leggasiini

ISU-152 appreciation thread

101 posts in this topic

46 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

Who the hell kemps bush in ISU?  Follow the heavies, shoot what they shoot, crush their dreams.

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ehhh just wondering so is rhm borsig or isu better for the t55a td missions? i am at the sturer emil, and can research the su85 from the t34... rhm is easier to get tho

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10 hours ago, garryallen said:

ehhh just wondering so is rhm borsig or isu better for the t55a td missions? i am at the sturer emil, and can research the su85 from the t34... rhm is easier to get tho

ISU is better.

I did quite a lot of missions with it, even while I owned waffle E-100 (i sucked in it, I admit), and waffle 4 (was great 2 y ago, now is meh).

But Jagdtiger does them even easier. When I play it every 4-5 game i see i have done one, without even trying (gold helps the Jag more than ISU, running Food in ISU is more worth it)....

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22 hours ago, Felicius said:

ISU is better.

I did quite a lot of missions with it, even while I owned waffle E-100 (i sucked in it, I admit), and waffle 4 (was great 2 y ago, now is meh).

But Jagdtiger does them even easier. When I play it every 4-5 game i see i have done one, without even trying (gold helps the Jag more than ISU, running Food in ISU is more worth it)....

is isu still worth considering the longer grind?

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8 minutes ago, garryallen said:

is isu still worth considering the longer grind?

The grind is easymode, much easier than Borsig's grind (cough Shitter Emil cough). The hardest part of the grind is ISU's stock grind, but its tolerable when you use derp with HEAT when top tier and HE when bottom tier. DONT use 122mm on ISU.

Seriously, the Soviet TD line is overall one of the easiest lines to grind in the game, if not the easiest. Most tier 9s have torturing stock grinds, but Object 704 doesnt even have stock grind. The very good line just happens to end with also one of the trashiest tier 10s in the game.

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3 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

The grind is easymode, much easier than Borsig's grind (cough Shitter Emil cough). The hardest part of the grind is ISU's stock grind, but its tolerable when you use derp with HEAT when top tier and HE when bottom tier. DONT use 122mm on ISU.

Seriously, the Soviet TD line is overall one of the easiest lines to grind in the game, if not the easiest. Most tier 9s have torturing stock grinds, but Object 704 doesnt even have stock grind. The very good line just happens to end with also one of the trashiest tier 10s in the game.

ahhh, i am halfway through grinding the sturer emil. its a terrible platform with a great gun, getting that gun to work is hard though.

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1 hour ago, garryallen said:

is isu still worth considering the longer grind?

What grind? SU-152 is the best TD in tier by far, and the SU-100 is one of the best (depending on playstyle, Jackson, Achilles, Hellcat etc are still effective).

Use 122 on SU-100, and 152 on SU-152. They prepare you the best for ISU.

In fact, I had more fun with SU-152 than with ISU. It has much more workable armor, and 700 alpha a tier lower is actually more. Also, it has more hitpoints tier-for-tier.

SU-100 is hilarious, it sees tier 4 and 5 that can one-shot.

In fact, of those 3, ISU is comparably the weakest tier-for-tier. Not that it is weak, but there are simply a lot of good TDs at tier 8, while in tier 7 almost none, and tier 6 just a few.

Also, all TDs are gimped somehow (speed, view range, traverse, bloom, mostly lack turrets). But in lower tiers it matters much less, ppl are running bad crews, you see less light tanks, and they are kinda weak (that do not yolo), meds are mostly shit below tier 9, and heavies are as blind as you.

That is why Ferdi get such high win rates. It is an ersatz-heavy. Same HP, armor and speed worthy of a heavy tank (crappy heavy tank armor, but hey, they are mostly like this besides IS-3), no turret but big traverse, and big ass gun that can always trade well.

Only tank that is genuinely bad is SU-85 (ok, I played SU-85 B back when it had 390 view range and in vision meta, OP as fuck), but only when solo (blind as a bat, but very good gun for tier, and resistant to one-shoting by derps). Platoon that 20-30 games you have to grind it through. Use 122 mm derp till you unlock the top 85 mm (+HE/heat).

