kunjuro

Tier X Light tanks

369 posts in this topic

On 3/6/2017 at 10:50 AM, Archaic_One said:

Right now nobody is playing mediums on SB, so these things have free reign over slow tanks and blind tanks.  They look really good doing it, let see how they look with 4-5 meds on the other team snap shotting them while they try to circle your E4.

With their absurdly good view range, and excellent camo, MTs aren't ever going to outspot the LTs. 

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The stats almost look good enough for me to want to play them. The real questions are: 

  • how will they compare with meds?
  • how shitty will they be in this map pool?
  • how long will I need to wait to find out? 

I haven't been playing tanks for a long time. I think it's been more than a year since I played a significant session of tanks like I used to. With this, the proposed MM changes, and some of the other potential changes that are on SB I might actually get interested in the game again. Edit: oh and if they actually implement the consumable changes (where they basically copy-paste from WoWS) I'll be way more interested in the game, since that helps to cancel out a huge amount of RNG. 

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T-100LT remains the only LT really worth playing in CW. It has workable armour, a good gun, and excellent top speed/camo/view range. The Chinese and German LTs will be fun in pubs, and I don't see the other LTs being that good, though I haven't played the Sheridan since it received the gun handling buffs.

@jacg: T-100 can bounce medium shells somewhat reliably. Not an outright brawler, but certainly decent. And the HP/t on all of the light tanks means that they have incredible flexibility, which should help them flank even in city maps. 

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Since there is no precisely detailed information about the Light Tank Changes, I have decided to create a list myself.

If there are any typos or mistakes then let me know.

 

Sandbox Server March 16 Updates to Tier X lights
Comparison between live and sandbox


USSR


Lttb Tier 7 -> Tier 8
- Gun performance is the same, except awful depression buffed from -3 to -5 (Thank God)
- Power to Weight Increased from 31 to 34 hp/ton.
- HP Increased from 950 to 1050.
-Turret and Hull Tranverse not changed at 48 deg/s for both.
-View Range remains unchanged at 390m.

 


T-54 Lightweight Tier 8 -> Tier 9
- Gun Rate of Fire increased from 8 to 8.82 Rounds per minute.
- Penetration of regular AP round increased from 175 mm to 208 mm penetration.
- Gun Accuracy nerfed from 0.38 to 0.42
- Power to Weight Increased from 23 to 33 hp/ton.
- HP Increased from 1250 to 1300
- View Range increased from 390 to 410m.

 


T-100 Light Tank Tier X
- Strong front hull armor for light 120/40/40mm
- Strong turret armor 180/40/40 mm
- Highest camo rating of all Tier X lights (can reach up to 40% when everything is maxed)
- 2nd to worst DPM of 2286 with 7.14 Rounds per minute.
- Lowest View range of 410 of all Tier X lights.
- 100mm gun with 320/320/420 damage with 230/248/50 mm penetration APCR/AP/HE(AP is Premium Ammo)
- Very bad accuracy of 0.44 and 2 sec aim time.
- Depression/Elevation -5/15
- 1500 HP
- 72/25 Top Speed
- 48 Hp/ton Power to Wieght
- 53/56 Turret/Hull Traverse Speed 

 


Germany


Hwk 12 Tier 8
- 90mm gun with 240/240/320 damage with 180/250/45 mm penetration AP/HEAT/HE
- 8.39 Rounds Per Minute
- 0.36 accuracy with 2 sec aim time.
- -10/15 Depression/Elevation.
- 36 hp/ton Power to Weight.
- 65/23 kmh top speed.
- 1100 HP.
- 14/14/14 mm hull armor.
- 15/10/10mm turret armor
- Turret and Hull Tranverse of 44 deg/s for both.
- 410m view range.

