leggasiini

Kranvagn - tier 10 Swedish HT

148 posts in this topic

I was wrong. It’s shit.

Edited by sohojacques
I was wrong. It’s shit.

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Good luck playing this tank with 300HEAT against all the spam of Type5, Maus and E100. I'm actually putting another clip of HEAT in the tank now.. Two games in a row where i don't have the opportunity to shoot APCR.. 

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I dont know do i even want to play Kran anymore. The Type 5 especially literally eats it for breakfast, since not only its borderline immune to Kran it also can blast straight to its turret for like 400 - 500. 

Maus is terrifying against it aswell, but atleast it doesnt have derp to crush it.

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These are the kind of stats you would find on a situational tank :

 

Don't mind the winrate but look at avg dmg. I have no game at 3 or 4k.. I either do little or get in enoughs hulldown situation and can eat people alive. 

 

4ADArAU.png

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Yeh I really don't like it and really struggle to get consistency from it. It's either a hull down god where people drive at you and there is no arty.

Or it's a really bad 50b that isn't able to pen anything. My more recent tier 10s getting over 3k DPG has not been that hard, but in this I can barely keep it at 2.6k and the win rate is pretty meh as well. 

The penetration is frustrating, standard round feels about as reliable as old E100 AP without the overmatch and the HEAT round is just trash, struggled to even pen the angled straight at me shoulders of the Type 5 yesterday. I recognise the obvious strengths of the tank but I just don't find it fun, too situational, I wish it had a single shot gun option and then I'd think I would like it, but with tier 10 arty and splurge of over buffed Maus about and cancerous type 5 (600 to your turret no problem) it just feels weak. 

Seriously thinking of ditching it and trying the TDs with my 5 skill crew.  I thought the Emil 2's bad points were largely corrected in the Kranvagn but it seems not enough to compensate for the step up in MM. 

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I still think that apparent original design (less armor, better mobility, 15cm single shot gun with high alpha and ok pen but poor at everything else) would have been significantly better. It would have been 1) more balanced 2) more fun to play 3) more unique. I dont know why didnt they take that approach.

Even better would have been option to use either improved 105mm or rebalanced current 12cm single shot good acc/gun handling/pen but sub-par DPM to be alternate gun choice for the tank. I think another autoloader is unnecessary, especially yet another 400 x 4 heavy.

If kranvagn had original 175mm turret armor it would have been still tough, but only when hulldown (about as tough as EMIL I turret).

So, basically:

- nerf turret armor to 175

- nerf side armor, buff LFP a bit

- buff acceleration to pre-nerf levels, maybe nerf top speed or agility if necessary

- give it 15cm single shot with better AP pen than E100 but worse DPM due to not having rammer

- make 120mm single shot; buff pen, accuracy, gun handling and shell velocity. Dont give it very high DPM though.

 

EMIL I should get slightly better mobility and notably nerfed armor. Make gun single shot but improve gun handling, accuracy and penetration a bit. Make it bit like small Löwe with -2 better depression and better mobility but poor hull armor and overall worse but still usable turret. Do similar changes for EMIL II as with Kranvagn expect to fit on tier 9 and perhaps dont give it 15cm to keep Kranvagn more attractive.

So with these changes, swedish heavies are...

- more fun to play with and against

- more unique

- more balanced

- more historical (sort of, they dont have autoloaders but armor would work very well if made historical)

- tier 10 isnt just tier 9 with all around bit improved stats so its more attractive staple to grind

- not another autoloader

Look the list of positives, would be so cool if they did this. Sadly there is likely no way to revert this, they should have done this on supertest before they released the branch.

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I like how this thread went from "this will outclass everything" to "not sure i want to play it anymore"

Currently it's a slow, clunky POS, IMHO. I have about 35 games in mine, and less than 40% WR. I just lose whenever I touch this thing, and can't figure out a decent play style for it. When i play it like a complete pussy, I can't hit anything because the gun handling is bad. When i play more aggressive and get closer, I get in trouble without back up between reloads and can't escape because it's slow. Heavies give me a lot of problems because the HEAT round is bad. I really don't like anything about it. I'm open to advice, if anyone has any. Please tell me how to play this thing, link me to some replays or something. My plan now is to have a platoon carry me to a less embarrassing WR, then shelf it and use my female crew on the TDs, which i have yet to try. I was told they are situational, but so is this. Wonder which one is more so. At least the 103 has the insane DPM. With the Krapvagn you need all the stars to align as others have said - map with a hill, no pushing, no arty, soft tanks sitting still in the open, etc. 

In a year and a half WG will probably do something about it and make it less awful, but as of now this thing got powercreeped at release. 

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It was indeed fucking retarded OP on phase 1 but they nerfed it pretty hard after that.

Also i dont think WG is planning to buff it ever, its performing statistically fine. Its just unfun to play (like all top tier Swe heavies).

Tbh Swedish tree was kinda failure. Both of lines has tanks that are both unfun to play and unfun to play against. There are few expections, but thats how it is.

