Reluctor

M46 Patton

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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e3c0trlwrd2d38y/AABQKtHefBkXI-mf3_UD_GoGa?dl=0

So. Finally got my Patton. I seem to be doing ok with it but would love feedback. My only high tier medium so I'm still learning quite a bit. I averaged 3.1k WN8 so far today and the majority of that was the Patton I believe so these should be semi decent quality games.

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I swear I wont bite. Not asking for you to watch all the replays or anything crazy. I just played a few games in a row on the tank and decided to upload them all as good or bad as they may be. Any feedback at all would be great, be it to be more or less aggressive on certain maps or something. I don't know. Pls Halp

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Hey there, I noticed no one has been paying attention to this thread so I thought I'd give my advice.

First Game: Ensk

  • Right at the beginning for the first minute or two, you seemed really unsure of what to do. Ensk is a pretty annoying map, but there's a couple places you can really abuse from that spawn. Right at D4, there's a window where you can spot enemies moving towards the western side of the map. With so few enemy heavies on their team, the position you took in the middle was fine. If there are more top tier heavies on the other team, I usually like to get early spots from either D4 or the 6 line railway before flexing to whichever side needs me/is less fucked.
  • Around the 13:00 mark you should have went back to base. The majority of your team was pushing west, and they really didn't need your help, while the majority of the enemy team was pushing your base. If you had gotten there before the rest of your team, you could easily have gotten another 800 damage or so, and if for some reason your team died pushing the Waffle, you'd be fast enough to farm whatever health he has left. Pretty well played game aside from that.

Second game: Pilsen

  • Considering their team comp, field was the better choice to go at the start (usually I'd recommend getting early shots at G3, then flanking and supporting your team on that side). Make sure you don't waste too much time trying to hit sketchy shots, like those on the T49. I know you're still getting used to the tank, but you really need to lead those long range shots better, you missed out on at least 800 damage from missing shots.
  • Don't autoaim moving targets, unless they're right up next to you or you need to shoot while driving away. Even if you have the side of a slow moving tank like a Tiger, it's better to aim your shot since you can go for tracks, ammo rack, engine, etc.

Third game: Swamp

  • Going north is fine, but you probably could have done much better shifting to C8 to get early spots and early damage on anyone on their team going north. There is a very convenient bush you can abuse to spot and damage crossing enemies without being seen. If you do get spotted from there, it's easy to fall back or help your team push north.
  • Right at around 13:30, you drive out into the open while still spotted. You were extremely lucky not to be punished by their E5, JP2, or unspotted JT. It would have been better to get underneath the E5's gun and put shots into his lower plate. If he were to push you, you would have had plenty of support from the Cent 7/1, T54, TVP, and T49. As such, your choice there got your Centurion killed, since there wasn't really any need to chase after their Leo PTA.
  • You should have went after the E5 and the M60 from a different angle. From the way you went, you easily could have been artilleried  or killed by their base campers. Also, don't bother shooting at the E5's hatch. He was going to come after you failry hard anyway, so it would have been better to either save your shot, put it into the M60, or just gtfo.

Fourth game: Steppes

  • Where you went at the beginning is fine, but you decided to take shots on the Bulldog. I really don't think that was worth it, since the most harm he could do from that position is spot your base campers (who are unlikely to be of much influence in your game). A better approach is to go to the hill in front of you to spot enemy tanks moving across and maybe get a shot or two off.
  • Make sure you're not sitting still fro too long, especially on that side. Arty loves to aim in the location you're at, so keep that in mind.
  • At 12:20ish make sure you poke over at an angle so you don't get shot like that again. Overall, you just took too much damage in the early game and some pretty bad trades with the WZ. Keep in mind it's okay to push into those tanks like that, but don't push them too hard. Once you get under their guns, let them push over the hill since you have a large portion of your team behind you. You saw how quickly they managed to get the Bulldog out, let them keep doing that work for you.

