RRR and there would no longer be any uncertainty, on SB they were all still timid because they've been programmed to expect to die horribly doing stuff that stupid.

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1 hour ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Er, yeah, actually they could just rrr petty effectively on open maps. I recall one of the best SB game examples, I'm in a TD with 2 other TDs at the end of the tree line on Prok. 3 retards in heavies just sort of wander down spread out like dipshits. Their side is 3 baddies in heavies, we have 3 TDs including a purple. According to basic common sense we should win that engagement handily, we have the one skilled player, we're all in TDs in a bushy range fight, vs. 3 retards in heavies lumbering in the open. I abused the bush mechanics to keep the heavies lit and fired HE at long range since I couldn't hit weak spots at 300m+ reliably, and HE tracks frequently to slow their forward movement. My other two TDs were free to fire at will until they got close. At range we were just hammering the lead tank for eons with minimal effect, as I kept tracking him while my baddies blasted away impotently. Once they got close enough I switched to AP and hammered weak points while still abusing bush physics. By the time all was said and done each side lost 1 tank, 1 was nearly dead, and 1 remained uninjured. The remaining 2 heavies backed off and the engagement was effectively a draw.

On the 1-2 line of Prok TDs can't win against heavies all else being equal. The HP gap was so massive and the durability so great they really could just rrr and overrun anything on SB, even in worst case scenarios. Had the heavies actually all committed and pushed as one, we would have lost. Had they had one good player, or my side not had me (I was never even lit the whole time because of vision mechanic abuse), we would have lost. Even in the worst case scenario for them the heavies were basically on par with the TDs and arguably superior because they had the option of winning that fight by attacking, while TDs should not even attempt to push. And then the other 2/3 maps in the game are HURRDURR Stalingrad and it's gfuckin'g. You give even the baddies a few months to realize the full potential of heavyheavyheavy RRR and there would no longer be any uncertainty, on SB they were all still timid because they've been programmed to expect to die horribly doing stuff that stupid.

Was that a frontal engagement for both sides?  If so then I can understand how it turned out.  The key thing I mentioned was exposed sides against a mobile opponent (which wasn't as clearly stated).  Most of my games on SB, from the beginning with basically no gold rounds to the end where gold wasn't an issue, were in mediums.  Regardless of where a heavy pushed on Prok I could maneuver to his side to engage him at range or up close.  The latter was a guaranteed kill in any medium since the heavies were so immobile.

That's what made SB enjoyable for me - mediums were now about mobility and you had to use that to win (someone on here several pages back mentioned how so many med drivers have been spoiled by gold rounds on live and I have to agree, if they weren't succeeding on SB with meds then it was a L2P issue).  Even on the urban maps you could employ that mobility to own heavy drivers.  My impression at the end was that that mobility advantage was still too great and they needed to bring the two classes closer (the best route would have been bringing heavies up some, they were just too sluggish bordering on boring to play).

I know you couldn't do the above in a TD.  They were the one class that I felt got screwed over in SB.  The Acc and dispersion changes made long range fire to the front of an enemy basically impossible (unless it's HE spam... which is not fun and just stupid, RNG heavy gameplay) and at tier 10 most of those TDs didn't have the mobility to maneuver on a heavy.

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6 minutes ago, DHP said:

Am i the only one who see's the end (and never coming back) of the sandbox with these kind of changes ? 

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2016/10/21/german-heavy-supertest-changes/

No ur not, this is exactly what i have been thinking about since Type 4/5 buffs appeared on supertest.

I guess that along with recent HD buffs confirms that WG wont implement "armor" buffs from Sandbox, but instead by just buffing armor values. I still think that some (good) things fror SB, like view range changes, arty overhaul and tier 10 TD rework should happen, though.

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