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42 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

It was indeed fucking retarded OP on phase 1 but they nerfed it pretty hard after that.

Also i dont think WG is planning to buff it ever, its performing statistically fine. Its just unfun to play (like all top tier Swe heavies).

Tbh Swedish tree was kinda failure. Both of lines has tanks that are both unfun to play and unfun to play against. There are few expections, but thats how it is.

Im now at tier 8, and while the low tiers are all trash / not fun, (especially the TDs are atrocious) the UDES is reasonable:

  • its awefull for winning
  • its mega super ultra situational
  • its not good

Its still kinda fun, like how chi-ri was fun when released, not good, but difference / unique and thus not that bad of a grind

The Emil I is also quite fun, its only flaw is the default autoloader crap, long reload, which means missing a killshot is frustrating and low dpm

Emil II was amazeballs on test server, after it got nerfed so unless they also nerfed it between last round of testing and live version, it should be good / fun, and the same for Strv 103, i played it a lot on test server (and not the t10) but it worked quite well

all in all Swe TDs suffer from bad low tiers, while the heavys are a bit bland

ps: and agree, single shot 140mm would have been far better, 650 alpha dmg is quite a good value to balance around

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1 minute ago, GehakteMolen said:

Emil II was amazeballs on test server, after it got nerfed so unless they also nerfed it between last round of testing and live version, it should be good / fun, and the same for Strv 103, i played it a lot on test server (and not the t10) but it worked quite well

I and pretty many others hated it. That and Kranvagn generally were lot stronger on test server because retards let you just hulldown and unleash your magazine against them. You can sit in ridge and everyone will come at you.

I hated EMIL 2, long intra + long magazine reload + awful gun handling + sluggish mobility made it pretty frustating to play.

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22 hours ago, leggasiini said:

It was indeed fucking retarded OP on phase 1 but they nerfed it pretty hard after that.

Also i dont think WG is planning to buff it ever, its performing statistically fine. Its just unfun to play (like all top tier Swe heavies).

Tbh Swedish tree was kinda failure. Both of lines has tanks that are both unfun to play and unfun to play against. There are few expections, but thats how it is.

So quick update: I solo'd the Krapvagn today a bunch of times, partially bc of the crew bonus and partially bc I'm stubborn and like a challenge. I remembered how I played the Emails (with which i did well, esp Email 1) and in the end while my WR was okay, i did get some great games in. I can do around 3.4k on average when i try, with around 2.2 being the low end and 5k being the high end. For some reason i do better with this as a lone wolf without a platoon, which may have to do with what my friends play and me not feeling like I have to be next to them. 

Basically I don't necessarily follow heavies. It plays like a fake medium IMO. Go where there are hills on the map, and soft stuff. It seems to excel at wrecking meds more than anything else. Sitting back helps. In the end I don't think it's complete shit. If it had just a TINY bit more pen on both rounds I'd be quite happy with it. I can live with the bad mobility, bad gun handling and slow interclip time. In fact once I get in the Kran-zone it's almost relaxing - reminds me of the sLowe in a way. Just take it easy, don't rush, be aware and only push when you have a lot of back up. This thing doesn't force breakthroughs, but holds down a spot well if you picked it right. 

I can see them not buffing it, but I can also see a small pen increase. Because 300 HEAT at Tier X is just bad. Same with the normal APCR round, which is like 225 at range. That's marginally better than the APCR on my 59 and FCM for fucks sake, which is 25% smaller caliber and 2 tiers lower. Just doesn't make sense to me, especially since the Swedish TDs get good pen, so it isn't like Swedes have shit pen as a theme. In real life it seems unlikely there would be such a disparity between guns of the same caliber for any given nation, and correct me if I'm wrong but in WOT it's that way too - most similar guns from each country feel roughly the same with a few exceptions. 

Do WG devs ever read these forums? They should. Give us like ~20 more mm of pen!

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I'm on the tier 8, almost finished with it.  I've enjoyed it quite a lot except for the 20mm side armor - thats just wretched and arty feels like a combination of pre-nerf alpha with splash and stun.

217 pen should be enough, but I don't trust the gun and tend to load gold a lot in any uncertain situation.  With almost automatic tier X MM, I have sent a LOT of 0 damage clips downrange.  ugh.  Still, it wins pretty well and its able to carry so I'm liking it.  The emil II looks like a major upgrade, just not getting splash penned will be great.

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9 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

I'm on the tier 8, almost finished with it.  I've enjoyed it quite a lot except for the 20mm side armor - thats just wretched and arty feels like a combination of pre-nerf alpha with splash and stun.

217 pen should be enough, but I don't trust the gun and tend to load gold a lot in any uncertain situation.  With almost automatic tier X MM, I have sent a LOT of 0 damage clips downrange.  ugh.  Still, it wins pretty well and its able to carry so I'm liking it.  The emil II looks like a major upgrade, just not getting splash penned will be great.

