robosapieo

Is WoT a good game(objectively speaking)?

41 posts in this topic

game sucks, it makes you rage, is a pita to grind, and you can't even use shared gaming interest to make friends cus everyone plays hearthstone instead.

:doge: 

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TBH the biggest problem WoT has is the over reliance of RNG affected components. Having a dispersion sigma to simulate intangibles, that is fine. However when you bundle that with differing sigma values for different tanks, RNG based damage, and penetration rolls it becomes an issue that affects its credibility as a game that can be respected from a competitive standpoint.

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1 minute ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

TBH the biggest problem WoT has is the over reliance of RNG affected components. Having a dispersion sigma to simulate intangibles, that is fine. However when you bundle that with differing sigma values for different tanks, RNG based damage, and penetration rolls it becomes an issue that affects its credibility as a game that can be respected from a competitive standpoint.

WG should just stop trying to make this an eSports game imo.It's supposed to be a fun game that players of all skill levels can enjoy(this does,however,lead to quite a bit of frustration sometimes for the good players).While I do agree that RNG on penetration is absolutely retarded,I think the 25% RNG on damage is fine.

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1 minute ago, robosapieo said:

WG should just stop trying to make this an eSports game imo.It's supposed to be a fun game that players of all skill levels can enjoy(this does,however,lead to quite a bit of frustration sometimes for the good players).While I do agree that RNG on penetration is absolutely retarded,I think the 25% RNG on damage is fine.

 

There is where we disagree if I see a tank that is not facing me, and I make a smart decision to shoot it when it is in my one shot range, and I low roll and he turns and kills me. How exactly does that contribute a fundamental rule of good games which is rewarding intelligent play? 

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Just now, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

There is where we disagree if I see a tank that is not facing me, and I make a smart decision to shoot it when it is in my one shot range, and I low roll and he turns and kills me. How exactly does that contribute a fundamental rule of good games which is rewarding intelligent play? 

I see where you're coming from,but picture this: You're in an obj.140 and there is an E50-M on the enemy team.He is on exactly 320 HP and you're on 450.You're both the last tanks alive.He is a way worse player than you.You two come face to face and shoot each other at the exact same time.You low roll and fail to kill him,while he gets an average roll but also kills your loader,which means he is able to reload before you and kill you.You're probably cursing him,his family and everyone who works at WG whereas he has probably jumped up from joy and excitement after winning a game that he thought was lost.The guy will probably then go on to spend more money on the game buying tanks,consumables etc. which benefits him(he can have fun when he gets lucky every once in a while) and it also benefits WG(they get money).At the same time,you also spend more money buying premium consumables that reduce the chance of your crew getting knocked out,which,again benefits WG.Then,a few thousand games later,you're in a similar situation.You're in a TVP and are the last tank alive on your team.You only have two rounds left and there are two enemies,both on 340 HP.You end up high rolling,kill both of them and win the game.The frustration you previously experienced in the 140 has now been made up for,and now you go on to spend even more money on the game.You had fun in the TVP,the other guy had fun in the E50M and WG got richer.In this case,everyone wins.

Now imagine if there wasn't any RNG.Going back to the 140 game as an example.The outcome is pretty much guaranteed in your favour.You're a good player,the other guy isn't.You get the benefit of having fun in the game while kicking the asses of others and spend money on the game.BUT,the other guy who isn't so good at the game will just leave if he's constantly getting rekt and WG will lose out on a potential customer.In this case,only you win.

 

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I love the concept of the game but man, the mechanics are a serious problem. 

Pros:
1. Tactics-focused battle gameplay: use brain - reflexes aren't everything. Knowledge of weakspots, maps, usage of terrain, understanding tank strengths/weaknesses, decision-making, reading team compositions, etc.
2. That thrill when you win games by completely outskilling the enemy plebs.

Cons:
1. Significance/impact of RNG - pen, damage, russian RNG
2. Spotting mechanics
3. Arty
4. Pub/pleb-oriented meta, some/many shitty maps
5. It's a fucking business model, not a fucking 'game'. You thought WG does this shit so we can have a great game? Nope, they do whatever it takes to maximise their fucking profits. That's all. Also why the E25 is back in the online shop.

I've spent almost a thousand SGD on the game so far, but I'm done with it as far as paying is concerned. WG doesn't need my money - they've got the money of everyone else.