 


RU 251 Tier 8 -> Tier 9
- 90mm Gun Rate of Fire increased from 9.68 to 10 Rounds per minute.
- Penetration of regular AP round increased from 190 mm to 215 mm penetration.
- Power to Weight Increased from 25 to 35 hp/ton.
- Top speed lower from 80/24 to 70/24 kmh.
- HP Increased from 1200 to 1400
- View Range increased from 400 to 420m.

 


RHM Panzerwagen Tier X
- Highest View Range of 430m out of all the Tier X lights
- Middle in DPM of 2400 of all Tier X Lights with 6 Rounds per Minute.
- 105mm gun with 390/390/480 Damage with 242/280/53 mm penetration APCR/HEAT/HE
- 0.36 accuracy and 1.9 sec aim time
- -10/15 Depression/Elevation
- 1600 HP
- 30/30/8 mm Hull Armor
- 20/20/20 mm Turret Armor
- 2nd to lowest Camo of all Tier X lights
- 75/25 Top Speed
- 44 Hp/ton Power to Weight
- 44/54 deg/sec of Turret/Hull Traverse Speed. 

 


USA


M41 Walker Bulldog Tier 7 -> Tier 8
- Can now fit Medium Tank Gun Rammer
- 76mm T91E5 Autoloader exactly the same as Live.
- 76mm M32 Late Damage increased from 150/150/185 to 170/170/260 damage.
- 76mm M32 Late Rate of fire increased from 13.95 to 14. 
- Power to Weight Increased from 24 to 34 hp/ton.
- Top speed lowered from 72/24 to 68/24 kmh
- HP Increased from 910 to 1000.
-Turret and Hull Tranverse not changed at 48 deg/s for both.
-View Range remains unchanged at 400m.

 


T49 Tier 8 -> Tier 9
- Replaces regular high pen HE with AP round with 240 damage and 212 mm penetration. 
- 90mm Gun Rate of Fire increased from 9.52 to 10.6 Rounds per minute.
- 90mm Gun Accuracy nerfed from 0.38 to 0.4.
- 152mm remains unchanged.
- Power to Weight Increased from 24 to 37 hp/ton.
- Top speed lower from 72/24 to 65/24 kmh
- HP Increased from 1100 to 1400
- View Range increased from 400 to 420m.

 


Sheridan Tier X
- Highest DPM at 2543 with 105mm gun with 6.52 Rounds Per Minute. 
- 390/390/480 Damage with 236/280/53 mm penetration APCR/HEAT/HE
- 0.4 accuracy and 1.7 sec aim time.
- -10/20 Depression/Elevation
- 152mm virtually identical to T49 except better dispersion soft stats.
- 1600 HP
- 14/31/12 mm Hull Armor
- 38/15/15 mm Turret Armor
- Lowest camo rating of all Tier X lights with large size.
- Highest View range of 430 of all Tier X lights
- 65/22 Top Speed
- 41 Hp/ton Power to Wieght
- 43/55 Turret/Hull Traverse Speed 

 

 

France


Bat Chatillion 12t Tier 8
- Can Fit Vertical Stabilizer(French Lights cannot fit a Vert Stab in Current Live Server)
- 75mm autoloader with 170/170/260 damage with 170/210/38 mm penetration AP/APCR/HE
- 4 shot magazine with 2 seconds between shots and 20 second reload time.
- 0.38 accuracy with 2.3sec aim time.
- -6/13 Depression/Elevation.
- 33 hp/ton Power to Weight.
- 68/23 kmh top speed.
- 1000 HP.
- 40/20/20 mm hull armor.
- 25/25/25mm turret armor
- 46/42 deg per sec Turret/Hull Tranverse
- 390m view range.

 


AMX 13 90 Tier 8 -> Tier 9
- Can Fit Vertical Stabilizer now(French Lights cannot fit a Vert Stab in Current Live Server)
- 90mm autoloader 240/240/320 damage with 205/248/45 mm penetration APCR/APCR/HE
- 4 shot magazine with 2.21 seconds between shots and 23 second reload time.
- 0.38 accuracy with 2.7 sec aim time.
- -6/12 Depression/Elevation.
- Power to Weight Increased from 24 to 32 hp/ton.
- Top speed remains the same 64/23 kmh.
- HP Increased from 1100 to 1200
- Same Turret/Hull Traverse of 46/40 deg/sec.
- View Range remains the same at 400m.

