Steel_Six

Improved WN8, No Improvement in Win Rate

37 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, 8_Hussars said:

Food for thought...

Rather than wade through it all Page 4 is likely best.

 

I notice that almost none of the purple players state that they've never used XVM, just that they don't now and for a variety of reasons, however the main one seems to be the one you have highlighted.

 

Which sounds more like "I get overconfident seeing that sea of red in front of me, and then I get smoked".

 

Certainly that sea of red could use a little extra help, don't you think? ;)

 

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37 minutes ago, Steel_Six said:

I notice that almost none of the purple players state that they've never used XVM, just that they don't now and for a variety of reasons, however the main one seems to be the one you have highlighted.

Which sounds more like "I get overconfident seeing that sea of red in front of me, and then I get smoked".

Certainly that sea of red could use a little extra help, don't you think? ;)

Was just trying to provide you some additional perspectives...  It was not my intent to debate or to convince you one way or another.  YMMV

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Have you tried dropping tiers? I notice you are hovering at t8 or above(past 8k games with 29% survival). Perhaps try dropping to tier 5 or 6 and focus improving skills that yield wins rather than damage( which comes automatically if you do so). So, you would typically play tanks with the ability to flex to either flank/or just run to a safer spot to defend from. Examples: T37 forces you to provide your red teammates something to shoot at while surviving till end game, M4/Strv74/cromwell gives you the option of flexing to either flank when need be or just forcing your team through a position by flanking/exposing their defenders.

Higher tiers usually require really well skilled tank crews and operator :) with good equipment setups. Playing t5 forces you to hone skills + learn good spots/abuse vision for attack/defense on any map sans great crews or equipment etc as it's a total crap shoot most of the time. Once you can consistently sustain good stats at t5/6, try t8/t9 and you will notice a marked difference in your game play. Not t10 though, as solo play is not recommended ( I am your best example).

Pityfool's advice is great but only if you actually have the ability to analyse team comp, map needs and team skills within the first 30 seconds and can force your team follow through on your plan!

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On 1/13/2017 at 6:34 PM, Steel_Six said:

I'll provide some personal examples of how XVM has helped my game get better, or at least helped me increase my damage output.

First, on each map and with a normal distribution of classes, there are 'heavy' spots and 'medium' spots and 'td' spots to go to during deployment. One assume everyone knows this and one can get ones ass shot off rather quickly when one does this without considering who the opposition is.

I've learned better deployment options because I've followed what Uni's do in certain situations, and not knowing their skill level would have meant their movements would have been simple random chance.

A lower level player will take his T110E5 and put it into action with the other heavies. A Uni, if he sees a favorable deployment, will waffle stomp the 'medium' spot before turning back and dealing with the heavies. Knowing that a Uni is in that tank increases the possible variations of the game, and identifying where he will attack is knowledge that can help you decide which angle of attack you want to attempt.

A platoon of three green-blue mediums is bad news, and one can expect a fairly rapid push on the medium side. A platoon of three red-yellow mediums rarely demands the same level of concern.

I can watch Unis and near Unis redeploy on maps (either friend or foe, but it's more obvious with foe) in order to either capitalize on a weakness or stabilize a flank. I can't emphasize, for me, how important watching that has been in helping improve my game.

One of the first battles I had with XVM was sand river, and we had a Uni IS 6 on our team as top tier. So I'm thinking, great, battles in the bag.

Well

We get smoked, and it was getting obvious ( I had already died, so I decided to follow him). What he did was gave up a strategically important position for a more tactically advantageous one. Not that it was going to alter the outcome of the game, but it was certainly going to improve his odds of dealing damage longer. Me, I used to sit there in my 'spot' and duke it out regardless, wasting the opportunity to improve my EXP by doing more damage.  It was an important lesson to learn that one can still improve one's play even in a losing situation

 

The other night I was on redshire in the north spawn in my M48 and saw a platoon of E100s from G facing us. This isn't necessarily an XVM insight, however if I didn't know who G was but had been using XVM instead, I would have seen the increased danger that their skill level posed to my team. Based on who they were, I decided to offer flank protection to my heavies. I setup behind the hill (there wasn't any arty, thank god) where I had cover on the inside of my heavies position but couldn't get hit from enemies in the middle of the field.

