bask185

IS what gun do you use.

44 posts in this topic

Prior to the game breaking accuracy nerf I once played the chinese IS2. I liked the tank, it was quite manouvrable. Low ground resistance, high topseed and epic traverse speed. Back than I also liked the 122mm topgun on it. Damage/dpm wise it is OP as firetruck for tier 7 and in prior-accuracy-nerf era the 0.46 accuracy was not that a big of a problem.

Far later I got me an IS just after it's 100mm received a buff. I never changed it to 122mm gun. I liked the 100mm too much. Your DPM is nearly the same and despite you lose 140 alpha damage there are a few things you get in return which IMO outweighs the loss in damage.
- 0.38 vs 0.46 accuracy. As IS tanks you will see a lot of IS3 and superpershing tanks. And with 0.38 accuracy you actually get a chance in hitting their weakspots.
- one whole extra degree of gun depression. 100mm has -7 and it feels like a world of difference
- 3.4 vs 2.9 second aim time, just nice
- Faster rate of fire allows you to permatrack enemies.

My conclusion is that the 100m is just signifcantly more reliable.

The IS is the best tier 7 heavy meavium which can also do things an an actuall heavy. I dug me up this replay of previous week 
http://wotreplays.com/site/3055569  was not having the best rng and aiming moments when it came to shooting is3, SP and O-ni. Bounced me a lot of shots but I still got me 4200 damage. And I highly doubt if I could even hit the SP with the 122mm

I heared that a lot of people still like to castrate their selfes by equiping the 122mm for that tiny little ammount of extra damage so I wondered what do you use on the IS?

P.S. I always totally outskill....   outplay...  out-RNG other  IS tank w/ 122mm 
http://wotreplays.com/site/3055555  (enemy IS was also bad player though, kinda did more than out-RNG him)

 

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41 minutes ago, bask185 said:

Prior to the game breaking accuracy nerf I once played the chinese IS2. I liked the tank, it was quite manouvrable. Low ground resistance, high topseed and epic traverse speed. Back than I also liked the 122mm topgun on it. Damage/dpm wise it is OP as firetruck for tier 7 and in prior-accuracy-nerf era the 0.46 accuracy was not that a big of a problem.

Far later I got me an IS just after it's 100mm received a buff. I never changed it to 122mm gun. I liked the 100mm too much. Your DPM is nearly the same and despite you lose 140 alpha damage there are a few things you get in return which IMO outweighs the loss in damage.
- 0.38 vs 0.46 accuracy. As IS tanks you will see a lot of IS3 and superpershing tanks. And with 0.38 accuracy you actually get a chance in hitting their weakspots.
- one whole extra degree of gun depression. 100mm has -7 and it feels like a world of difference
- 3.4 vs 2.9 second aim time, just nice
- Faster rate of fire allows you to permatrack enemies.

My conclusion is that the 100m is just signifcantly more reliable.

The IS is the best tier 7 heavy meavium which can also do things an an actuall heavy. I dug me up this replay of previous week 
http://wotreplays.com/site/3055569  was not having the best rng and aiming moments when it came to shooting is3, SP and O-ni. Bounced me a lot of shots but I still got me 4200 damage. And I highly doubt if I could even hit the SP with the 122mm

I heared that a lot of people still like to castrate their selfes by equiping the 122mm for that tiny little ammount of extra damage so I wondered what do you use on the IS?

P.S. I always totally outskill....   outplay...  out-RNG other  IS tank w/ 122mm 
http://wotreplays.com/site/3055555  (enemy IS was also bad player though, kinda did more than out-RNG him)

 

You are not without reason in your statements.

23 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

The 122...

Theres a reason the 100mm is called the ID10T gun. 

Now, idiot gun was a name before - while it still had 0.42 acc which was same shot as 0.46, and meh aim time. meta changed a lot, various stuff changed...

Now it has 2.7 sec aim time, and 235 APCR is life saving superior to 217 since the introduction of O-Ni, and IS-3/6/112 HD buff.

I can tell you that i grinded through both IS and IS-2 with clearly better results on 122, but that was ages ago. Basically, 100 mm was there just to ease you the stock grind, maybe even slightly better than the 1st 122 on IS-2.

 

But, but, but...I used 100 mm for quite some time with KV-85, and it has exactly same stats as on IS (only worse penetration - but actually higher tier for tier). Very accurate and good soft stats, ppl like @Assassin7 clearly haven´t tried it lately vs 122s and or fought IS-6/3 with it.

It was OP as fuck in tier 6, and all the shortcomings were due to crap chassis - slower than before, armorless and no gun depression at all (-3).

Now i think it is not fair that IS-2 has still the shitty 100 mm - so clearly the 122 is there better.