1st 85 mm is strictly worse than SU-85b top gun. I know that researching 122 mm derp may seem like a waste of exp, but you will grind the top 85 mm much faster, than using 76 mm longer, or the crappy 1st 85 mm (if you spam gold, at least spam one with alpha).

 

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1 hour ago, Felicius said:

Only tank that is genuinely bad is SU-85 (ok, I played SU-85 B back when it had 390 view range and in vision meta, OP as fuck), but only when solo (blind as a bat, but very good gun for tier, and resistant to one-shoting by derps). Platoon that 20-30 games you have to grind it through. Use 122 mm derp till you unlock the top 85 mm (+HE/heat).

1st 85 mm is strictly worse than SU-85b top gun. I know that researching 122 mm derp may seem like a waste of exp, but you will grind the top 85 mm much faster, than using 76 mm longer, or the crappy 1st 85 mm (if you spam gold, at least spam one with alpha).

 

tier 5s are bad. su85 is a meh tank, mostly due to the lack of hp.

imagine if it had 640 hp like a kv1... the trades would be so insane.

and the 85mm suits the tank better for me, being exposed while aiming the derp is hard, and aiming from 300-350mm where the 85mm shines is awkward for the derp.

I'm probably just gonna play it like a stug 4 with better armour, gun with a little less gun depression, or a stig 3 with a different gun and less depression.

i still can't believe how bad the stug 4 is..

Oh wait you were talking about the first 85mm... yeah the derp is better

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4 hours ago, garryallen said:

tier 5s are bad. su85 is a meh tank, mostly due to the lack of hp.

imagine if it had 640 hp like a kv1... the trades would be so insane.

and the 85mm suits the tank better for me, being exposed while aiming the derp is hard, and aiming from 300-350mm where the 85mm shines is awkward for the derp.

I'm probably just gonna play it like a stug 4 with better armour, gun with a little less gun depression, or a stig 3 with a different gun and less depression.

i still can't believe how bad the stug 4 is..

Oh wait you were talking about the first 85mm... yeah the derp is better

All tier 5 tds are low on hp. But T67 is one of the best tanks in tier, and OP (along with T-34 and O-I Exp). It is even more vulnerable. Lack of HP is something you can get around...if you are fast, turret, view range, camo...

I know, SU-85 makes it pretty hard to utilize your advantages (there are not many).

I sold my Stug 4 pretty soon. Not a keeper, Hetzer with 75 mm performs better (more armor) and has better MM (sees tier 3s much more often, and when top tier it clubs ppl - Stug 4 feels like tier 4.5 tank in a tier 5 battle. I would rather have the Stug III laser gun in a tier 7 one. OFC, hetz with 105 mm is even better, but even 75 mm wielding one is better than Stug 4.

T28 Concept is a keeper, though. It is one of the best pushers/blockers in tier if you have a platoon.

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9 hours ago, Felicius said:

All tier 5 tds are low on hp. But T67 is one of the best tanks in tier, and OP (along with T-34 and O-I Exp). It is even more vulnerable. Lack of HP is something you can get around...if you are fast, turret, view range, camo...

I know, SU-85 makes it pretty hard to utilize your advantages (there are not many).

I sold my Stug 4 pretty soon. Not a keeper, Hetzer with 75 mm performs better (more armor) and has better MM (sees tier 3s much more often, and when top tier it clubs ppl - Stug 4 feels like tier 4.5 tank in a tier 5 battle. I would rather have the Stug III laser gun in a tier 7 one. OFC, hetz with 105 mm is even better, but even 75 mm wielding one is better than Stug 4.

T28 Concept is a keeper, though. It is one of the best pushers/blockers in tier if you have a platoon.

Yeh the stug 4 is trash,however it is a crew trainer if i ever need one and am dumb enough to use/ i get good enough to lose my soul 3 marking it.