 


AMX 13 105 Tier X
- 2nd Lowest view range of all Tier X Lights of 415m. 
- 2nd Highest Camo of all Tier X Lights after T-100. 
- Lowest DPM of 2163 with autoloader.
- 105mm autoloader 390/390/480 damage with 234/280/53 mm penetration APCR/HEAT/HE.
- 390/390/480 Damage with 242/280/53 mm penetration APCR/HEAT/HE.
- 3 shot magazine with 2.73 seconds between shots and 27 second reload time.
- 0.4 accuracy and 2.3 sec aim time.
- -8/12 Depression/Elevation.
- 1400 HP.
- 50/20/15 mm Hull Armor.
- 40/20/20 mm Turret Armor.
- 68/22 Top Speed.
- 38 Hp/ton Power to Weight.
- 38/40 deg/sec of Turret/Hull Traverse Speed. 

 

 

China


No idea if the current WZ-132 will be replaced for tier 9 or kept at tier 8.


WZ-132 Tier 8
- 100mm gun with 250/250/330 damage with 189/225/50 mm penetration AP/APCR/HE
- 8.57 Rounds Per Minute
- 0.4 accuracy with 2.3sec aim time.
- -5/20 Depression/Elevation.
- 29 hp/ton Power to Weight.
- 64/23 kmh top speed.
- 1100 HP.
- 50/25/20 mm hull armor.
- 55/35/20 mm turret armor
- 48/56 deg per sec Turret/Hull Tranverse
- 390m view range.

 


WZ-132A Tier 9
- 100mm gun with 320/320/420 damage with 220/248/50 mm penetration AP/APCR/HE
- 7.69 Rounds Per Minute
- 0.42 accuracy with 2.3sec aim time.
- -5/20 Depression/Elevation.
- 32 hp/ton Power to Weight.
- 64/23 kmh top speed.
- 1250 HP.
- 50/25/20 mm hull armor.
- 55/35/20 mm turret armor
- 40/46 deg per sec Turret/Hull Tranverse
- 420m view range.

 


WZ-132-1 Tier X
- 2nd Highest DPM at 2463 with 105mm gun with 6.32 Rounds Per Minute. 
- Middle camo rating of all Tier X lights.
- 2nd Highest View range of 425m of all Tier X lights
- 390/390/480 Damage with 246/280/53 mm penetration APCR/HEAT/HE
- 0.42 accuracy and 1.7 sec aim time.
- -5/20 Depression/Elevation
- 1500 HP
- 50/25/20 mm Hull Armor
- 200/160/65 mm Turret Armor
- 65/23 Top Speed
- 36 Hp/ton Power to Wieght
- 43/50 Turret/Hull Traverse Speed 

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I think the higher tier lights will be unimpressive, but more playable than currently. At high tier EVERYTHING has so much view range that specializing in a class that might squeeze out another 10m of advantage over the enemy team just isn't going to be worth the loss of firepower and durability. On the open maps they will have the potential to make or break games, but on too many maps they'll still be tough to make useful. The mobility will be pretty useful on closed maps, but you're still going to be very dependent on your heavies for opportunities.

The low-mid tier lights will be obnoxiously broken in comparison. The amount of potential abuse with tanks with 370+ view at tiers where tanks go as low as 330 means you'll be able to run circles around a lot of enemies. Light tank value will probably start to die off in tier 8 games where every one and his brother suddenly has 400 view range. The ranges start getting so high that effectively much less of the map can even be used without being constantly lit.

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10 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

The ranges start getting so high that effectively much less of the map can even be used without being constantly lit.

This is why wg also needs to rework maps..