Fifth game: Himmelsdorf

  • You poked a little too far on the hill at the beginning. It almost got you shot by the Ferdi, especially with that T54E1 blocking you from behind. I don't think you should have poked the E75, but since you did anyway, you should have aimed it better. I know its a snapshot, but you're playing at 80-90 FPS, you can make those shots happen.
  • Once the E75 pushed up to the rubble, it would have been better to support your team's push around the other side of the castle. Looking at the map, only their JP2 and maybe artillery were in a position to put shots into you from below, so there was no need to fight the E75 and T32 alone frontally. Pretty good luck those two heavies had absolutely no idea how to aim, however.
  • 12:05 Don't miss easy shots.
  • 11:43 Be patient when you side scrape. If you let him move onto you, then his bloom will be larger while yours will be fully aimed. You out-DPM him anyway, but it's extra damage you might not have taken there.
  • 10:23 Again with the autoaim, try not to rely on it too much.
  • 9:50 Don't hesitate. You were deciding whether to go for cap or to kill him. You probably would have died if you went to cap; if you managed to get your tracking shot on him then you might have had a chance. GG anyway.

Sixth Game: Fisherman's Bay

  • 14:00 Be careful pushing that far up, people like to camp base in WoT. I generally go to a particular bush in E6/7 that gives me early spots for myself and my team on heavies and TD's going for city.
  • You're spending too much time in the middle when the opportunities to deal damage are on the flanks. I would have gone 1/2 line to dig out their tanks there, then gone back to help city through mid. You went all the way to their cap without clearing the other side first, and you got shot because of it. The position you forced yourself into is REALLY awkward if they decide to push you.
  • Make sure you're aiming well. It's bizarre, you're hitting some more challenging shots but missing the easy ones.

Seventh: Overlord

  • Pretty aggressive position at the beginning, I personally prefer a bush on the ridge at G6/7 (basically, a mirror of what their 121 did). From there, you can get early spots on mediums cresting the ridge and free shots on light tanks that like to surf the hill where you are at.
  • The middle isn't safe to stay in for more than a few seconds, as you found out. Just keep it in mind. You should have disengaged and helped your mediums push the east flank, that way your team will gain some map control to work their heavies down from. Your base campers would have had shots on those heavies eventually anyway, so there isn't much reason to spot for them anyway.

Eighth: Fiery Salient

  • It's way better to go F5/6 at the start of the game. You can get spots and free shots on tanks crossing the tracks a couple on those moving towards the middle. After you get those early spots, just stay down for a bit so you don't get artied, and then you have free shots onto people poking you and side shots onto tanks on the hill. The position you were in only really counters light tanks trying to go to The Bush, which doesn't really matter as none of your team went 1/2 line aside from you.
  • Aim your shots better. Usually aiming isn't one of the more important skills (as positioning>everything else) but when you're missing 800+ damage or so a game because of it, it adds up. Granted, some of them were RNG, but enough of them are your fault that I have to bring it up.
  • Good awareness of when you need to back off the ridge, however.
  • 11:25 Don't waste shots like that. If you're going to fire, at least aim for the weakspot.
  • 8:39 Don't autoaim that.
  • 8:19ish Use the minimap to your advantage. There is another ridge you can crest behind you, and if you look at the map, you'll see it would be outside the max view range circle, which means the Grille wouldn't be able to spot you unless the arty lights you (though with his 350m view range he might not even be able to). Instead, you keep popping up within his view range, which costs you some extra damage you could have dealt.
  • 7:40ish Great awareness of knowing when you need to gtfo. Good lights through the railway, although they're weren't of much use since you're arty died. If you light targets, make sure people are in position to shoot at them.
  • You go back to the position you abandoned for some reason? A much better play would be to go all the way to the west flank (at least the second ridge from the railway) and spot them from there/get side shots.
  • 5:50 You really should not have stopped to take another shot, and you got extremely lucky he didn't hit you with his second shot. Don't want to sound rude, but that was very lucky you survived at all.

