RollerCoaster47

Dunkerque

74 posts in this topic

I've been revisiting the Drunkerque (with a different much more mobile playstyle*) and have been really enjoying the ship.

The new camo looks fantastic. If Darth Vader were French he'd look like that!

If you have a Drunkerque you can do the mission set to get the camo in a single night in co-op mode.

 

*It's not a battleship and I don't like calling it a battlecruiser because that sounds too much like battleship. I call it and the Shinyhorse " Supercruisers" to remind myself to hunt cruisers and avoid battleships until the end game.

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14 hours ago, Manic_Wombat said:

*It's not a battleship and I don't like calling it a battlecruiser because that sounds too much like battleship. I call it and the Shinyhorse " Supercruisers" to remind myself to hunt cruisers and avoid battleships until the end game.

The Dunk is a huge late game bully, especially if you've spent your HP wisely. :)

 

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Is it worth 17 bucks?  That price is very tempting.

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15 hours ago, Devo said:

Is it worth 17 bucks?  That price is very tempting.

I bought it on sale for $17 and I don't regret it. Just keep in mind it's a pretty quirky ship. :)

 

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It's fun because it's different. It's not bad but it's not particularly great - it's what Little White Mouse calls a "mehbote". 

The guns can be rather derpy hence all the jokes about them being drunk in the Drunkerque.

Buy it because it's fun and different not because it's going to smash faces like a Belfast.

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Posted (edited)

Picked it up.  What the heck, so I don't buy lunch once this week.  This ship seems eccentric. 

 

- I have to say that I'm not 100% sure where these guns are shooting a significant amount of the time. -

Edited by Devo

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On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:08 AM, bathoz said:

The way I've discussed it earlier is like so:

Gun stats tend to exist on something of a linear distribution. DPM on one side, accuracy/reliability on the other. In tier six this is easy to see. One one side you have the Fuso, and on the other you have the Warspite.

Except, here's the Dunkerque, with both bottom of tier DPM AND near bottom of tier accuracy. Heck, the guns good points actually work against it, as the high shell speed increase verticle dispersion and the huge pen (combined with flat arcs) mean that you over penetrate many more ships than you'd expect.

How Terrible touched on how to use HE to make it a worthwile ship - with a base 35% chance for each round to start a fire - boostable to 39% with Demolition Expert Captain skill and both Fire flags.  It has a long range of 19+ km, and you can use all 8 barrels without giving much of a target at the start of a match.  if you land 3 of the 8 shells on a slow BB ( Arizona, New Mex, Warspite ....) your base chance to start a fire is 117% cumulative.  Assuming the driver blows an early Damage Control party, your next volley will continue burning when it lands - at least for the duration of his Damage Control cool down - or enhanced fire prevention skills.  While I don't recommend sitting bow on and sniping ( the armor is so bad that you will get overmatched bow on by everyone - even another Dunk I think ) - you should be moving from cover to cover, setting stuff on fire every 30 seconds - low tier weak armored cruisers can be HE citadelled easier with your HE than the AP in close range.  If I do get BB broadside, I am aiming upper belt with my AP, too many shells will go everywhere but the waterline and fall short if you aim at the waterline.

I know enough to not bother with HE in a normal BB unless it is dire circumstances with a tough bow on BB.  But the Dunk is not a BB, it is a Battle Cruiser - fast and fairly maneuverable with a neat trick that lets you get 8 barrels on a target without  lifting your skirt up and showing the goods ( going broadside for younger millennials ).  Play it like a cruiser with a heal and great fire starting and you will enjoy it more easily than trying to be a "model" BB.

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I don't use HE unless I'm fighting another Dunkerque, it's AP is fantastic, good ballistics, great at deleting cruisers and destroyers. Very fun ship

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8 minutes ago, Psycodiver said:

I don't use HE unless I'm fighting another Dunkerque, it's AP is fantastic, good ballistics, great at deleting cruisers and destroyers. Very fun ship

In reality it's AP actually has too much pen and you get almost nothing but over pens on broadside cruisers, assuming you even hit them with the terrible dispersion in the first place. You might get lucky and get a citadel here and there, but regular penetration damage is hard to come by on cruisers with the Dunkerque. It's a mediocre ship whose only saving grace is the fact that you can play bow in while still keeping 100% of your firepower in the fight and it's fairly fast for a tier six battleship. If I'm looking for carrying ability and consistent performance I would look to the Bayern, Warspite, maybe even the Arizona over the Dunkerque.