The t28 HTC is too slow for my liking, and i struggle playing it well, but the armor can be so troll. 4k damage blocked in a tier 9 battle top kek

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Yeah, the SU-85 was the worst tank in the grind.  I generally just followed the meds, where the M4s went, I followed and laid 50-100m behind them.  The 85 has pretty good alpha compared to tier 4 meds so you can discourage trading pretty effectively.  When I bought it the first time I did not understand anything about camo/vision, I gave up on TDs at the 2-3K battle mark and only really got back into the line after 9K battles.  

I think its been a good line so far, but I may stop at the ISU.  I cannot really see any big advantage the 704 has over the ISU if for no other reason than the MM

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13 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

Yeah, the SU-85 was the worst tank in the grind.  I generally just followed the meds, where the M4s went, I followed and laid 50-100m behind them.  The 85 has pretty good alpha compared to tier 4 meds so you can discourage trading pretty effectively.  When I bought it the first time I did not understand anything about camo/vision, I gave up on TDs at the 2-3K battle mark and only really got back into the line after 9K battles.  

I think its been a good line so far, but I may stop at the ISU.  I cannot really see any big advantage the 704 has over the ISU if for no other reason than the MM

6-7-8 are the only tiers that are worth it. 704 is way worse than before, and worse than Jagdtiger by far.

ISU is the last good tank in the line.

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Main advantage of 704 is.. arty rarely vaporize you in 1 shot.. and you can troll heavies by sidescraping with maxed repair skill. But otherwise, the ISU is glorious.

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3 hours ago, Hally said:

Main advantage of 704 is.. arty rarely vaporize you in 1 shot.. and you can troll heavies by sidescraping with maxed repair skill. But otherwise, the ISU is glorious.

Yes...but up-tiering the gun, and even worse traverse did not help. Arty has not vaporized me in one shot more than 2-3 times...side armor is good enough for side shot to be just splash if not right angle - happens rarely, and it reduces splash dmg considerably (waffles). Frontally, shots mostly hit the mantlet and never penetrate fully. You lose 400-700 hp mostly (ouch, but you live). I think only T92 obliterated me from one shot once, and once by 261 firing AP.

Also, power-creep made 704 "armor" rather obsolete, with 200+ mm you go through, and that is pretty much everybody. Magic Stalin spaced armor works well at distances very rare now (at such distances I would take the long 128 any day). Camo advantage over for example Jagdtiger is almost worthless now (considering it also have much lower view range), and it is way more team dependent. 

Jag is much more self reliant, because it is not blind, has more traverse, gun depression and hitpoints (dat buff) to act like assault gun/ersatz heavy, armor is stronger if you hide even just the LFP, mantlet is actually bigger in % (weakspots on superstructure are smaller and much harder to hit than 704 non-mantlet area). Also, Jag has the perfect reload (sub 10 sec) to 2 for 1 most heavies that have just a bit smaller alphas (E-75, WZ 111 1-4), let alone bigger ones (just E-100), ones with 390/400/440 you can simply trade shots and win.

Far away from a bad TD (still one of the best, and adding shitty ones like 2nd Brit line maybe even pushed it closer to the top), but meta was not kind to it...

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Man, WG ruined this thing.  The pubbys be like "if you cannot make 260 pen work U R scrub"  and I be like "all I ever see are tier 9-10 and 260 pen gun on shit platform is GG against Type 4"

Most games you might get one shot off and then get evaporated, from now on that shot will always be APCR.

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23 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

Man, WG ruined this thing.  The pubbys be like "if you cannot make 260 pen work U R scrub"  and I be like "all I ever see are tier 9-10 and 260 pen gun on shit platform is GG against Type 4"

Most games you might get one shot off and then get evaporated, from now on that shot will always be APCR.

WG wants players to use as much gold ammo as it's possible. That's all. 