Ninth: Winter Himmelsdorf

  • Be wary of going that side of the castle at the start. you can get early spots there, but they can spot you back and hit you. You also isolate yourself, which means if they push you, you have no help.
  • 13:45 After taking two hits like that you really should just bug out. There's no reason to try to fight against that, and you quickly get killed because of that.

Tenth: Sacred Valley

  • 14:06 There wasn't really any reason to repair your track there, you were safe behind the rock from the Cent and there was only 1 arty (who just hit you).
  • Don't poke on the VK, think about it as risk vs reward. How many times are you going to reliably pen that from the front? Just wait for your team to hit him from the side, then when he turns you can put your DPM to use.
  • You should have went back to base after killing the Ferdi. Remember, your own base is more important than trying to farm their top tier heavies (you can always farm them after you defend base).

Eleventh: Fiery Salient

  • Right at the start of the game you missed out on free damage because you were fucking around, I have no idea what you were doing. There was the RU in front of you and a M41 90 to your left you could have easily hit if you were paying more attention.
  • 13:40 For future reference, if you see a hull down Centurion, aim for either just outside the mantlet to the left or right(~160mm) or the center of the mantlet to the left or right of the gun(~152mm).
  • You spend a lot of time staying still/staying in the same area. With 3 artillery on Fiery Salient you cannot afford to do that. Also, be aware that where you are (around 13:20ish) at F3, you can easily be hit by their TD's on the 1/2 line.
  • Even though you hit your shot at the end, I'm still going to say don't autoaim.

Twelfth: Mountain Pass

  • Generally, playing the middle on Mountain Pass is super risky. It's much less risky and just as rewarding to position at J2/3 and get free shots onto heavies moving in and any tanks that have made it up to H3/4.
  • 10:50 Smart of you to back off there, since your team should have that under control. However, I don't like that at 9:50 you go for the AMX 50 100. There were 2 TD's behind you that could easily have taken care of him for you, while to the north there were 3 lower tier heavies you could easily farm and prevent from reaching your base.
  • 9:25 Don't really know why you went that way, if you went back the way you came you'd have easily gotten more damage on those heavies (there are 3 of them tot eh north and only 1 tank to your east).
  • Around 8:00ish going after their heavy tanks through the middle would have been a much better play, the arty isn't going to go anywhere and there is more HP to take from their surviving heavy tanks.

 

So as a general summary, make sure you're making full use of your view range. Early spots/damage can influence a game more than you might expect. Make sure you're hitting more of your shots as well. A well placed shot on a tank earlier in the battle might help you even the odds on him later on in the game. Also, try not to use autoaim so much. It's a great tool in the right situation, but a lot of the time its necessary and adds more risk than necessary to hit a shot. The last few things I want to point out is to remember that the Patton is a support tank. You don't have to be the center of the push, and you definitely don't have to create your own pushes. Learn when to be more passive and more aggressive. Your overall positioning is fine, though there are a couple of spots that are much better and more effective than the ones you were going to before.

Hope my input helps, if anyone wants to correct me or voice their own opinion on some of the things I said, feel free!

My stats in the Patton, not super amazing but not shit either.

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13 hours ago, SuperSapien said:

Make sure you're aiming well. It's bizarre, you're hitting some more challenging shots but missing the easy ones.

I honestly could not stop laughing at this. Its so sad, but so true. I cannot seem to aim very well unless i'm at least x8 zoomed in, even in close range which is why I resort to auto aim so much. I'll freely admit it is an abominable habit that is made worse by the fact that I recently unlocked my E5 and that thing snaps so well. Any advice on practicing aiming shots? Maybe I should lower my DPI while in game.

I am at work currently but when I get home I will match up your comments to the actual replays and see what is going on. I very much appreciate your analysis and you are my new favorite person!

