Jarkorsis

RN CL discussion What do you think

65 posts in this topic

I am only at T4, so my opinion is incomplete. The Heal is nice, but in typical USSR fashion, it is bate and switch. Give something a heal, but make sure it is short of HP. I think these will be the toughest ships to play in WOWS. T9 and T10 look very good. I think getting to T9 will take a while and require a lot of patience, and even more skill.

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way too focused on AP spam from smoke for my taste... i already thought cruisers were weak and hate getting 1/3-2/3 of my HP erased by BB, so yeah... not going near those at all. At least they are fun to farm, you can citadel the tier 3 brit CL with Kuma HE...

It made me appreciate the Kutuzov alot more. Same style with slightly worse AP (still very good if anyone give u broadside, never underestimate Stalin AP) but with slightly broken HE and much much better arcs, and more armor.

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Wasted space outside of smoke, barely above worthless inside. Or so it goes as far as the Emerald and earlier.

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Others merely prefer broadsiding targets. But RN CLs need broadsiding targets to function at all.

The insult is that this applies to supposedly soft targets like DD and CV.

This is similar to how arty mechanic is not fun in WoT. You get hit in RN CL, bam, you get deleted. Enemy shows broadside, bam, they get raked with massive dpm (high tiers at least). Meanwhile, you just... sail.

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The Caldeon was fun. The Danae was the same but saw a lot more Konigs, which... eeesh.

Emerald, I often feel like I'm doing a lot of work, then realise I've not done a whole lot of damage at the end. Part of this is that the Emerald does not have high DPM though. 6 gun broadside (in ideal circumstances, usually five) at 8 rpm kinda pales compared to every other ship in tier. But let's pretend we're in smoke able to put all six on target.

Those six guns mean 48 (indifferent) shells per minute.
Konigsberg fires 72 at higher range, with better everything.
Omaha 60, arguably better, shells per minute.
Heck, even the Kirov gets close enough with 36 of those 180mm things.

Now, there's a lot of detail left out in that comparison, but the face remains, not a lot of firepower. The torps are nice, though.

None qualitative thoughts so far:

The time to target feels a little off. Or maybe the british ships go faster than their 'speed' suggests, I don't know. I find I have to lead more than usual - and I use a time-to-target method.

Second gripe. Why the hell is the AP ammo bound to 1? Can't they just make it two and prevent bad muscle memory issues?

As others have said, I reckon giving them an indifferent HE shell would not change these ships overall performance.

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I've made it to (stock) Leander but they're mediocre at best, and mostly pretty awful so far. Caledon felt okay at times. I guess many people feel the same because you hardly see British cruisers in the game any more.

The main problems in my opinion:

-Completely useless against BBs at range, even ones at a lower tier. Which is especially wonderful if the meta means you see close to 50% BBs per side in many matches.

-Smoke is a joke with the 2 puffs at best and the weird conditions required for the second one to trigger

-Get citadel'd no matter the angle, some even by destroyer HE. Nothing says fun like getting deleted from max health through the bow from something beyond your gun range.

-Practically everything about the guns:

   +Disappointing damage output even under optimal conditions

   +Inaccurate

   +High shell arcs result in a tiny area the enemy has to be in to actually get hit.

10 hours ago, Crossfader said:

way too focused on AP spam from smoke for my taste... i already thought cruisers were weak and hate getting 1/3-2/3 of my HP erased by BB, so yeah... not going near those at all. At least they are fun to farm, you can citadel the tier 3 brit CL with Kuma HE...

It made me appreciate the Kutuzov alot more. Same style with slightly worse AP (still very good if anyone give u broadside, never underestimate Stalin AP) but with slightly broken HE and much much better arcs, and more armor.

Playing low tier BBs, especially German ones, during the initial spam must have been great. Nobody can cause any meaningful damage to your ship from beyond 6km, and it feels like every salvo results in at least one citadel.

1 hour ago, bathoz said:

The Caldeon was fun. The Danae was the same but saw a lot more Konigs, which... eeesh.

Emerald, I often feel like I'm doing a lot of work, then realise I've not done a whole lot of damage at the end. Part of this is that the Emerald does not have high DPM though. 6 gun broadside (in ideal circumstances, usually five) at 8 rpm kinda pales compared to every other ship in tier. But let's pretend we're in smoke able to put all six on target.

Those six guns mean 48 (indifferent) shells per minute.
Konigsberg fires 72 at higher range, with better everything.
Omaha 60, arguably better, shells per minute.
Heck, even the Kirov gets close enough with 36 of those 180mm things.

Now, there's a lot of detail left out in that comparison, but the face remains, not a lot of firepower. The torps are nice, though.

None qualitative thoughts so far:

The time to target feels a little off. Or maybe the british ships go faster than their 'speed' suggests, I don't know. I find I have to lead more than usual - and I use a time-to-target method.