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I average 62k damage with a 30% accuracy in it, under 14 km she is accurate for me. Maybe she just works for me

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9 hours ago, BiggieD61 said:

your base chance to start a fire is 117%

That's not how cumulative probabilities is calculated with multiple independent events. You are calculating it as X1+X2+X3 ... = 1.17 where X is the probability of starting a fire and the number represent the number of shells hitting. You can't have more than a 100% chance of starting a fire. The equation you need to use is 1 - X^N where N is the number of hits. So with three shells landing your cumulative probability would be 1 - .39^3 = .94 or 94%. If all 8 shells land it's 1 - .39^8 = .999 or 99.9% chance of starting a fire.

With all that being said, I landed four HE hits with a BB that had a 32% chance of starting a fire. That should have been a 98.9% cumulative probability of starting a fire, and I didn't get one. I think that if you hit a ship in a section that has already had a fire then the chance of fire is reduced. It was a long time ago that I heard that so I don't remember the source. Has anyone else heard that or know if there is a source if it's true?

 

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On 21/07/2017 at 8:36 PM, BiggieD61 said:

The Fleur De Lis camo - Da Bomb Dot Com!

Seriously, the ship is sooo much better looking with that camo, thankfully it's not weeb like at all.

I find it *a trifle* too gaudy.

 

I'll probably get it though.

21 minutes ago, MntRunner said:

That's not how cumulative probabilities is calculated with multiple independent events. You are calculating it as X1+X2+X3 ... = 1.17 where X is the probability of starting a fire and the number represent the number of shells hitting. You can't have more than a 100% chance of starting a fire. The equation you need to use is 1 - X^N where N is the number of hits. So with three shells landing your cumulative probability would be 1 - .39^3 = .94 or 94%. If all 8 shells land it's 1 - .39^8 = .999 or 99.9% chance of starting a fire.

With all that being said, I landed four HE hits with a BB that had a 32% chance of starting a fire. That should have been a 98.9% cumulative probability of starting a fire, and I didn't get one. I think that if you hit a ship in a section that has already had a fire then the chance of fire is reduced. It was a long time ago that I heard that so I don't remember the source. Has anyone else heard that or know if there is a source if it's true?

 

Err… don't ship have a fire resistance coefficient ?

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59 minutes ago, Sidus_Preclarum said:

Err… don't ship have a fire resistance coefficient ?

Yes I think they have that too. I'm also pretty sure it gets harder to start fires on ships that have already been on fire. This is one area that WG is awful at, no go documentation or place to go to find out exactly how game mechanics work.

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uh ?

From the wiki :

Quote

Fire Chance

Each ship hull in the game has a fire resistance coefficient. These are not specific to individual ships and are dictated solely based on ship tier and the currently equipped hull (premium ships always use the Top Hull coefficient for their tier). Due to how fire chance is calculated, the lower the coefficient, the more resistant a ship is to catching fire. The coefficients are shown below:

Ship Tier Fire Resistance Coefficient
(Stock Hull)
Fire Resistance Coefficient
(Top Hull)
Tier I 1.0000
Tier II
Tier III 1.0000 0.9667
Tier IV 0.9334 0.9001
Tier V 0.8668 0.8335
Tier VI 0.8002 0.7669
Tier VII 0.7336 0.7003
Tier VIII 0.6670 0.6337
Tier IX 0.6004 0.5671
Tier X 0.5338 0.5005

The chance to set fire for a single high explosive shell (or aircraft bomb) hitting a section is calculated by the following formula:

[Fire Resistance Coefficient] x ( 1 - [Damage Control Modification 1] - [Fire Prevention] ) x ( [Projectile Base Fire Chance] + [Demolition Expert] + [Signals] - [Inertial Fuse for HE Shells]) = Fire Chance

 

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20 minutes ago, Sidus_Preclarum said:

uh ?