But if i I play again the Soviet IS, 100 mm is now viable, maybe not better outright, bur viable. This is not 8.8 l 100 vs 10,5 on E 50, more like 90 mm vs 10,5 on T-29.

Fully fact, 100 mm is still the same old crap on KV-3 (0.42, 350 less dpm, longer aim time). 

But even if they give it improved 100 mm, KV-3 is slower and better armored - and can sidescrape. IS is more agile, very little useful armor against same tier tanks, and can not sidescrape - so if it can snapshot/snipe/trade 2 for 1, it helps a lot. Especially against your brothers with 122 mm guns (IS/IS-2/IS-3/IS-6/KV-3/WZ and 112.

Overall verdict - give it a go.

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30 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

122mm -> overmatching side armor ...

And T29 turret roof.

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13 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

And T29 turret roof.

I know the magic of the number 122, add the IS-3 and T30 to the list. IS-3 has only 20 mm roof, so there 100 mm can overmatch easier and 2 for 1 - small target.

IS-3 can do that reliably, with derpy  D-25T it is much harder and takes like 3-4 seconds. 

If it works for you, great...but it is much easier to simply trade 2 for 1 or snapshot without taking dmg.

How good are your hand-eye coordination plays a great part in this.

122 rules for KV-3, but that tank can take punishment while it aims...

For me KV-3>>>IS-100 >IS-122

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3 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

And T29 turret roof.

yeah that may be so, but you still gotta actually hit the turret roof first. And with 0.46 accuracy you dont even have to try such a shot beyond the 20 meters

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I hated the tank with the 122, especially during late game when the shots tend to matter.  I ended up going back to the 100 mm and following the meds in most games.  I did not love the IS, and did not succeed in the IS, I am not the guy to be giving advice on the IS.

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12 minutes ago, 91manius said:

IMHO IS with 100mm have not balls.

True...

But then again, KV-3 is the true ballsy tank. 

IS needs food to make 122 gun handling under control.

And 217+0.46  is rly not enough for tanks listed above (IS-6/3...). Tiger does fine with 203 by shooting weakspots without the need for apcr, but...

Problem is the unreliable armor - to aim long enough to do dmg with 122, you are giving enemies too much time to hit you.

I honestly thing that every player doing good with 122 would do just as good with 100 mm. 

You lose a bit of performance on some maps, gain huge on others.

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Its not only about dpg you can get.

Other thing is that VII tier + 390 alpha in something having armor (reliable or not) and turret is just pure fun to play. Other thing is that 240 alpha is nothing scary for VIII tiers - not saying about IX. Losing 400 dmg can hurt even on IX tiers.

And another thing. This is one of the few tanks in this came combining good alpha and good dpm.

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In my opinion, it kinda depends if you're playing platoons or solo.

I used both guns, with 122mm solo, and 100mm while in plutons.
Same shait with the SU-101.

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Honestly, if you want to play a DPM Tier 7 heavy, the Tiger does it better. Hitting people for 400 is what makes the IS special imho.

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7 hours ago, Felicius said:

I know the magic of the number 122, add the IS-3 and T30 to the list. IS-3 has only 20 mm roof, so there 100 mm can overmatch easier and 2 for 1 - small target.

IS-3 can do that reliably, with derpy  D-25T it is much harder and takes like 3-4 seconds. 

If it works for you, great...but it is much easier to simply trade 2 for 1 or snapshot without taking dmg.

How good are your hand-eye coordination plays a great part in this.

122 rules for KV-3, but that tank can take punishment while it aims...

For me KV-3>>>IS-100 >IS-122

4 years ago 122mm was a monster on VII tier. After 130 battles I reached 67% WR and 1593 DPG. Note that I was a rather average player back then and accuracy was way worse. Nowadays after some buffs to ID10T gun it may be a more viable choice than it used to be but 390 alpha dmg on this tier is still too powerful to ignore it. IS with this gun can two shot almost every TD VII and with HE shells rekt all those paper tanks like 2nd TD German line or Scorpion G. 

Personally I'd like to have on my side HT with high alpha than RoF. 

4 hours ago, bask185 said:

yeah that may be so, but you still gotta actually hit the turret roof first. And with 0.46 accuracy you dont even have to try such a shot beyond the 20 meters

Successfully sniping from 500m+ with 0,56 real (including every boost) accuracy so don't tell me it's hard to do so with base 0,46 [insert laughing SerB meme]

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12 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

4 years ago 122mm was a monster on VII tier. After 130 battles I reached 67% WR and 1593 DPG. Note that I was a rather average player back then and accuracy was way worse. Nowadays after some buffs to ID10T gun it may be a more viable choice than it used to be but 390 alpha dmg on this tier is still too powerful to ignore it. IS with this gun can two shot almost every TD VII and with HE shells rekt all those paper tanks like 2nd TD German line or Scorpion G. 