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All the remarks about:

  • RNG
  • +2 mm
  • WG catering to idiots

Make one big mistake: The wot playerbase is awefull bad.

RNG and beiing top tier are good, since when top tier with lucky RNG, they can pwn, 1 good game easy compensates 9 crap games for joe average.

RNG is also good for unicums, since it makes encounters random having 380 HP against an IS3 is now NOT a certain dead, without RNG it would be, same for accuracy RNG and penetration, while getting trolled by a low pen roll is annoying, when you drive a KT, seeing an E5 bounce AP from the UFP is also nice, people always complain about all those ``certain wins if it wasnt for RNG``, but you also remember the same amount of RNG wins you got? its 50/50, you win some you loose some, in the long end, it doesnt matter...

Same for +2 mm, it adds a lot of variaty, wot is entertainment, not work, every single game beiing the same, would get dull very fast, due to RNG / maps / +2mm games are almost never the same, only on tier 10, when every game top tier AND lots of arty AND either tons of tds or autoloaders, the game is crapy, and guess what all the complainers and quitters play? YES, tier 10!

Go look up any super unicum with a ton of games, and you will see they dont get 20k games in tier 10, but instead play a lot of different things

with +2mm you can be either top tier or bottom tier, or anything in between, and due to the tier spread, you will also face a wide variaty of different tanks (i also never inderstood the complaining about ``too much tanks``, more tanks = better, always!! even if most new tanks are clones or mash ups, more = always better

to go back to the topic:

YES wot is a very good game, hence so many people play it and WG earns so much money, the core mechanics and gameplay:

  • load game, and press battle, and games dont last long / ages, quick games (*cough* gta 5 *cough*
  • 10 tiers, each tier better as the previous, meaning there is reason to go further, yet tier 10 is not autowin, ``the journey is more important as the goal``
  • good and clear UI and garage interface, most new games are fucking AWEFULL in this regard one way or another, even basic things are sometimes plain retarded (like making a print screen in GTA V (or is this now fixed), also no need to spyware like origin or that ubisoft shit thing
  • base gameplay is simple and logical:
    • front armor is stronger as side armor
    • bush = more camo (you know, like in the real world)
    • wasd for driving, move mouse for shooting looking around

Unlike almost any other multiplayer game released the past 5 year, WG got the basic things simply right, the game is easy to get into and get started, but the gameplay is still complex (at high skill level), however this complexity does not hamper the noobs, you dont need to study hours on a forum, or farm a bazilion items before you can play, you can fail yourself to a tier 10, and still ``pwn`` (once every 20 games)

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I'm not good at WoT as I keep getting annoyed at it and go play other things but now my main PC is dead and I'm left with a laptop and console so I'll add what I think. It's has the core of a good game but overall is not a good game due it being filled with lots of little flaws, like if you had delicious meats for a sandwich but the bread was covered in months of mould.

Spotting sucks imo-not so much with regards to mediums and lights but gunlines of TDs that 2shot you or searching for the last arty when low hp and he blows you away because he was behind a bush and you're in a heavy.

RNG- It's okay for aiming but I think it's a bit much with damage and penetration.

Arty- Get rid of it, it's horrible shit that just let's cancerous losers feel good about themselves for pwning you on the 5th try for all your hp and modules.

+2 MM- Reduce it +1, I can fight a tier 10 in a typical tier 9 relatively evenly, I can't do that in a typical tier 8 so the only way to win that then requires you to be a unicum vs someone significantly less skilled.

Edited by RGM79GM

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@GehakteMolen - Everything you listed there as a positive is a serious negative for anyone who cares about PvP. WoT goes from Player versus Player to Player vs RNG, which is absolutely terrible for anyone who wants to be good at anything or test their skill level. You'd realise this if you've ever played a proper PvP game at a decent level yourself, whether you're a competitive person or not. Your example of somone being dead 100% of the time is also ridiculous because that's the entire point of having skill to begin with - That you can outplay someone when you don't have the advantage.

