Felicius

elimination Elimination: Swedish heavies!

24 posts in this topic

One more (mini) elimination thread!

  • Main reasons for this thread are the new Swedish heavies - 3 tanks with same crew layout, but you can pick only one of them (tier 6 is so fun right now, it is a genuine keeper). Given enough time (months of crew training, especially regarding lack of good (and suitable) crew trainers, I would like to keep tiers 6&8-10 from swedes, but I am limited to one girl crew I got from holiday ops (soon to have 2, one for tier 6 and one for a heavy. Many other ppl will undoubtedly face the same choice - they can also sell the tier 6, but still have to limit themselves to 1-2 Swedish heavies (or they can go TD line, god forbid :poi:).

You can explain the reasons as to which one you can pick and why. Clan war/stronghold viability is also nice to have, but not crucial. Random battle performance (solo/platoon.reasons why) is very important. I understand that those tanks have to rely on gold to do damage in most situations, but I would not like to depend on it - that is regarding tier 9&10 due to tantalizing choice of 252 APCR/300 HEAT. reload of Emil 2 complicates correct ammo choice even more, but again, a whole tier lower, and shells are stronger...just like in Skoda`s case.

Old rules apply, you increase the "best" choice by 1 and decrease the "worst" choice by 3. Each user is allowed to do this a maximum of once per day. You must explain your choices, even if very briefly. However, you can give your opinion of a tank you are neither upvoting or downvoting.

When a choice hits 0, it is eliminated. I'll keep track of in what order they were eliminated in the OP, and the end result is some form of interactive community aggregate ranking! Pretty neat. Highlight your increase with GREEN and your decrease with RED.

Since there is an elimination of only 3 tanks in total, tanks start with 60 points each (arbitrary from my side: but enough so enough ppl can give their opinions).

Kranvagn: 60

Emil 2: 60

Emil 1: 60

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Kranvagn: 61 - Impenetrable turret (kinda), garbage hull, 12 degrees of gun depression.  Crossover between a T57 and a 50B, which is what I'm comfortable with.  If only when I first played it......arty wasn't queing with 4 per fucking game.....

Emil 2: 57 - Kranvagn with a 40 second reload, worse overall.  It's a tier 9 but honestly why play this when you can get a higher dpm version at tier 10.

Emil 1: 60 - lol armor and pretty dank I like

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Shifty_101st said:

why play this when you can get a higher dpm version at tier 10.

Superior MM? 

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I started (lel, freexped) until T5, and i think hands down karnvagen is best. Dank armor with clip, now way this is beatable in randoms. 

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2 hours ago, Jug0sLovEn said:

Superior MM? 

Not on NA unfortunately.  Even still, why play an autoloader with a 40 second reload with subpar pen when there are so many other better tanks?

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Kranvagn: 61 + 1 = 62. Easily best, because gun isnt even that bad (okay gun handling, has clip and decent acc, perfectly workable)

Emil 2: 57 - 3 = 54. Is like 50 120 is to 50 B: gimped version of tier 10. Has terrible magazine reload.

Emil 1: 60

 

Atleast Emil 1 is tiny af and doesnt have 40 sec clip reload and 3.33 intra which is why i slightly prefer it to its bigger brother.

 

Also why 60 points on each tank? Wouldnt we just drop it to 30? I mean, the winner is quite obvious anyway, its just fight between which EMIL goes down first.

 

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1 hour ago, leggasiini said:

Also why 60 points on each tank? Wouldnt we just drop it to 30? I mean, the winner is quite obvious anyway, its just fight between which EMIL goes down first.

Because I am interested in more than 10 opinions...

I would have preferred even more points, but not that many ppl have them as of yet - on live server. I played test almost as much as normal server at the time, and liked them all, to be honest. It is like having 3 sexy girls you wanna fuck all at once...but they are friends, and picking one would mean you lose any chances you may have with other 2.

So far I am on Strv 74 and having fun with it, elited and 4th skill crew, other acc I grind Leo for daily x5+xp boosters.

So far my new clan said nothing about Emil 1, but they are interested in Kranvagn...although not that much that i must have one...they still prefer hovermeds or E-100.

One thing that never bothered my with Emil 2 was the clip reload - tank have enough armor/speed to fire it, and retreat with impunity. It may skew the WR, though, since matches can be over by the 2nd clip reload...(50 100 syndrome), and unlike 50 100, you can not influence a match with one clip only (relative clip size and penetration values in their respectable tiers, 50 100 can clip one tank, Emil 2 hardly)...

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Kranvagn: 62 + 1 = 63. The extra speed and DPM over Emil II makes a big difference.

Emil II: 54

Emil I: 60 - 3 = 57. I'm not sure about how anyone enjoys this with the wonky gunhandling, unreliable turret, somewhat low pen and worst mobility of the bunch. Not a bad tank, though.

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The intra is long too and the gun is unreliable enough that you quite frequently wont get full 1,6k clip damage. Long reload is a problem on EMIL II because of those. Thats why Kran is great, it fixes those problems and its actually fast (people act like EHMAGERD ITS SLOW but in reality its still like 3rd most mobile tier 10 HT, and the most mobile one is nothing like heavy so technically its 2nd most mobile sooo...). 