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8 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

Man, WG ruined this thing.  The pubbys be like "if you cannot make 260 pen work U R scrub"  and I be like "all I ever see are tier 9-10 and 260 pen gun on shit platform is GG against Type 4"

Most games you might get one shot off and then get evaporated, from now on that shot will always be APCR.

I do hate the increased gold usage, but 260 pen is still respectable and indeed workable against anything not a T10 heavy, while the increased HP makes it less at the mercy of RNG and puts it beyond the range of being two shot by 490 alfa blunderbusses. It's a fair trade IMO, but will make it a fair bit more expensive to run.

OTOH I have to call bullshit on the 704 research cost changes. Previously the 704 was (1) cheaper to research and (2) came with the BL10 equipped. Now it's about 40K exp more expensive on top of the 60-something K you need for the top gun. All this means that the 704 basically costs as much exp as a Tier 10, and you need to grind most of that out on your ISU, which now needs gold.

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On 5/9/2017 at 7:56 AM, lavawing said:

I do hate the increased gold usage, but 260 pen is still respectable and indeed workable against anything not a T10 heavy, while the increased HP makes it less at the mercy of RNG and puts it beyond the range of being two shot by 490 alfa blunderbusses. It's a fair trade IMO, but will make it a fair bit more expensive to run.

OTOH I have to call bullshit on the 704 research cost changes. Previously the 704 was (1) cheaper to research and (2) came with the BL10 equipped. Now it's about 40K exp more expensive on top of the 60-something K you need for the top gun. All this means that the 704 basically costs as much exp as a Tier 10, and you need to grind most of that out on your ISU, which now needs gold.

260 pen is enough for anything you face apart from type 5s and mauses. Also playing the isu like a pure td is the worst way to play it. It has very good mobility for the non paper armour it gets and stupid strong gun. Just play it like a flanker and nuke people from medium/close range. 

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On 9/5/2017 at 7:56 AM, lavawing said:

I do hate the increased gold usage, but 260 pen is still respectable and indeed workable against anything not a T10 heavy, while the increased HP makes it less at the mercy of RNG and puts it beyond the range of being two shot by 490 alfa blunderbusses. It's a fair trade IMO, but will make it a fair bit more expensive to run.

OTOH I have to call bullshit on the 704 research cost changes. Previously the 704 was (1) cheaper to research and (2) came with the BL10 equipped. Now it's about 40K exp more expensive on top of the 60-something K you need for the top gun. All this means that the 704 basically costs as much exp as a Tier 10, and you need to grind most of that out on your ISU, which now needs gold.

 

On 11/5/2017 at 2:00 PM, nabucodonsor said:

260 pen is enough for anything you face apart from type 5s and mauses. Also playing the isu like a pure td is the worst way to play it. It has very good mobility for the non paper armour it gets and stupid strong gun. Just play it like a flanker and nuke people from medium/close range. 

Well, ISU is now way more on the mercy or RNG with this pen values. You roll 230 and bounce an IS-3:gachi:.

Otherwise, I think you missed the point (or pain of) playing ISU; derpastic gun makes you wish every shell that even remotely touches the enemy pens, and simply aim for center mass. 

Ferdi was becoming better anyway thanks to meta changes, but this kills any reason to play it now. A bad thing, because BL-10 was one of the rare things to balance the Defender and overbuffed 8-10 heavies. 

With more lights (unlikely to hit at all) and overbuffed heavies (unlikely to penn), and being blind and turning like a beached whale, it makes even more sense to simply downgrade to SU-152, and balance things with 250 HEAT :bigdoge:.

As a history aficionado, i will miss the "zveroboy".

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1 hour ago, Felicius said:

 

Well, ISU is now way more on the mercy or RNG with this pen values. You roll 230 and bounce an IS-3:gachi:.

Otherwise, I think you missed the point (or pain of) playing ISU; derpastic gun makes you wish every shell that even remotely touches the enemy pens, and simply aim for center mass. 

Ferdi was becoming better anyway thanks to meta changes, but this kills any reason to play it now. A bad thing, because BL-10 was one of the rare things to balance the Defender and overbuffed 8-10 heavies. 