Personally I'd like to have on my side HT with high alpha than RoF. 

Successfully sniping from 500m+ with 0,56 real (including every boost) accuracy so don't tell me it's hard to do so with base 0,46 [insert laughing SerB meme]

I get what you say...I just said that 100 mm is now as viable as 122. Depending on playstyle it could be a tad better, or a tad worse.

100 mm has 250 alpha...not 240...

And 122 HE is rly good shell...that is why the gun was chosen IRL in the 1st place. German paper line has sweet tears. But 18 mm more APCR penn+ 0.08 better acc helps you hit weakspots mid-range, where this gun is most effective.

122 is a close range brawler... long range sniping is possible even with 152 mm derps...but only on stationary targets. 100 mm deals with meds better, and extends the range where you can deal with TDs effectively

Overall, it comes down on your playstyle. I never felt i could rely on IS armor, while with KV-3 i could (in sidescrape), so 100 mm gun is a welcome choice for some players. It feels like a cheap Tiger knock-out, that trades sexy gun for some armor and agility. But gun feels almost as good as on Tiger mid-range, soft stats are almost the same, and 0.38 vs 0.34 is not so big deal as 0.42 or 0.46.(+only 2.7 aim, for mid tier Soviet guns laser aim). I tried to use the 122 and mobility to flank as much as possible (when I was not top tier), but never felt really comfortable driving it.

IS-100 is considerably less fun than IS-122, and in no way a keeper tank, though. I would keep KV-3-122 if i had a spare crew, though, along my Tiger and T-29 (3 best not only of heavies, but also of all tanks in tier 7)

But if I had to grind the IS again, I would choose 100 mm. I had a lot of fun with KV-85+100 mm, and that gun is 100% same as on IS, just better penetration. I often wondered why it took so long to buff IS 100 mm gun after they introduced KV-85.

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22 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

Successfully sniping from 500m+ with 0,56 real (including every boost) accuracy so don't tell me it's hard to do so with base 0,46 [insert laughing SerB meme]

Dude please. There is an almost equal chance that our shells land in every random spot of our aim circle. Unlike before the accuracy nerf when shells had an increased chance of landing somewhere near the middle. But hey I also once hit and pentrated the E100's police bar with a T-44 from 430 meters away, it happens

"and accuracy was way worse" as far as I recall it has always been 0.46, but lets put that on a side note for now. Click the next link, watch the youtube video and start looking from 2:10 until 2:40.

Update 9.6 Review

When you have watched this video plz repeat after me: "Unicorns are not always right". 

Please do not be offended.

May Great Comrade Stalin watch over all of us! (except for those who click battle with artillery, those may burn)

 

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Get more info before writing a post like this. In patch 8.6 alongside with arty nerf WG buffed global accuracy. I was playing IS long before that and trust me that difference is huge. 

6 minutes ago, bask185 said:

There is an almost equal chance that our shells land in every random spot of our aim circle.

And very next sentence:

6 minutes ago, bask185 said:

Unlike before the accuracy nerf when shells had an increased chance of landing somewhere near the middle.

Please return when you read more about accuracy http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#Accuracy_and_Dispersion

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for the Chinese IS-2 grind , I went back to using the 100mm gun , and never , ever regretted it ,

the USSR IS Tank 122mm gun for some reason , is also more accurate , so that was the gun that I used during the grind .........

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2 hours ago, 73north said:

for the Chinese IS-2 grind , I went back to using the 100mm gun , and never , ever regretted it ,

the USSR IS Tank 122mm gun for some reason , is also more accurate , so that was the gun that I used during the grind .........

Sorry, man, but 100 mm Chinese gun is the worst possible choice.

IS-2 have worse dispersion values on hull movement and traverse than IS - that is why it feels more derpy. HEAT is also maybe the reason (slower, and can be eaten by tracks). Running 100 mm it has no better soft stats (USSR 100 mm gets better turret dispersion).

IS-2 have some slight advantages (and disadvantages) over IS, but only if you run 122 mm. 250 HEAT is sometimes better than 217 APCR when shooting heavily armored targets. If you

But 100 mm Chinese has not only lower DPM than Tiger (USSR 100 mm also, but not that much - armor advantage can offset that), but also way lower than USSR 100 mm. you lost like 300+ dpm, and in return you get a meagre 0.42+2.9, not much of an improvement at all vs 0.38+2.7

With USSR 100 vs 122 mm you at least know you traded alpha for accuracy, aim time, penetration, with no loss of dpm.

if you simply can not make any 122s work, then go with it. Stock 100 is better only than 1st 122. I hope you tried the last one. 1st 122 can put you off, but 2nd is much better.

USSR 100>=<USSR 122 (depending on playstyle).

China 122 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>China 100.