Kranvagn is the second On Track for June (starts 16th I think) in case you (or anyone else) missed it- might want to wait a couple weeks to buy the T9

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14 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

I'm on the tier 8, almost finished with it.  I've enjoyed it quite a lot except for the 20mm side armor - thats just wretched and arty feels like a combination of pre-nerf alpha with splash and stun.

217 pen should be enough, but I don't trust the gun and tend to load gold a lot in any uncertain situation.  With almost automatic tier X MM, I have sent a LOT of 0 damage clips downrange.  ugh.  Still, it wins pretty well and its able to carry so I'm liking it.  The emil II looks like a major upgrade, just not getting splash penned will be great.

The T8 is the only decent tank in the line really, the T9 and T10 are trash.

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I understand why the Tier X is bad, but the tier 9 does not look bad on paper - especially with the brutal MM tier 8s are getting right now.  I hate the though of stopping at tier 8, but is the Emil II really that bad?

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3 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

I understand why the Tier X is bad, but the tier 9 does not look bad on paper - especially with the brutal MM tier 8s are getting right now.  I hate the though of stopping at tier 8, but is the Emil II really that bad?

Kranvagn is bad cause of awful premium round, even more so with the current meta, awful gun handling and long time between shots. The gun is so frickin troll it's not even funny and 300 HEAT doesn't pen anything really.

And the Emil II does all of those even worse.

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I don't get the hate. 

It's got workable mobility, acceptable view range, amazing depression and a nearly impenetrable turret. With a good crew and optics there's games you can win for your team without even having to fire your gun.

So it should have drawbacks and it should be situational. I don't think that makes it bad. Not particularly enjoyable maybe, but far from terrible imo.

 

 

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On 2/25/2017 at 8:03 AM, DHP said:

These are the kind of stats you would find on a situational tank :

 

Don't mind the winrate but look at avg dmg. I have no game at 3 or 4k.. I either do little or get in enoughs hulldown situation and can eat people alive. 

 

4ADArAU.png

I think this tank is getting harder to play now - when it first came out people would actually trade with you when hull down - or at least try. Now everyone moves on to another target and doesn't waste a single shot because they know about the turret. 

 

On 6/2/2017 at 6:56 AM, Archaic_One said:

I understand why the Tier X is bad, but the tier 9 does not look bad on paper - especially with the brutal MM tier 8s are getting right now.  I hate the though of stopping at tier 8, but is the Emil II really that bad?

The T8 is very strong for the tier, and worth keeping IMO. The T9 is marginally better but the increased level of competition makes it a bit more average compared to the T8, when top tier. The T10 is the same thing again - slightly better than T9, but guaranteed to see the significantly tougher T10s in every battle, often nothing but T10s. 

So yeah it still needs something, my vote is a better gun. 

On 6/22/2017 at 2:50 PM, Sapros said:

I don't get the hate. 

It's got workable mobility, acceptable view range, amazing depression and a nearly impenetrable turret. With a good crew and optics there's games you can win for your team without even having to fire your gun.

So it should have drawbacks and it should be situational. I don't think that makes it bad. Not particularly enjoyable maybe, but far from terrible imo.

 

 

It is in WG's best interest to make each tank enjoyable to play, and minimize the number of clunky turds. They can easily emphasize some aspect of any given machine to give it a unique flavor and a real edge. This one is "good for hull down" like many other tanks, but as an auto-loader it is unique. I get the intent. 


When you say you can win and never fire a shot - that right there is the problem for me. This wasn't as pronounced when it first came out, but people these days know to simply avoid you when you are in a proper spot. On the other hand this tank really doesn't do well in forcing the situation. It's not fast enough to change positions, or even get to certain ones in the first place. meanwhile the silhouette is large and the rest of the armor is bad and you will get hit when moving, sometimes for 800 or over a 1000. All this forces it to stay back in most cases. This forces you to wrangle with a fairly derpy gun that seems to miss everything. When you do hit it is either gold, gold, gold or bounce, bounce, bounce. his is why I try to mostly go after mediums with it. 

 

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Its so close to being a really good tank, just a tiny bit of gun handling or pen would work wonders.  The bad handling plus shitty pen makes every clip kind of an RNG lottery.  Honestly, just buffing the bloom between shots would help a lot.

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So finally managed to 3rd mark it, after 200 games and like 6mil credits later:

kflPAhU.jpg

You cannot carry with this tank at all, my armor-use effiency is lower than i have with FV215b, E5, IS7. Whats the point of having godtier turret if nobody shoots at it or you just get shot with HE. 

KbmzE6w.jpg

My crewsetup. It didnt really burn even before the FF skill.

KG6GNYC.jpg

Loadout and the dank clown camo, which makes it all worth it. Vert. Stab, Vents with directive and GLD. The derpiness of the gun is the achilles heel, so did all i could to improve it.

 

TL;DR: Occasionally dominating hill fighter, but the generally awkward mobility and sub-par gun makes the tank average at best. Standard SLOW acpr makes no fucking sense and the 300mm HEAT is the best you can do.....

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