You're basically arguing that it's amazing that luck saves you over and over and that it's great how you missed/bounced/low rolled because the opponent got lucky. Then you argue that if you have low HP, you can't exploit armor, mobility, weakspots, reload advantage, spotting advantage, map positions, general pubbie stupidity or anything. And you use GTA V as a comparison to a game that wants to be taken seriously as an e-sport? :kjugh:

Almost all e-sports games have short rounds as a basis to end it quickly, WoT is nowhere near the short end of this. All popular e-sports games have very basic mechanics as well, some you learn instantly unlike WoT (how far have the pubbies come with that spotting mechanic in the last 6½ years?). For most games it's point and click, headshots doing more damage and arms/legs less damage just like real life in general. Rocket League/other sports games are "put the ball into the opponent's goal more times than it goes into yours". MOBAs are "destroy the objects along the linear path, then kill the thing in their base". RTS games are "output more destructive power than the other guy within X time and Y resources".

More importantly, WoT has something most other PvP games do not - Serious advantages for long time players. No matter how good you are, it's going to take you a damn long time to get a high level crew (which is a another bullshit mechanic from a PvP standpoint) and the more games you spam, the more credits you have for equipment (another bullshit mechanic), premium consumables (fucking seriously?), prem shells (my fucking sides) and so on.

WoT is currently a bad PvP game, there is literally no argument against this because PvP games - and especially e-sports versions - are about providing the most fair conditions for both teams in terms of weapons, equipment options and map design. As a game in general, WoT is okay but not that special since they refuse to let their specialty shine: The armor mechanics. And it's not like WG doesn't know it either, as they have overhauled maps, physics, tank lines and so on many times. The main problem is that they're afraid to touch the real money maker - Prem shells. Those are the reason people buy premium accounts and premium tanks. To reduce the unbearable grind that allows you to fight against things your tank either shouldn't be up against at all with the current weapon balance or to crush the few things that can already withstand your 230+ pen AP rounds at high tiers. Because, you know, fuck tactics and flanking when I can just press 2-2 and make that 230 into 330+ and hit any non-round surface. EZ PZ :surprisefish:

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21 minutes ago, Zinn said:

@GehakteMolen - Everything you listed there as a positive is a serious negative for anyone who cares about PvP. WoT goes from Player versus Player to Player vs RNG, which is absolutely terrible for anyone who wants to be good at anything or test their skill level. You'd realise this if you've ever played a proper PvP game at a decent level yourself, whether you're a competitive person or not. Your example of somone being dead 100% of the time is also ridiculous because that's the entire point of having skill to begin with - That you can outplay someone when you don't have the advantage.

You're basically arguing that it's amazing that luck saves you over and over and that it's great how you missed/bounced/low rolled because the opponent got lucky. Then you argue that if you have low HP, you can't exploit armor, mobility, weakspots, reload advantage, spotting advantage, map positions, general pubbie stupidity or anything. And you use GTA V as a comparison to a game that wants to be taken seriously as an e-sport? :kjugh:

Almost all e-sports games have short rounds as a basis to end it quickly, WoT is nowhere near the short end of this. All popular e-sports games have very basic mechanics as well, some you learn instantly unlike WoT (how far have the pubbies come with that spotting mechanic in the last 6½ years?). For most games it's point and click, headshots doing more damage and arms/legs less damage just like real life in general. Rocket League/other sports games are "put the ball into the opponent's goal more times than it goes into yours". MOBAs are "destroy the objects along the linear path, then kill the thing in their base". RTS games are "output more destructive power than the other guy within X time and Y resources".

More importantly, WoT has something most other PvP games do not - Serious advantages for long time players. No matter how good you are, it's going to take you a damn long time to get a high level crew (which is a another bullshit mechanic from a PvP standpoint) and the more games you spam, the more credits you have for equipment (another bullshit mechanic), premium consumables (fucking seriously?), prem shells (my fucking sides) and so on.

WoT is currently a bad PvP game, there is literally no argument against this because PvP games - and especially e-sports versions - are about providing the most fair conditions for both teams in terms of weapons, equipment options and map design. As a game in general, WoT is okay but not that special since they refuse to let their specialty shine: The armor mechanics. And it's not like WG doesn't know it either, as they have overhauled maps, physics, tank lines and so on many times. The main problem is that they're afraid to touch the real money maker - Prem shells. Those are the reason people buy premium accounts and premium tanks. To reduce the unbearable grind that allows you to fight against things your tank either shouldn't be up against at all with the current weapon balance or to crush the few things that can already withstand your 230+ pen AP rounds at high tiers. Because, you know, fuck tactics and flanking when I can just press 2-2 and make that 230 into 330+ and hit any non-round surface. EZ PZ :surprisefish:

Some of your logic is flawed...  RTS' would be the only games that give a neutral playing field (e.g Star Craft), as to my knowledge, none of the ones with a competitive PvP/e-Sports scene allow for unlocked progression aside from what happens within a match.  Everyone starts with the same start, and it is up to your build order and macro/micro to make the differences.

