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Is WoT a good game(objectively speaking)?

41 posts in this topic

I'm pretty sure there have been threads like this made in the past,but I thought I'd make another one after all the bullshit moves that WG has pulled off recently (making prem tanks stronger than their fully upgraded normal counterparts,making the E25 available again,etc.).

inb4 "It must be a good game since so many people play it".A lot of people also play COD but that doesn't make it good.

So,what I'd like to know from you guys in this thread is what you like most about WoT,what you hate most and, if you were in-charge,what would you change about the game.Also,what changes would you make to your business model in order to make enough money for yourself while also keeping the players happy (something WG clearly isn't doing right now)? Would love to see what you guys can think of.Let's have some fun with this.

I myself have only played 5k battles,so I don't know the ins and outs of the game as well as most of you guys do,but given below are the things that I would change (I had this discussion with my friend.He suggested the first one)

  1. Make prem shells do less damage,but offer a greater penetration advantage than they do currently.I know they're currently testing this on the sandbox,but it should have been implemented WAAAAAAAY sooner.
  2. Reduce the disparity between the different tiered tanks.If the tier 10 tanks are going to have greater alpha damage than the T8s while also being able to reload faster,the T8 tanks should atleast have decent gun handling.As it is right now,the medium tank with the best gun handling at tier 8 (pershing) has almost the same dispersion values as the medium tank with the worst gun handling at T10 (STB-1).
  3. Make the tier 4 grind faster,while making the T5 and 6 grinds slower.I think we can all agree that tier 4 is the most cancerous stage of the game,while tiers 5 and 6 are quite fun.I'd make the players spend less time in the shit tiers,and make them spend more time in the good tiers,therefore getting them more engaged in the game,which in turn will make them spend more money,which in turn would make me rich.

Please feel free to go crazy with your own suggestions.I love fantasizing about this stuff.

TL;DR: Do you think WoT is shit? If it is shit,then what would you change about it,to make it "not shit"?

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The core gameplay of wot is great, its amazing, I love it. I'm talking mostly about the armor/gunplay/movement mechanics largely related to brawls. The problem is there are landfills of shit piled up on top of that.

My answer is yes, wot is shit because the devs couldn't be more clueless about their own game even after 5+ years of working on it.

+2 and +3 matchmaking has 0 place in this game

Gold rounds are a stupidly fucking easy fix but haven't been touched (lower damage, more pen with regular ammo cost is my take)

arty, duh. It has no place in pub games. It has some value in competitive for digging out turtles but those turtles can only happen because wargaming has no idea how maps work (mountain pass exists)

the 183 even exists. That and the 4005. The fact that it was allowed to be put into the game shows off how little the developers understand the game even still. At the very least, remove hesh rounds from them.

105/122 derp guns on tier 5 tanks. Literally all they do is drive away new players by forcing them to fight tanks that not only 1 shot them but cannot be penned by their tier 3 and 4 tanks. There is nothing positive about the influence of those guns, removing them would be no loss at all.

There is no real tutorial for this game. With how much wargaming makes off the game and how invested they seem to be with getting new players, its horribly disappointing that most of their players have no idea how to play the game and never will because you have to search it up online to figure out what is going on. Hell, even the majority of their employees don't have a clue what the hell is going on in game with how bad it is.

the panzer2j still gets sold. There is no excuse at all. Its understandable they didn't want to take it away from people who got it long ago but the fact that its been sold recently just is not ok. The tank is the golden shining example of pay to win even while they are attempting to market this game as an e sport. Its laughable.

Pretty sure that's it for the rant. Probably a few things that others wont agree with but I feel its mostly on point.

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It's good in the same way heroin is, you crave the high of the good games, but you just get dissapointed when you play and feel ashamed of yourself when you log off.

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The game has a great core gameplay, but the things it does wrong just ruins the game for any competent player 

Those are :

- Arty, really wg ? is this class even needed, all it does is make more players leave then stay.

- What happened to good old maps like dragon ridge, Oh your russian potato computers can't handle it... 

- What happened to the HAVOK engine you guys where hyping so much about.

Honestly I don't have a huge problem with gold, even though I don't use it much, but I can see why it could be nerfed.