I get it why you want as many opinions as possible so you can know for sure that what is the best one, but its honestly quite obvious. EMIL II is almost automatically out because its gimped, less fun to play version of tier 10. How many of us prefer 50 120 over 50 B (even after buffs)? The same you could ask from those who grinded Swede HTs.

 

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Pure based on test server expierence: Emil II > Emil I > Kranvwagen, the slowness / long reload of the tier 9 are more then compensated by the OPness of its armor, tier 9 has stock tanks, less gold spammers, and in general less tanks with super mega penetration. It played like an E75 with autoloader :P

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Here's the current list:

Kranvagn: 63

Emil 2: 54

Emil 1: 57

@GehakteMolen Your opinions on bricks are very nice, because you get them opposed to mainstream. A breath of fresh air.

7 hours ago, leggasiini said:

I get it why you want as many opinions as possible so you can know for sure that what is the best one, but its honestly quite obvious.

Nothing is obvious (as of yet), at least not for me. I disliked Grille from the start,  since arty bloom and gimped traverse/turret...

But the role of armor is harder to determine. Emil 2 has the strongest tier-for-tier armor among them...and penetration as well. I get the intra clip is a terrible fault, but it has the armor to empty it without getting killed. 

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Kranvagn: 64

Emil 2: 54

Emil 1: 54

Day 2.  Don't have the Emil 1, sold that thing so I played it on another's account yesterday.  Must have been having good rng or some shit because I got demolished in 2 games playing it.  Armor became stupid unreliable, already had bad mobility but now it was a sitting duck 50120 so -3 for that.

Kranvagn is even better in my eyes.  Day 2 playing this tank had limited arty focus which finally allowed me to go ham in this tank.  Raised my DPG from around 2600 or so to 3200 in about 10-12 games.  Still the best fit for me, meh tank overall but still a good fit for me.

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Outcome is going to be obvious

Kranvagn: 66
Emil 2: 54
Emil 1: 51

Emil 1 is only good in strongholds and even then it suffers. It cannot bounce shit in pubs.

Emil 2 at least has a reliable turret.

Kranvagn for obvious reasons.

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Kranvagn: 66 ----> -66 = 0
Emil 2: 54 --------> -54 = 0
Emil 1: 51 --------> -51 = 0

THEY ALL SUCK HOLY SHIT WHY ARE WE DOING THIS ELIMINATION ANY LONGER!?  Kranvagn can only hull down.  Has a shit gun, shit mobility, shit dpm, shit everything.  It's a 1 trick pony which is a staple of the whole fucking Swedish heavy and TD tech tree!!!!!!! Emil II is the same thing, but with a 40 second kill me now reload!!!!!!! Emil I............just why, take this thing to the back of the shed and shoot it in the mother fucking head god damn.

 

/thread

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12 hours ago, Shifty_101st said:

Kranvagn: 66 ----> -66 = 0
Emil 2: 54 --------> -54 = 0
Emil 1: 51 --------> -51 = 0

THEY ALL SUCK HOLY SHIT WHY ARE WE DOING THIS ELIMINATION ANY LONGER!?  Kranvagn can only hull down.  Has a shit gun, shit mobility, shit dpm, shit everything.  It's a 1 trick pony which is a staple of the whole fucking Swedish heavy and TD tech tree!!!!!!! Emil II is the same thing, but with a 40 second kill me now reload!!!!!!! Emil I............just why, take this thing to the back of the shed and shoot it in the mother fucking head god damn.

 

/thread

So, to save the best crew for a sexy Strv 74? Girl one?

Kranvagn is gonna be used in CW, at least (to a degree). But there you need just a repair crew...bare necessities like 6th are not needed..much less all the niceties like gunnery/mobility/vision skills that you need for random.

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Honestly the Kranvagn will be better if WG buffs the gold pen and improves the mobility.  Till then the tank is a one trick pony

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On 1/3/2017 at 2:29 AM, Shifty_101st said:

Honestly the Kranvagn will be better if WG buffs the gold pen and improves the mobility.  Till then the tank is a one trick pony

This. Once you get through the honeymoon phase, the Kranvagn is terrible. For it to be good in a match, all of the following must be fulfilled:

1. Must be behind not too steep hill;
2. Must have all enemies within a 70 degree cone directly in front;
3. Must have no arty;
4. Must have passive enemies not pushing during eternity-load;
5. Must have enemies exposed for long periods of time to get shots off due to over 9000 years between shells;
6. Must not get shot at with HE

Ty Drison for making a list for me

Playing the Kranvagn, in my experience, has meant accepting the fact that all three arty you meet every game are going to click you no matter what. Most pubbies are still convinced that it's as OP as it was during the first iteration of the test server and are scared shitless of it, and therefore will focus you. Hard. 

Why anyone would want to play it (other than for the challenge) when the 50 B and 57 Heavy exist is beyond me. I'd rather not play RNG hoping I get one of the few maps it can excel on. 