MOBA's (which WoT is more rightly classed as) are still progression based games.  You can either spend to unlock everything, or you can grind the hard way.  LoL, for example, probably the MOST dominant MOBA on the market.  Everyone starts out with the same few group of heroes.  You can unlock more by spending currency earned, or by paying cash for them.  You also can unlock passive buffs, allowing you to further specialize or emphasize the role of the hero you're playing.  Veteran players have an advantage over new players in that regard.  Nor is the gameplay of MOBA's as simplistic as you describe... because if so, most players would be savants at the gameplay.  I don't know if you've been to other MOBA's forums, but they are (amazingly) more toxic than even WoT/WoTLabs, and denigrating of both the skill-less noobs and haxor try-hards.

FPS's also allow for progression mechanics - more games played equal to more class/weapon/ability/etc unlocks.  And, if FPS' were "like real life in general", then weapons would be even more inaccurate, and damage would vary even more wildly than in WoT...  This is from personal experience in both saving and taking lives in the real world.  Weapons do NOT do the same thing to people, even when they are shot/stabbed/hit/etc in the same area.

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39 minutes ago, Zinn said:

@GehakteMolen - Everything you listed there as a positive is a serious negative for anyone who cares about PvP. WoT goes from Player versus Player to Player vs RNG, which is absolutely terrible for anyone who wants to be good at anything or test their skill level. You'd realise this if you've ever played a proper PvP game at a decent level yourself, whether you're a competitive person or not. Your example of somone being dead 100% of the time is also ridiculous because that's the entire point of having skill to begin with - That you can outplay someone when you don't have the advantage.

You're basically arguing that it's amazing that luck saves you over and over and that it's great how you missed/bounced/low rolled because the opponent got lucky. Then you argue that if you have low HP, you can't exploit armor, mobility, weakspots, reload advantage, spotting advantage, map positions, general pubbie stupidity or anything. And you use GTA V as a comparison to a game that wants to be taken seriously as an e-sport? :kjugh:

Almost all e-sports games have short rounds as a basis to end it quickly, WoT is nowhere near the short end of this. All popular e-sports games have very basic mechanics as well, some you learn instantly unlike WoT (how far have the pubbies come with that spotting mechanic in the last 6½ years?). For most games it's point and click, headshots doing more damage and arms/legs less damage just like real life in general. Rocket League/other sports games are "put the ball into the opponent's goal more times than it goes into yours". MOBAs are "destroy the objects along the linear path, then kill the thing in their base". RTS games are "output more destructive power than the other guy within X time and Y resources".

More importantly, WoT has something most other PvP games do not - Serious advantages for long time players. No matter how good you are, it's going to take you a damn long time to get a high level crew (which is a another bullshit mechanic from a PvP standpoint) and the more games you spam, the more credits you have for equipment (another bullshit mechanic), premium consumables (fucking seriously?), prem shells (my fucking sides) and so on.

WoT is currently a bad PvP game, there is literally no argument against this because PvP games - and especially e-sports versions - are about providing the most fair conditions for both teams in terms of weapons, equipment options and map design. As a game in general, WoT is okay but not that special since they refuse to let their specialty shine: The armor mechanics. And it's not like WG doesn't know it either, as they have overhauled maps, physics, tank lines and so on many times. The main problem is that they're afraid to touch the real money maker - Prem shells. Those are the reason people buy premium accounts and premium tanks. To reduce the unbearable grind that allows you to fight against things your tank either shouldn't be up against at all with the current weapon balance or to crush the few things that can already withstand your 230+ pen AP rounds at high tiers. Because, you know, fuck tactics and flanking when I can just press 2-2 and make that 230 into 330+ and hit any non-round surface. EZ PZ :surprisefish:

But wot is no e-sport game, it never will, and it also never should be....

Wot is 1vs29, pick a tank, press battle and shoot the red tanks, thats it....

And NO most games are not ``fast``, most games are slow as fuck, name me any other game where you can be playing within 5 sec, GTA V its easy 15 mins before you can actually play, in wot? when your on the same server: create platoons, invite (still bugged, its WG ofc) and press battle, 30 sec and your rolling, no set up, no waiting, if the game crashes, its 30 sec and your back in, even in the game itself, and when your dead, you can join another game straight away.