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1 minute ago, yoyoya2 said:

- Arty, really wg ? is this class even needed, all it does is make more players leave then stay.

- What happened to good old maps like dragon ridge, Oh your russian potato computers can't handle it... 

- What happened to the HAVOK engine you guys where hyping so much about.

The vast majority of players play arty. Like it or not, balanced or not, it's only a problem to a vocal minority. You're forgetting that even the official forums are inhabited by a minority of players (the vast majority never venture outside the game client at all), and wotlabs is the tiny subset of those players who are interested in stats.

Dragon Ridge was pulled due to gameplay concerns - very little of the map area was actually usable due to the massive elevation changes, and only fast tanks could do anything more than just brawl in the same 2 squares. Literally nothing to do with potato computers.

Havok was pulled due to potato computers, IIRC.

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2 minutes ago, woe2you said:

The vast majority of players play arty. Like it or not, balanced or not, it's only a problem to a vocal minority. You're forgetting that even the official forums are inhabited by a minority of players (the vast majority never venture outside the game client at all), and wotlabs is the tiny subset of those players who are interested in stats.

Dragon Ridge was pulled due to gameplay concerns - very little of the map area was actually usable due to the massive elevation changes, and only fast tanks could do anything more than just brawl in the same 2 squares. Literally nothing to do with potato computers.

Havok was pulled due to potato computers, IIRC.

But when you have 95% of top players not liking something Maybe you should lisen to them. Also most potatos wouldn't have a problem with removing arty they just don't actively try to get it removed.

Dragon ridge was actually mostly removed for the graphical glitches it had, and the bad performance in the areas with smoke. WG doesn't really give a shit about gameplay, look at all the new maps.

 

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13 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

But when you have 95% of top players not liking something Maybe you should lisen to them.

You're making two fundamental errors there: conflating skill at gameplay with ability in game design (there are some overlaps but the two are not even close to being the same thing) and wanting to make wide-ranging game changes specifically to cater to a statistically insignificant minority.

13 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

WG doesn't really give a shit about gameplay, look at all the new maps.

You say completely pants-on-head retarded things like that with one breath then demand WG should listen to you in the next? Of course they care about gameplay, the quality of their product is what drives their sales. If they didn't care every server would be like CN.

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1 hour ago, zapyoug said:

The core gameplay of wot is great, its amazing, I love it. I'm talking mostly about the armor/gunplay/movement mechanics largely related to brawls. The problem is there are landfills of shit piled up on top of that.

My answer is yes, wot is shit because the devs couldn't be more clueless about their own game even after 5+ years of working on it.

+2 and +3 matchmaking has 0 place in this game

Gold rounds are a stupidly fucking easy fix but haven't been touched (lower damage, more pen with regular ammo cost is my take)

arty, duh. It has no place in pub games. It has some value in competitive for digging out turtles but those turtles can only happen because wargaming has no idea how maps work (mountain pass exists)

the 183 even exists. That and the 4005. The fact that it was allowed to be put into the game shows off how little the developers understand the game even still. At the very least, remove hesh rounds from them.

105/122 derp guns on tier 5 tanks. Literally all they do is drive away new players by forcing them to fight tanks that not only 1 shot them but cannot be penned by their tier 3 and 4 tanks. There is nothing positive about the influence of those guns, removing them would be no loss at all.

There is no real tutorial for this game. With how much wargaming makes off the game and how invested they seem to be with getting new players, its horribly disappointing that most of their players have no idea how to play the game and never will because you have to search it up online to figure out what is going on. Hell, even the majority of their employees don't have a clue what the hell is going on in game with how bad it is.

the panzer2j still gets sold. There is no excuse at all. Its understandable they didn't want to take it away from people who got it long ago but the fact that its been sold recently just is not ok. The tank is the golden shining example of pay to win even while they are attempting to market this game as an e sport. Its laughable.

Pretty sure that's it for the rant. Probably a few things that others wont agree with but I feel its mostly on point.

WG understands their game thoroughly.  They want you to think they don't understand their game.

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Just now, woe2you said:

You're making two fundamental errors there: conflating skill at gameplay with ability in game design (there are some overlaps but the two are not even close to being the same thing) and wanting to make wide-ranging game changes specifically to cater to a statistically insignificant minority.