Reluctor
M--M Clan Member
WOT Shitter

Edit: the fith game at the end was the most embarrassing thing I've had happen to me in a long time. I was thinking to myself that I might get to carry a game and it be epic! Then A wild JPanther appeared lol. I definitely froze. I just didn't think I had the damage to kill him and get to cap so I struggled mentally with how do i get past him and live. It would have helped if I hadn't faffed about with the Tortoise for so long. 
Also the easy shot I missed on the Comet, I believe I went to take the shot, saw the gun barrel from a dead tank in the way, and pulled the shot screwing it. I need to be more patient. Slow is smooth smooth is fast and all that jazz.

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I honestly could not stop laughing at this. Its so sad, but so true. I cannot seem to aim very well unless i'm at least x8 zoomed in, even in close range which is why I resort to auto aim so much. I'll freely admit it is an abominable habit that is made worse by the fact that I recently unlocked my E5 and that thing snaps so well. Any advice on practicing aiming shots? Maybe I should lower my DPI while in game.

Tbh I feel like i was a little too harsh on your aiming, for the most part it was pretty good aside from those couple of shots. In the long run, where you position is far more important than how good of a hot you are. I feel like I was just harsher on it because I've been three marking tanks and I've been focused on dealing as much damage as possible, so don't take it too harshly. That being said, you did say you just got the tank so I'm sure you're still getting accustomed to it. Since you mentioned not being able to aim well until you're zoomed 8x in, I would suggest tweaking the aim sensitivity in sniper mode to see if that helps. As for "practicing" your aim, just play the game more, a good amount of the skill in this game comes from experience.

I'm glad you got something out of my review though, I was happy to help!

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Hey Reluctor,

Former MM fella here...i feel you on the M46..its an interesting beast.

I'm not good enough at it to offer any real feedback(avg 1800 dpg), as i'm still trying to learn this tank and just unlocked top engine.

One thing of note that i will add though, in terms of the accuracy of that gun. The APCR round on that tanks has a very high muzzle velocity that is quite noticeable vs. the regular AP. While I dont spam APCR cause id be broke but esp when you are trying to snipe at people who are more than 300m away...a little APCR goes a long way. The extra velocity makes hitting and penning at distance significantly easier.

As well for some reason the gun can be a bit "derpy" at times with the odd flyer even when fully aimed.

I'm still learning this tank and seem to either go big or go home with it, that said the DPM on this tank is fantastic (the alpha is strong too for T9 med)..personally just need to not give away too much health early so i have some to spend near the end.

Great feedback from Sapien as well.

Good luck mate!

 

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So since I wrote the OP I have figured out the tank a bit I feel. I have 113 games in it with 58% win rate and over 2.1k dpg with this becoming my favorite tank in the game.

What I've found;
The APCR is amazing!
The turret isn't as bouncy as it's tier 8 counterpart so you have to play a little less aggressive.
When in doubt, snap that shot. .4 accuracy my fat ass. 
It takes very little effort to outplay same tier mediums thanks to the raw alpha and DPM of the machine.
AFE is your friend. Fuel tanks get hit ALOT. A lot. Like a lot.

 

Thanks for all of your help with the replay and tank advice :)

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Personally I play the M46 more aggressively than I played the Pershing. It's faster, more agile, and not really suited to sitting back and aiming-you can quickly pop in and out whereas the M26 is a bit clumsier and not quite as good at combat relocation. The higher damage also means that no one really wants to get hit by you whereas most high tier tanks don't care about 240 alpha.

Granted it's definitely not as good at tanking a position, you usually need to make quick passes at people.

I haven't had problems with the fuel tanks, guessing you're getting unlucky there.

 

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By passive I mean that I don't like to be in front of people. The Pershing I could face hug same tier mediums and a lot of the time they couldn't do anything to me. I could be more frontally aggressive. In the 46 Patton I like to play more from the side and rear because it doesn't eat shots as well. That and it tends to force people out of their spots when 400 alpha starts pegging you in the booty allowing my team to have more opportunities. 

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