Second gripe. Why the hell is the AP ammo bound to 1? Can't they just make it two and prevent bad muscle memory issues?

As others have said, I reckon giving them an indifferent HE shell would not change these ships overall performance.

I've repeatedly managed to bully Leanders in a Murmansk, and they weren't even horrible players when you're going by how far they made it in ranked. Turn on hydro, drive in the smoke, dodge torps, laugh as they try to do any meaningful damage with 4 barrels of 152mm AP, or watch them go broadside and receive multiple citadels every salvo.

Didn't the WG video claim they'd be hard to citadel?

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7 hours ago, CompanionCav said:

 

The insult is that this applies to supposedly soft targets like DD and CV.

 

i angled away from a Leander in the Blyska, i could safely ignore him while i engaged other targets. He just bounced of my ass and from time to time would get a 310 dmg over pen on my superstructure

i think Flamuu summed it up best

 

Rushed out and unfinished gimmicks the lot of em 

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6 hours ago, _Goliard said:

Didn't the WG video claim they'd be hard to citadel?

The Leander citadel at least is completely below the waterline, not that it helps much. Emerald and lower however, the only parts of the ship that aren't citadel are the bow, stern, and superstructure. It's almost impossible to miss the citadel and still hit one of those.

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Yeah, IIRC the tier 7 & 8 have a citadel which is basically waterline or lower, but all the rest are just hilarious. And no HE. I'm not even bothering, though they are fun to shoot at.

(Not fun to have on the same team though, and speedy enough that people new to cruisers/new to game can be hazardous. "Hey, a friendly DD whirling in the cap, setting smoke and launching their torpedoes at the enemy while in the smoke. I SHOULD SAIL DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEM" because derp derp derp. Alternately, there is the "LAUNCH TORPEDOES AT ENEMY" too far away, but hopefully nail the friendly DD in the way.)

I enjoy citadelling the RN cruisers.

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They're hot garbage that somehow manage to be both terrible as individual ships and bad for the overall game by introducing even more unnecessary smoke.

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I'm kind of glad that I wasn't particularly interested in this line to begin with. Though it WG fucks up either RN BB's or DD's I'll be pissed.

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It's the first really bad line that I can think of WG introducing in this game. It needs reworked to make them viable.

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1 hour ago, OnboardG1 said:

It's the first really bad line that I can think of WG introducing in this game. It needs reworked to make them viable.

After the long string of good choices they have made over the last year or so they were bound to have a fuck up at some point.

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4 hours ago, How_Terrible said:

After the long string of good choices they have made over the last year or so they were bound to have a fuck up at some point.

i just hope its not a symptom of a greater problem.... the need for every new line to have a "gimmick" unique play style.

Thats gonna run out real fast seeing as we need the rest of the RN lines, full French tree, full Italian tree and the rest of the Russians, plus some more USN on top of all the other stuff they can dig up.

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12 hours ago, _Goliard said:

Didn't the WG video claim they'd be hard to citadel?

Fairly certain that this was just Jingles bullshitting (and hence his fanboys perpetuating the bullshit all over the place) and not one of the official WG-videos. Even in their QnA with Jingles they were pretty perplexed as per why he even suggests that this may be the case, for quite obvious reasons. Having a citadel on level with water or below it, only means it's harder to hit the citadel the more flat your shell's trajectory gets (and, assuming you have enough layers of armor, protect you from plunging citadels). But, if you played even a single game and paid attention to how your shells actually fly, you'll soon realize that there is only one place where shell trajectories are flat enough to really "overshoot" the citadel: Up close in knife-fighting range. And this is probably the one place where you absolutely do not want to be, when fighting anything that can penetrate your armor and citadel you, which is basically everything.

Well, technically battleships and some of the larger cruisers will not be able to get their guns down far enough if you get really close, I guess, but then again, everything has secondaries and some of them are quite capable of citadelling shit.

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2 hours ago, Crossfader said:

i just hope its not a symptom of a greater problem.... the need for every new line to have a "gimmick" unique play style.

I could see that thinking, but I don't think it was a necessary "gimmick" though process so much as "how the hell do we make an entire line of light cruisers work?"  For any other, more traditional tech tree, I don't think this problem would have occurred.

Even then, what WG has done could have been a fun, viable line of unique ships, except for their slavish obedience to historically-accurate shell velocities while seemingly every other stat/mechanic is open to bending when necessary.  If these ships had reasonably useful shell trajectories, they'd be fine.

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Maybe its different in the high tiers, but with the Leander at least, I just pick a cap, rush in to it, smoke, scatter dd's/decimate cruisers, rush some more, smoke, etc. Rinse and repeat. I think it was Flammu that originally said of the Belfast it has too many tools. It seems to be true of all of them. And because of their reliance on smoke/heal/hydro for the entirety of their play style paying for prem consumables gives them a far larger performance boost than anything else would get. I'm not even particularly good and I'm over performing consistently in the Emerald and then Leander.