From the wiki :

 

Nice. Although, I've found though that the wiki doesn't always go into the details and calculations behind a mechanic. At least it's been that way for WOT, and it took WG a long time to provide details about WOWS dispersion mechanics.

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I ran the numbers. Against a top hull tier 6 ship that has damage control mod but not captain skill, and using DE but no signal flags or IFHE you the Dunk has a 28% chance of causing a fire per shell.

0.7669 * (1.00 - 0.05 -0.00) * (0.36 +0.03 +0.00 - 0.00) = 0.284 or 28.4%

I also made a mistake in my calculation of independent events. It's not 1-prob^N, it's 1 - ProbNot^N where ProbNot is the probability of not causing a fire. My mistake. Anyway, if the Dunk lands three shells against a tier 6 top hull ship it has a 63% chance of causing a fire. 1 - (1-.284)^3.

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I like this ship.  It's the naval equivalent of a shotgun in a FPS.  Long range fire, probably won't hit much, but get closer and let the guns do their magic.

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8 hours ago, MntRunner said:

I ran the numbers. Against a top hull tier 6 ship that has damage control mod but not captain skill, and using DE but no signal flags or IFHE you the Dunk has a 28% chance of causing a fire per shell.

0.7669 * (1.00 - 0.05 -0.00) * (0.36 +0.03 +0.00 - 0.00) = 0.284 or 28.4%

I also made a mistake in my calculation of independent events. It's not 1-prob^N, it's 1 - ProbNot^N where ProbNot is the probability of not causing a fire. My mistake. Anyway, if the Dunk lands three shells against a tier 6 top hull ship it has a 63% chance of causing a fire. 1 - (1-.284)^3.

OMG! - "Welcome to Min-Max Mart for all your disgustingly precise and mathematically supported game playing needs!"

I am embarrassed by my stated claim of 117% cumulative - and I can't even claim that I haven't taken basic prob. and stats classes in college ( although that was back in 1981 ).  Let me rephrase my original statement -

"Dis bitch here be spittin' fire ... BOI!"

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2 hours ago, Devo said:

I like this ship.  It's the naval equivalent of a shotgun in a FPS.  Long range fire, probably won't hit much, but get closer and let the guns do their magic.

That's true of basically any battleship, not just the Dunkerque.

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19 hours ago, RollerCoaster47 said:

That's true of basically any battleship, not just the Dunkerque.

Yes, but the cone of dispersion on the Dunk is much larger than the other ships that I have played to this point.  Obviously, all the guns have greater dispersion as the range increases.  These shell patterns just remind me of the intertwining missile launches in Robotech.  

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It stands to reason, that Dunkerque is actually one of the most, if not the most accurate battleship at the tier. What she suffers from is, likely, an inversion of the battleship scatter-gunning you usually get. See, unlike all battleships in game, the shots are fairly well grouped, both due to her gun-layout (four guns in a turret with limited dispersion between each) and two turrets being close to each other in most sensible firing positions. She brackets her targets so often, because she is too accurate by battleship-standars.

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1 hour ago, Madner Kami said:

It stands to reason, that Dunkerque is actually one of the most, if not the most accurate battleship at the tier. What she suffers from is, likely, an inversion of the battleship scatter-gunning you usually get. See, unlike all battleships in game, the shots are fairly well grouped, both due to her gun-layout (four guns in a turret with limited dispersion between each) and two turrets being close to each other in most sensible firing positions. She brackets her targets so often, because she is too accurate by battleship-standars.

That makes no sense at all, what the fuck are you even saying? The Dunkerque is one of, if not the most inaccurate battleships at tier six. Gun layout and bracketing have nothing to do with it.

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I've found that the dispersion is much tighter when I fire directly ahead (B turret fires over the top of A turret) compared to when I fire to the side of the ship. 

Firing to the side has the two groups of shells appearing to land beside each other instead of on top of each other.

It could be that this is true for every ship but with only two turrets and four guns in each,  the effect is magnified and very noticeable.

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I agree with this, its something I noticed also, but with other ships also like the NC, Iowa and NM when firing bow on with the forward guns

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