You say completely pants-on-head retarded things like that with one breath then demand WG should listen to you in the next? Of course they care about gameplay, the quality of their product is what drives their sales.

The reason you have bad players is because they don't understand core gameplay so how do you think they know what is good or bad for the game(They don't), I'm sorry but I'd rather listen to the minority that actually understands gameplay as the changes actually affect them. You also have to remember that the average player is much much worst than you think. 

What drives their sales is the stupidity of the customer, The thrive on those who will spend a few hundred dollars on their game ( I know because I was one of them)

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3 minutes ago, Valachio said:

WG understands their game thoroughly.  They want you to think they don't understand their game.

ah yes comrade

all is working as intended :bigdoge:

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13 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

The reason you have bad players is because they don't understand core gameplay so how do you think they know what is good or bad for the game(They don't),

You're conflating what's good or bad for you and players like you with what's good or bad for the game.

13 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

I'm sorry but I'd rather listen to the minority that actually understands gameplay as the changes actually affect them.

There's that self-absorption again. Changes like removing arty affect everyone who plays the game. I'm not saying the average player is a gameplay expert we should consult, I'm saying they're happy to play games with arty, they're happy to play games using arty and you're proposing taking one fifth of the classes they play away from them.

26 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

You also have to remember that the average player is much much worst than you think.

I know exactly how bad the average player is. I even care about their experience of the game, whereas it's clear from your responses in this thread that you think they can get gud or fuck off.

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2 minutes ago, woe2you said:

I even care about their experience of the game, whereas it's clear from your responses in this thread that you think they can get gud or fuck off.

I don't give a shit about how many battles you've played, if you are bad then you clearly haven't grasped the core gameplay. And yes I don't give a shit what bad players think unless you want to learn to get better, shitters can fuck off with what they think is best for the game.

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53 minutes ago, woe2you said:

There's that self-absorption again. Changes like removing arty affect everyone who plays the game. I'm not saying the average player is a gameplay expert we should consult, I'm saying they're happy to play games with arty, they're happy to play games using arty and you're proposing taking one fifth of the classes they play away from them.

Arty has no place in a peer to peer game, it's a completely fucking retarded mechanic to have players that can shoot you without you even being able to spot them/retaliate. Couple that with the ability to one shot or cripple a tank of it's hp/modules on a dice roll. Best place for arty would be the fucking bin or at the very least a complete fucking rework to something that isn't game changing with a couple of shots based on a fucking dice roll ffs.

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WoT cannot simply be put as good/bad because nothing it does is outrageously wrong, it's just many small piles of shit turning into the Great Mighty Poo. There is a beautiful functional toilet below but it's currently clogged with opera-singing shit, is what I'm saying. The core gameplay with skill-based armor angling and such is fucking amazing and has the potential to be a unique and shining star among PvP games - However, WG decided that there needs to be RNG on penetration, RNG on accuracy, RNG on damage, RNG on modules, RNG on crew damage and a special type of shell that you just happen to be able to buy with gold or a hilarious amount of credits that completely ignore this very special mechanic upon which a great game could be built. Then they also thought that yes, there should be an almost entirely RNG-based class that can use its gigantic splash damage guns to RNG you for zero to full HP, zero to every crew and module fucked and so on while you can do nothing in return. Also, an RNG mechanic that sets fire to your tank and forces you to watch your entire game go down the drain because - of course - they also added permanent death to a PvP game.

Different tiers ain't even a problem IMO, as you can easily balance around it, just as they do with general classes of tanks. WG just sucks even harder at tier balance than class balance.

Cut the retarded RNG, retarded ammo and actually fucking balance your game: Then you could have some serious fun with great mechanics, even in the face of perma-death. Until then, WoT is a bad PvP game but not inherently terrible. It just isn't really worth the time and monetary investment compared to virtually anything else out there. I'm personally on the Rocket League wagon but imagine if you had put this many hours into DotA, LoL, CS, CoD or any other game with a big PvP scene and worthwhile tournaments. If you had done that - or started doing it now - instead of farming useless tomatoes and SH boxes, you'd be good enough to win weekly tournaments and give a good shot at the big ones. Yes, your 20k+ battles does translate into that kind of skill level in other games.