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3 hours ago, Mesrith said:

 except for their slavish obedience to historically-accurate shell velocities while seemingly every other stat/mechanic is open to bending when necessary.

Yeah dont get that one, like there new rule of maintaining caliber size for an entire line, which they pulled out of there asses to "explain" the Gneis having 15" guns

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The heals on these things are pretty useless considering how much of the damage they take comes from citadel hits. If they could repair 100% of all damage taken, the heals might actually do something worthwhile.

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12 minutes ago, TouchFluffyTail said:

The heals on these things are pretty useless considering how much of the damage they take comes from citadel hits. If they could repair 100% of all damage taken, the heals might actually do something worthwhile.

They do heal cit damage at tier 8+. Straight from the devs mouth.

18 hours ago, bathoz said:

Second gripe. Why the hell is the AP ammo bound to 1? Can't they just make it two and prevent bad muscle memory issues?

As others have said, I reckon giving them an indifferent HE shell would not change these ships overall performance.

On my client at least, pressing either 1 or 2 switches to AP, despite the UI saying 1. I had the same gripe at first until I realized it worked.

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Does nothing  for the rest, I know for certain the t3-5 only repair citadel damage at ~10%.

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This line is simply horrible. Up to tier V it simply sucks, tier V is only halfway decent which, under the current MM means it still sucks. Leander slowly gets going with enough guns to actually do something.

Still I am currenlty enjoying the Gneisenau in my super agressive DD style of play and deleted at least one RN CL every game during the weekend. They can't do much to me when angled and as soon as the smoke is gone or they are flushed out (or mess up smoking) the chance for citadel deletion is immense. I double citadelled a Fiji through the stern...

Fiji actually seems decent but basically you try to scavenge broadsiders and the bad shell velocity makes that hard at range.

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Finished the Danae and it was below average. I had a few good games when someone had a brain cramp. (Konig went bow on full stop between 2 islands and ignored me as I pulled out far enough to pump 6 torps into him) and did 60k one game and 44k another. I had a few kills against DD's. Emerald has 961 flat trajectory AP, so is pretty solid. You have to aim differently using this  Ammo and it still is sub par against CA's and BB's.

T3/4 840ish velocity shot is suborbital. SO like US DD's. T6-8 is the same. T9-10 goes down to 760ish like US CAs, so will be very challenging. I think line will be Novelty act for me. IJN, German and US will be finished first. Then Soviet and UK. I would not be surprised if this line is reworked in 6 months or so.

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I played through the tier 3, my opinion is that it's trash. Only things I liked were the heal and individual torps. On another note, you can overpen the Fiji's citadel at 6km with the Colorado.

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Right. I'm going to be doing my tiny ship reviews, because it helps me get my thoughts together.

Caledon - Tier 3

I got a Kraken in my first game in a Caledon, but never really reached those heights again. Still, I enjoyed this ship – probably because I played it in a sea of Weymouths and other Caledons.

It most closely resembles the Tenryu, in that it's a quick, nimble, stealth and relatively long ranged cruiser with multiple weapon systems in a tier of lumbering barges. It feels more like a high tier cruiser than a low tier one. Unfortunately, it sees Kaisers, Myogis, Ishizuchis and Nikolais, all of whom have essentially zero superstructure and more complete armour that higher tier BBs.

That said, the guns really rip into the St Louis.

Pros

  • Prettiest tier three ship. Damn thing is purdy
  • Agile, fast, stealthy. Lots of ability to outplay
  • Heal is novel
  • The torp system is sweet

Cons

  • You're not a kuma, but you have similar levels of citadel
  • The guns are... underwelming – they're pretty floaty and feel difficult to lead
  • You have very, very little HP and low dp

 

Danae - Tier 4

A Caledon but bigger.

That's it. Just the same ship, but with one more gun and the ability to see tier 5 ships. Oh, it has hydro, so that's nice. That matchmaking change made it feel worse, tier for tier, though, as the quality step up from dreadnoughts to superdreadnoughts is enourmous. That said, the quick, agile, fragile, spot is now occupied by basically every cruiser in tier. This is actually a positive, as it give you more ships that are likely to show you too much broadside and allow you to punish them.

Weirdly, in this tier I started experimenting with ignoring single fires ala Battleships. In fact, I found I was hitting the repair button a lot less frequently than in other cruisers.

Pros

  • Agile as balls. Torp strikes are not your problem unless you're fast asleep.
  • The combination of range/stealth allow for some interesting things
  • This is the first tier you can really do the 'kill the DD' game
  • You can heal
  • Still pretty
  • Yay, torps, I guess

Cons

  • The armor is so thin, you can get citadelled by HE
  • And dive bombers. In fact, dive bombers are terrifying
  • The BB meta is still strong, and they ignore you until they delete you
  • It felt like it took a surprising amount of engine hits

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