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This elimination went well lmao

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8 hours ago, leggasiini said:

This elimination went well lmao

If it went better i would have stopped at tier 6. 

Shifty was right. Although, I had fun with Emil 1, even with Leo (with 75). 

Emil 2 and Kran are just so boring to play. Emil 2 more boring, Kran more frustrating. Emil 1 is not good at Stronks, in random it is better. Fun to play with an all gold+food loadout.

P.S.

I do get called a lot in CW thanks to my Maus, 113, E-100, Kran, and before I had Grille 15 (sold after nerf). Out of them all, I only ever drive the Maus in pubs (after buff).

Everyone and their mother have a Soviet hovermed and E5.

When thinking about it, I still like Crommie more than Strv 74. Swedes were one big dissapointment. Czech tree had one super OP tank (T 50), and 2 more viable ones - 6&10.

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For me it went like this : Emil I > Emil II > Krangvagn

 

 

If i take the whole line to tier 6 : Strv 74 > Emil > Leo (105cm) > Emil II > Krangvagn

 

 

Honestly it was really hard because from T6 to tier 9 there isn’t a bad tank, the Strv is incredible and the Emil was really enjoyable the only letdown what the T10, the penetration is just too bad, 300HEAT is just so so so bad at tier 10.

 

Ps: i posted this in the Kragn thread but will post it again here with the same legend 

This is what you get from a heavy situationnal tank : (shitload of damage when in position and barely any when you can't get hulldown or face a superheavy).

4ADArAU.png

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On 10. maaliskuuta 2017 at 2:56 PM, DHP said:

For me it went like this : Emil I > Emil II > Krangvagn

 

 

If i take the whole line to tier 6 : Strv 74 > Emil > Leo (105cm) > Emil II > Krangvagn

 

 

Honestly it was really hard because from T6 to tier 9 there isn’t a bad tank, the Strv is incredible and the Emil was really enjoyable the only letdown what the T10, the penetration is just too bad, 300HEAT is just so so so bad at tier 10.

 

Ps: i posted this in the Kragn thread but will post it again here with the same legend 

This is what you get from a heavy situationnal tank : (shitload of damage when in position and barely any when you can't get hulldown or face a superheavy).

4ADArAU.png

Honestly my opinion has changed from my review and i agree with you, though imo Kranvagn > EMIL II. EMIL II's gun handling, clip and intra clip reload are just way too much IMO

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On 3/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, leggasiini said:

Honestly my opinion has changed from my review and i agree with you, though imo Kranvagn > EMIL II. EMIL II's gun handling, clip and intra clip reload are just way too much IMO

I know man, but Emil 2 faces so much easier competition - much less superheavies, and tier 9 has 60% weight of tier 10. Do I feel that Kranvagn can do 66% more dmg a whole tier higher, with the same potato gun? Nope. I kinda struggle to make 20% more, and try to spot (yup,srsly) for my team with 490 view range. If I spot a target beyond 200 m, not bothering to shoot it mostly.

besides, Kran has a potato gun handling, too, just not so bad as Emil 2.

Think about this: Emil 2 can penetrate T-10 easily, but IS-7 lolnope (unless idiot). E-75 and E-100 same deal, E5/M103...Maus/Mäuschen.....list is endless. Tier 10 heavies are simply too strong for 300 heat coupled with such a terrible gun. If it had E-50 M gun, than maybe...

On 3/10/2017 at 1:56 PM, DHP said:

For me it went like this : Emil I > Emil II > Krangvagn

If i take the whole line to tier 6 : Strv 74 > Emil > Leo (105cm) > Emil II > Krangvagn

Honestly it was really hard because from T6 to tier 9 there isn’t a bad tank, the Strv is incredible and the Emil was really enjoyable the only letdown what the T10, the penetration is just too bad, 300HEAT is just so so so bad at tier 10.

Ps: i posted this in the Kragn thread but will post it again here with the same legend 

This is what you get from a heavy situationnal tank : (shitload of damage when in position and barely any when you can't get hulldown or face a superheavy).

My thoughts exactly. A very good sum-up. Only that I preferred Leo with pew-pew for fun.

I do not regret (much) going down the line, though - it netted me awesome personal reserves, and Kran is sill (situationally) useful in CW.

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So what would fix the Emil 2 and Kran to make them good? Better gun handling and intraclip or  medium HEAT pen of 330?

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3 hours ago, RGM79GM said:

So what would fix the Emil 2 and Kran to make them good? Better gun handling and intraclip or  medium HEAT pen of 330?

Complete rework.

I already wrote about it on Kranvagn thread, but cant copy paste well because im on mobile now.

In short, less armor (especially on turret), slightly better mobility, single shot guns with better pen and handling and option for 150mm single shot gun on Kranvagn.

On their current state they are very hard to fix to make them fun to play while at same time not overpowered. They are kinda broken because on few situations Swe heavies are just OP as fuck but then there is situations where they....suck. They are unfun to play and play against.

Slight gun handling buff would work and small pen buff for Kranvagn if it is really necessary to keep them like they are now, but nothing else imo, lets not make them what they were on 1st phase of 9.17 TS.

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