For me, it came down to a simple question: Why waste this much time on a game that doesn't change? 1 year later and I'm between top 2,5% - 1,1% in Rocket League. Gonna hit top 1,1% and better soon as well and I'm older and have less time to play then most of you on here :disco:

If only you could do this to tomatoes in WoT:

XfTXFRT.gif

nVM0XCI.gif

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Wot is, at its core, a good game. Its a really good game. It has an extremely unique style of play that is extremely addicting, and it makes me want to.keep coming back.

 

Of course, there are all the issues on top.

 

First, im going to say: arty is objectively bad for gameplay. Bad players may like arty, but from a pure gameplay point of view, artillery as it is currently implemented is nothng but a detriment to gameplay. It takes away from skill and ability, and it adds a large RNG variable that neither the target or even the arty player have very much control over. Something that takes more RNG than skill is bad for any game that wants to be an esport.

 

Second, gold rounds. Eh, im not too worried about gold tbh. It gives lower tier tanks a chance. It doesnt even come close to making armour irrelevant. But eh, it could do with a rework but I personally would pick other things to be reworked first.

 

MM, i actually dont really have many problems with MM either. The biggest thing I would change is balancing the classes out, so one team doesnt get 5 meds to 2, or 7 TDs to 3, etc. But they are apparently now fixing MM and I liked a lot of those changes. 

 

I would also limit RNG to 10%. 25% was back in the days when tier 6s fought tier 10s, it gave them a chance to get a high pen roll and damage that IS-7 with their piddly 76, we dont need that any more.

 

And I would pull a WoWS and limit tier 1-4 to +1MM, so tier 4s only see tier 5, tier 3 only sees tier 4, etc. That system is so much better than it is in WoT.

 

Next thing I would do is fix competitive modes. CW especially. I would first make tier 6/8 15v15. The game is designed for 15v15. 7v7 is stupid. Strongholds can stay 7v7, but not CW. Then I would make it more attractive to actually fight. I would lower/eliminate that stupid influence thing you need to schedule battles. And make actual fghting more inviting on the tier 10 map. 

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A lot of people are saying that arty should be removed but I don't think that would be a good idea.

I think the simple solution is to reduce the pen of their HE,remove HEAT and AP,reduce the splash damage they do with HE and increase the splash AOE of their HE.This way,the arty players won't get frustrated when they miss because they'll atleast do some damage and the people playing normal tanks also won't get frustrated because they're at no risk of getting one shotted or losing half their health from a splash.

The only arty that should absolutely, DEFINITELY be removed is the french T10 autoloader because getting permatracked by something you can't even shoot back at is about as fair as life itself(not at all).

Our lord and saviour Quickybaby actually made a great suggestion about how the matchmaker should place arty.He said that there should only be a max of 2 arty per team,but one in every five games has a chance of having NO arty,so the unpredictability of the game(one of it's greatest strengths imo) will still be there.

If arty was to be removed entirely,then some hull-down tanks would absolutely DOMIMATE on some maps.

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5 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

It's good in the same way heroin is, you crave the high of the good games, but you just get dissapointed when you play and feel ashamed of yourself when you log off.

This.

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2 minutes ago, Vindi said:

WOT is good only when you don't take it seriously. Sadly, this is the exact thinking of the artillery playerbase too.

ye when people install session stats mod/tryhard for stats/try to 3 mark a tank that's when shit hits the fan and okurwa intensifies

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9 hours ago, zapyoug said:

There is no real tutorial for this game.

This shit is just baffling to me. The tutorial is basically "hurr durr shooting tanks in the side is better" and nothing else. No real explanation of armour mechanics, nothing about vision except "bush do thing" iirc. How do they think it's a good idea to have all these mechanics without making any effort at explaining them to people? Sure people on these forums are spergs who will happily spend their time looking up info on the internet, but the fact is the vast majority of players won't do that and honestly shouldn't be expected to.

Then there's issues with increasingly dumbed down map design, arty, and the MM system which they refuse to change.

As others have said, the core gameplay is excellent. Too bad WG prefers to go "eh, good enough" instead of making their game into something truly great.

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