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16 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

I think the higher tier lights will be unimpressive, but more playable than currently. At high tier EVERYTHING has so much view range that specializing in a class that might squeeze out another 10m of advantage over the enemy team just isn't going to be worth the loss of firepower and durability. On the open maps they will have the potential to make or break games, but on too many maps they'll still be tough to make useful. The mobility will be pretty useful on closed maps, but you're still going to be very dependent on your heavies for opportunities.

The low-mid tier lights will be obnoxiously broken in comparison. The amount of potential abuse with tanks with 370+ view at tiers where tanks go as low as 330 means you'll be able to run circles around a lot of enemies. Light tank value will probably start to die off in tier 8 games where every one and his brother suddenly has 400 view range. The ranges start getting so high that effectively much less of the map can even be used without being constantly lit.

Depends if they nerf view range especially on heavy tanks, but i agree on most thing you say; ALTHOUGH the Chinese tier X LT seems very interesting considering how fast it can be: it will be able to take a strong hulldown position very early in the game. This could apply to the T100 too depending on how good the turret is and with the superior frontal armor it may be even better than the WZ. 

What I see is that they might force a meta shift maybe not so much in  randoms with pubbie mouth breather, but in CW they will, promoting aggressive tactics. 

Also Bulldope confirmed strongest tier 8 LT with the Late gun? 2,3k base dpm seems very good plus gun depression and handling seems good to me.

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I don't see how T10 lights would promote aggressive tactics in CW, yes they will get into position fast, but 15 secs later 113's or what ever arrive and lights either go away, or die. In CW it does not matter really if you take some position a bit slower if you do it with such a force that can't be stopped by faster tanks that got there earlier. The way I see it they would promote tactic where you just try to run around enemy and take away any hit points or lonely tanks away you can, because you can't fight anything head on really. A bit like T54lt's against IS3's at T8. It can work, but requires a right map and good coordination. 

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What about batchats in tier10, they're basically a lightbtank and every cw team uses them nearly. They could have a role in tier 10 skirmishes

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16 hours ago, HS5 said:

I don't see how T10 lights would promote aggressive tactics in CW, yes they will get into position fast, but 15 secs later 113's or what ever arrive and lights either go away, or die. In CW it does not matter really if you take some position a bit slower if you do it with such a force that can't be stopped by faster tanks that got there earlier. The way I see it they would promote tactic where you just try to run around enemy and take away any hit points or lonely tanks away you can, because you can't fight anything head on really. A bit like T54lt's against IS3's at T8. It can work, but requires a right map and good coordination. 

Just because a team brings lts does not mean they cant bring 113s. LTs would take a foward position early waiting for "cavalry" support. As i said you have to look at the importance of  turret armor and ability to hold the position and if that allows you to gain map control. Also i believe that it would be more than 15 sec enough time to start an early skirmish.

And of course it requires the right map, bringing lots of LT on himmells would be stupid, but maps like prok or karelia or murovanka they would be important. 

Like the strv b they can be gamebreaking for their unique playstyle. Mine is just an hypothesis like the one I made about the strv b being super important in open cw maps. I might be wrong ofc but you cant deny that there is some potential for these tanks beyond just the scout role. 

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Ok, you have 5 lights and 10 113's. You take position with your lights, and wait for 113's. Enemy has 15 113's that arrive at the same time than yours. Who is going to win that fight? Or second scenario, enemy has 15 meds that arrive before your 113's and absolutely destroy your 5 lights. Yes that is making it more simple than it is, and of course I don't claim to know for sure if and how they will be used, but I just don't see them changing that much unless they have the hp/dpm combination to fight other T10's. And at the moment that doesn't seem to be the case. You can mix a few lights, but then again if you have to actually fight something, you have disadvantage. If the maps would be bigger or more open, then mobility over hp/dpm might be important, but at the moment...not really. T10 mediums and fast heavies are plenty fast for the maps we are playing. I think they will be like Strv, very good and useful to have one or two for specific roles on certain maps, but that's it.