China 122>USSR 122 (250 HEAT>217 APCR for me,  at least). It did troll me too much in WZ-111, but i liked it in IS-2.

 

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Now, I like 122 guns for fun factor, and they inspire fear.

But 100 mm can get you the element of surprise a lot of times.

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4 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

Get more info before writing a post like this. In patch 8.6 alongside with arty nerf WG buffed global accuracy. I was playing IS long before that and trust me that difference is huge. 

And very next sentence:

Please return when you read more about accuracy http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#Accuracy_and_Dispersion

That thing with the standard shell deviation was in place before 9.6, I know because I actually read the wiki long before 9.6.

In 9.6 patch notes:
Changed the distribution of hits at the aiming circle (reduced the number of hits at the very center of the reticle
I really noticed the effect of that stupid 9.6 patch, shots were flying everywhere, I actually swapped out my FCM's toolbox for a frkn gun laying drive because I suddenly missed every god damned snapshot I took..

in 8.6 notes I found 

  • Changed the mechanism of shot accuracy calculation. Now amount of shells falling on side of the aiming circle will decrease by 20%. Shells will fly more accurately and closer to the aim center

This sounds like an actual buff. But still.. after 9.6 it was clear that the accuracy went to total hell. I do not believe that tanks prior to 8.6 were more inaccurate then they are now. I see too many shells getting very close to aiming circle edges.

Just look at that picture with the dots in the circles in the movie, you can clearly see that the effective accuracy we had, got cut in half, by WG's utmost incompetend personel, the very same people who thought it would be a good idea to give tank X, 0.22 on-the-move despersion and give tank Y 0.11 on-the-move dispersion and hide these figures in the game itself.

Still vague though that WG buffs acc in 8.6 to nerf it to complete and utter crap in 9.6. It is like letting you lick an icecream and than pull it out of your hands as soon as you are halfway.

I remember that.... you could not possibly miss a well aimed on the move shot with the big turreted M24 chaffee, that on-the-move accuracy was unmatched by no other tank.

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1 hour ago, bask185 said:

That thing with the standard shell deviation was in place before 9.6, I know because I actually read the wiki long before 9.6.

In 9.6 patch notes:
Changed the distribution of hits at the aiming circle (reduced the number of hits at the very center of the reticle
I really noticed the effect of that stupid 9.6 patch, shots were flying everywhere, I actually swapped out my FCM's toolbox for a frkn gun laying drive because I suddenly missed every god damned snapshot I took..

in 8.6 notes I found 

  • Changed the mechanism of shot accuracy calculation. Now amount of shells falling on side of the aiming circle will decrease by 20%. Shells will fly more accurately and closer to the aim center

This sounds like an actual buff. But still.. after 9.6 it was clear that the accuracy went to total hell. I do not believe that tanks prior to 8.6 were more inaccurate then they are now. I see too many shells getting very close to aiming circle edges.

Just look at that picture with the dots in the circles in the movie, you can clearly see that the effective accuracy we had, got cut in half, by WG's utmost incompetend personel, the very same people who thought it would be a good idea to give tank X, 0.22 on-the-move despersion and give tank Y 0.11 on-the-move dispersion and hide these figures in the game itself.

Still vague though that WG buffs acc in 8.6 to nerf it to complete and utter crap in 9.6. It is like letting you lick an icecream and than pull it out of your hands as soon as you are halfway.

I remember that.... you could not possibly miss a well aimed on the move shot with the big turreted M24 chaffee, that on-the-move accuracy was unmatched by no other tank.

Accuracy post 9.6 is still better than it was pre 8.6.

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6 hours ago, StormCrowReaperManyHats said:

Accuracy post 9.6 is still better than it was pre 8.6.

Hehe, I joined straight at 8.6 :doge2:

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I'm about 2/3rds of the way through the grind for the IS, but have not bothered to unlock the 100mm instead going straight for the top 122 and then for the IS-3. No regrets. Probably helped that I have the Berlin IS-2, which is pretty much exactly the same tank to get used the playstyle. I don't find the 122 to have much in terms of drawback to be completely honest given the overall package of the tank. The alpha hit makes the tank a threat even when bottom tier. The DPM is a little tricky if you get swarmed by lots of mediums or caught very exposed but overall not a problem. Yes, it's Russian accuracy, so sometimes you nail amazing snap-shots and other times fully-aimed sprays all over the shop, but generally close-in brawling the accuracy is not a major issue. Not had major issues with the penetration given the mobility of the tank and a decent(ish) gold round.

I really liked the 100mm on the KV-85, I think that combination is amazing a tier lower, but for me you need that alpha punch allows you to stay relevant when bottom tier and absolutely crush when top tier. Having the alpha to either 2-shot low-tier tanks or finish off low-health tanks late-game can be a major life-saver given the unreliable armour.

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