With more lights (unlikely to hit at all) and overbuffed heavies (unlikely to penn), and being blind and turning like a beached whale, it makes even more sense to simply downgrade to SU-152, and balance things with 250 HEAT :bigdoge:.

As a history aficionado, i will miss the "zveroboy".

Meh play the Chinese TDs if you like the BL-10. There you get the same thing, but less derpy, on a better platform, with 395 HEAT pen. 395.

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1 hour ago, lavawing said:

Meh play the Chinese TDs if you like the BL-10. There you get the same thing, but less derpy, on a better platform, with 395 HEAT pen. 395.

I have not played a game in more than 6 months, and was not so pleasantly surprised when i came back this weekend. 

The issue with chinese is that i have only 2 chinese crews, and russians are plenty...especially since i have a feeling that the number of fun tanks in russian three is lower than 2 years ago (which was basically at least one medium/heavy in tiers 5/6/7/8, both heavies in tier 8, and 9, both meds in tier 9,...tier X hovercrafts...).

I will have to adapt, but I will probably simply stay out of higher tiers altogether. meta seems slower to change in mid-tiers, especially after the bento boxes are put back in place.

 

And anyway, Chinese TDs got 750 alpha boomstick 2 tiers higher than CCCP ones. 9 instead of 7.

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1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

@Felicius you have to play the ISU at medium to close range and as a flanker 750 alpha tank. It does not always work but when it does it is hilarius.

Well, close range can be tricky, due to gun arc limitations/bloom when traversing/aim time.

After the nerf, the primary role it had (and a role more important now than before) - the counter to the super-heavies, is now out of the question. Hell, you can take a RHM (with either gun), and get a turret, acc, aim time and penetration, or in case of 15 cm, the same alpha, too. 

even the dumbest super-heavies will slap you by the time you get out of cover (hard cover, since bush camping with this shit pen is out of a question. and how many bushes are left?), aim their weakspots, and retreat. 

Best pen was the thing that kept it alive, and one of the rare tanks I was happy to engage tier X heavies. There were many games where my support won the tier X match, with me winning Halonen medal, even killing 3 tier X super heavies, along with removing massive chunks from other tanks.

APCR as prem also means that it is now at just 242 mm pen at long range fire (same as AP), a penetration not sufficient for even some same tier tanks. hell, as close as 200 m it drops to 280 mm, and with that tier 9&10 heavies just laugh their faces off.

It lost the "low drop APCR" thing it had previously. Now it is just another gold shell efficient at medium range at most, so I would pick the 15 cm RHM heat over it any time.

And RHM can pop out and fire in 2-3 seconds, even with some aiming. Long range, HEAT is better anyway with proliferation of Mouse Family,  and bento boxes in higher tiers.

Ferdi is now literally better at anything ISU could do (like, not evaporate from a single arty/derp hit as RHM), along with being able to go aggro and meet heavies in city. it is not even slower, and gun arc makes you so much more efficient.

ISU is killed by meta, powercreep,view range nerfs, and this is the final nail in the coffin. Just so WG could sell more OP heavies - now you need other heavy to counter them efficiently anyway. 

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Perhaps I'm misguided, but I ground the ISU recently and didn't find it painful at all.  Managed a 62% WR solopubbing, and based on the available evidence, I'm not that good overall.  I haven't looked that numbers, but the shell velocity on the AP round seems pretty decent, and with a decent crew (e.g. clutch braking is pretty essential), it still works as a late game ambush predator.   Support early, hunt late - following that model worked for me.  And the pen, while not blazing, is still pretty good - i didn't have to fire a lot of APCR at all.  True it isn't stand-in for heavies like the Ferdi, and the accuracy can be...painful at times.  But 750 alpha at tier 8 makes it feel like an autoloader - as the game progresses, and hp pools start to diminish, the count of targets you can one shot only goes up.  And you still have pretty good camo and mobility to exploit.

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