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why would anyone take 5 lights. i'd figure 2 max

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The Rhm and T-100 DPMs have been nerfed too much. You get like over a 7s reload for 320 alpha and the Rhm has not far off 9s. WZ also. 

Their mobility has been brought in line with the others (plus SHeridan buffed) so they all have around 40 hp/ton which is still excellent (though no going up Himmelsdorf hill at 65kph memes, still do it about 50 kph). 

Sheridan has gone from clearly worst to arguably the best, it's had hp/ton buff, view range buff, and gun handling buff for 105, whilst keeping it's DPM.  Whilst the other have got worse.

The T-100 needed nerfs but it now barely has 2.3k DPM. The T49 on tier 9 with the 90mm beats it by like over 300 DPM. 

Stun changes are better you can move now. 

Worst thing about the sandbox is they let players like this test and give feedback -

http://wotlabs.net/na/player/scHnuuudle_bop

46% WR, has only ever played arty, has one tier 10 with a mighty 1091 DPG, but thinks the tier 10 lights might be a bit strong because he penned a Maus 3 times. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I can't wait for those tanks to hit live ! I hope WG communicate how the change will happen. How will xp be redistributed etc.. 

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7 hours ago, WorldConqueror said:

why would anyone take 5 lights. i'd figure 2 max

Exactly, which means they won't change much in CW/SH play, just replace BC's on some maps. From my part discussion started from claim that they would enable more aggressive game play in general, which would include using them for more than just a scouts, and that I don't think is the case. 

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3 minutes ago, HS5 said:

Exactly, which means they won't change much in CW/SH play, just replace BC's on some maps. From my part discussion started from claim that they would enable more aggressive game play in general, which would include using them for more than just a scouts, and that I don't think is the case. 

Ohh, gotcha. Then I agree with you. Just don't think the guns are good enough to be used as a major part of a force. Ltwts work in tier 8 competitive stuff coz their firepower is equivalent to tier 8 meds as well as being superior in other areas.

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Now i have not seen how much they have been nerfed but as  i mentioned  they could be important on certain maps. For example at taking the centre donut in Karelia or the hill on Prok and as i said,  it also depends on how their armor works and how good they are going to hold a hull down position. If the wz turret is a good as a t62a's then yes they can be useful by taking such position.  Now i think that with the nerfs that  chance they had is gone, altough saying that tanks like the strvb are important and good only on certain maps does not deny what i am saying. They may have a niche role for sure but if they are good at it, really good, they can change how you play those maps. If i recall correctly even Anfield has admitted in his video that the strvb is a good counter to the maus (the strvb video). 

 

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On 20/3/2017 at 10:16 AM, tajj7 said:

The Rhm and T-100 DPMs have been nerfed too much. You get like over a 7s reload for 320 alpha and the Rhm has not far off 9s. WZ also. 

Their mobility has been brought in line with the others (plus SHeridan buffed) so they all have around 40 hp/ton which is still excellent (though no going up Himmelsdorf hill at 65kph memes, still do it about 50 kph). 

Sheridan has gone from clearly worst to arguably the best, it's had hp/ton buff, view range buff, and gun handling buff for 105, whilst keeping it's DPM.  Whilst the other have got worse.

The T-100 needed nerfs but it now barely has 2.3k DPM. The T49 on tier 9 with the 90mm beats it by like over 300 DPM. 

Stun changes are better you can move now. 

Worst thing about the sandbox is they let players like this test and give feedback -

http://wotlabs.net/na/player/scHnuuudle_bop

46% WR, has only ever played arty, has one tier 10 with a mighty 1091 DPG, but thinks the tier 10 lights might be a bit strong because he penned a Maus 3 times. 

 

 

 

 

 

Lel i got perma'd from the official forums for calling him a retarded inbred.

And i had teamkilled him a couple of times before because durr artillery izz bestz clasz

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On 3/20/2017 at 4:49 PM, DHP said:

I hope WG communicate how the change will happen. How will xp be redistributed etc.. 