And im dead serious with RNG, RNG benefits a good player as much as it helps noobs, my ISU troll bouncing an IS6, to hit him for 700 head on and killing him? thats 100% RNG, me having 330 hp, but not dieing from the enemy IS3, because hurr durr RNG low dmg roll, and in return i put 2 shells in him (because faster reload) and killing him that way?

RNG is 50/50, sometimes you get fucked, sometimes you outluck the other, its what keeps (and makes) the game interesting

Gold ammo is obviously something trully stupid, but my opinion on those is known :)

And most important: Wot is a game, where tanks fight tanks (without it turning into a shitty simulator)

Thats all, tank = awesome, as long as there wont be another good tank game, wot will never die...

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1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

But wot is no e-sport game, it never will, and it also never should be....

Wot is 1vs29, pick a tank, press battle and shoot the red tanks, thats it....

And NO most games are not ``fast``, most games are slow as fuck, name me any other game where you can be playing within 5 sec, GTA V its easy 15 mins before you can actually play, in wot? when your on the same server: create platoons, invite (still bugged, its WG ofc) and press battle, 30 sec and your rolling, no set up, no waiting, if the game crashes, its 30 sec and your back in, even in the game itself, and when your dead, you can join another game straight away.

And im dead serious with RNG, RNG benefits a good player as much as it helps noobs, my ISU troll bouncing an IS6, to hit him for 700 head on and killing him? thats 100% RNG, me having 330 hp, but not dieing from the enemy IS3, because hurr durr RNG low dmg roll, and in return i put 2 shells in him (because faster reload) and killing him that way?

RNG is 50/50, sometimes you get fucked, sometimes you outluck the other, its what keeps (and makes) the game interesting

Gold ammo is obviously something trully stupid, but my opinion on those is known :)

And most important: Wot is a game, where tanks fight tanks (without it turning into a shitty simulator)

Thats all, tank = awesome, as long as there wont be another good tank game, wot will never die...

At prime time for Titanfall 2(PS4) I get into the action(ie, score kills) in like 30 seconds once a match is formed, it's slowed down by the dropship intro. Destiny crucible is also pretty quick to get to the killing. Both those games also have something that WoT sorely lacks if it wants to a "good pvp game" which is respawns, some games do well without respawns but imo these days it's better to have them than be without as it helps avoid steamrollers.

I disagree that RNG benefits a good players as much as noobs, I think if RNG were heavily reduced or removed completely at a certain skill level you'd see players score higher WN8 totals and WR %s than they did beforehand because they simply make less mistakes that RNG could save them from, whereas "noobs" make plenty of mistakes that RNG could save them from them, thus RNG serves mostly as a detriment to the Unicum but a boon to the average WoT player.

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I tend to agree with others about the foundation being there but what's above it being where the game fails. RNG, inter-tier balance and map design need work. I'd add that the economic system is cancerous with the constant grind which hampers enjoyment more than enhancing the player experience. Whether you're grinding for another tank, more credits to buy a tank or credits for equipment. It's presence is enhanced by the lack of a range mode where you can drive and shoot, or play any tank in the game vs. bots to see how they handle and determine if it's something you're actually interested in obtaining.

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WoT is an okay game.

It's not terrible but I don't think it's that great.

A lot of people confuse an addictive game with a great game. They're not the same thing.

WoT is more addictive than good.

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WoT is a truely GREAT game ... IF you can handle it!

What some of our SuperUncorns here don't get is that WoT is not made for them but instead it is made for Joe Average.

However it throws these Unicorns together with Joe Averages and even Terry Terrible but at a price! The price is RNG, simplistic maps and 12-14 teammates that may be in the range of awesome to terrible.

The only other thing that I myself find terrible is the tiering system and the tier balance (even more than tank balance or arty). What this means is that in order to incite you to climg up the tech trees higher tier tanks get progressively more powerful over their lower tier competitiors. That means that tier VII over tier V is not such a huge advantage than tier IX over tier VII. After almost 20k games I find myself sitting in the same three or four tier IX and X tanks because I can't stand how shitty everything else seems to be. And thats boring.

WoWS handles that WAY better (even with +-2 MM) as the ships are way closer together power wise.

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