That's what interests me the most. 

Is there any point in grinding XP on the current T8 lights?

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Dunno, some say the xp will stay on the tank "name", some say it will stay at the designated tier. 

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I'm looking at all this chatter about the light tanks and I reeally doubt any of the meta will change, including CW.

These light tanks are only good for active scouting it seems, so they'll be restricted to maps where they can scout all game, like malinovka. They won't really rock the boat either, they'll just be replacing batchats and objects, simply doing the same job as before.

In any other CW map scouting is often just something you do in the beginning to figure the enemy out. It's a secondary role for the mediums that get sent out to do it, and once complete, those who scouted have to take on a combat role. The fact that clans can pull of strats in the more closed maps without scouting at all is testament to that. LTs, compared to mediums, would be the inferior here, and not used.

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14 hours ago, Strigonx said:

Lel i got perma'd from the official forums for calling him a retarded inbred.

And i had teamkilled him a couple of times before because durr artillery izz bestz clasz

Sounds about right, he said the biggest problem in game was unicums and that everyone likes arty cos they are playing it on sandbox. He said 90% of players don't play to win or do well just to 'have fun'. 

So the guy is pretty damn stupid and pretty delusional. 

 

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On 22/3/2017 at 10:17 AM, tajj7 said:

Sounds about right, he said the biggest problem in game was unicums and that everyone likes arty cos they are playing it on sandbox. He said 90% of players don't play to win or do well just to 'have fun'. 

So the guy is pretty damn stupid and pretty delusional. 

 

If wg listened to unicums (or people above 54/55%) the game would be dead in a few months.

You gotta keep the paying bots into the game, you know, the ones that throw cash at wg and still suck at the game.

With that said, I don't really think LTs will change the CW meta.

They may probably replace one of the batchats, or they may find a use in spotting your base allowing your teammates to reset, or rush to some aggressive spotting locations..

But that's it, they'll never render mediums obsolete in any way. Meds still have that mobility+armour+gun+dpm/burst combo that is still hard to beat..

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only difference will be that now you will not die to a camping grille 15 at the end of the battle but for a wz or bc which will outspot you every time

 

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1 hour ago, WhatTheSkara said:

If wg listened to unicums (or people above 54/55%) the game would be dead in a few months.

You gotta keep the paying bots into the game, you know, the ones that throw cash at wg and still suck at the game.

 

Disagree, as long as they are objective I think it would be fine, they know the meta, how tanks work and how the mechanics work.

I think most also recognise you need more forgiving tanks for the average player. 

Thing is bobs complain about a lot of the stuff the unicums do, most don't like getting whacked by high alpha TDs or arty, most don't like RNG screwing over their shots, most don't like OP tanks or heavies they can't do anything about frontally, most don't like the MM creating unbalanced teams. 

Probably premium ammo would be one of the main difference of opinion and maybe map design. 

Plus the other issue is a lot of them of are scrubs, if they get beaten it's never because the other person was better it's because of hacks/gold ammo/op tanks etc. so getting proper objective feedback from those guys is basically impossible. Everything that kills them is OP. 

The absolute bot like players will play the game whatever because they are clueless and they suck in whatever tank they have even if they have an OP one, I reckon most of WG's money will actually come from the greens to blues cos they are invested in the game, they are trying to improve etc. but don;t have the ease of credits or gold like better clans do.

What makes WG the most money is the -2 MM system and how grindy the game is.  Most people pay money to shorten grinds (XP and credits), get better crews, and get to higher tiers where they can be top dog more often.  I'm pretty sure WG even said one of the reasons for -2 is so any player even a bad one can stomp over the little guy and feel good about it.

----------------------------------------

I can only see the tier 10 lights having a minor role in CWs as on current stat their gun power + HP is just too low for them to take up too many spots in a team.

Especially if the Maus becomes more used in CWs, these lights can barely pen the thing from the side. 

 

 

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