They tried to rush our guys around that flank (my heavies were packed behind that rock formation in the east) but after tapping an E4 and the first E100, I was able to prevent my guys from being bum rushed.  One of the E100s didn't shoot at my heavies at all, he kept his gun on my position the entire fight. If he swiveled towards my guys, I would poke out, he'd see me and swivel back. If he kept his gun on me, I sat back (unless one of the other tanks tried to push, then I would accept a hit and tap him). Our heavies lasted long enough for our mediums to win their fight, sweep back and mop up what was left of their eastern push. Not a great stat game for me, but a great tactical read because of the knowledge of the level of the players across from me.

I also learned that Unis can shoot a dust mite off a mosquitos ass in that game; that E100 hit me twice at distance and I was moving and not showing much of anything.

Another game, I'm on Lakeville in the M48 and the enemy  only have two good players, both unis, one in a Cent AX, the other in a 907. Both those guys go city, a bunch of us go valley. Our valley push works pretty well, we had like 4 tanks make it across the ridge in good shape, so I swing back to move down the center road and support our city guys. While I'm doing that, I see these unis peel back and start taking on the valley tanks. By the time I can make it down the road (picking off a few cripples along the way) they've engaged and are waffle stomping our valley guys. We win the city, they win the valley, and it's me and a TD (that big Russian one) and some tier 9 heavy taking these guys on. Knowing how good they were really increased my level of focus, however it might have turned my TD compatriot into a moron, because he yoloed the 907 for some reason when he could have played off me to get better shots and got smoked. The heavy and I took out the AX, the 907 took out the heavy, and he ended up winning the match with 10hp. Which I count as a win for me :) 

Now, I don't know if they expected to win that game or not. And I am not clear why they didn't simply push the city than swing back. But I assume it's because it would have been a lot harder to get tactically advantageous positions if they let the push in the valley make it to the cap. Maybe someone here can answer that question.

I have always viewed XVM the way I view damage counters, as another means of figuring out what I should be doing at any given time on the map. I don't think it provides a good player any important bits of information, he already has that when he logs in. But for those of us who are still learning (24k games, sheesh, that's like 12 year of kindergarten) it really is informative. But only if you are using it properly.

 

 

What I believe you are doing here is: 1st generalizing single good battles, and 2nd forgetting all those battles that you made bad decisions because of what XVM told you. I can't argue with your reasoning in those games, maybe it was good choice to do what you did, maybe not, but generally it seems that you are really over analyzing games based on what you see in XVM. Which is not a good thing, as you can see from your win rates and stuff. The game is really not that complex as you make it with these examples, just go to a spot where you tank is good or what game situation requires(in best case scenario both) and shoot red tanks more than they shoot you and you will win quite a lot of your games :) I stopped using XVM stats about 1.5 years or so ago and I can tell it has helped with situational awareness and reading the game a lot. The fact is that stats just don't matter in the game, good players make mistakes and bad players make good plays, or at least unexpected plays, so only way is to see what is actually happening in the game instead of trying to predict based on stats.

I kind a agree that if you are complete beginner, it might be worth having XVM just to follow what good players are doing. But even in that situation, once you know the basic mechanics of the game and basic map positions, it's not really needed. And generally even good players make really stupid plays quite often, so unless you are following like server top 100 players or something I'm not sure if it's even worth it :) 

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On 1/13/2017 at 7:11 AM, nemlengyel said:

This. I don't quite get the arguments often cited in favor of XVM that it somehow allows you to "see who is dangerous" or "allow you to adapt." No.

+1

I installed XVM stats quite some time ago, to see who i should avoid. 1: it didn't work that way - i just engage what i see, when i play, so zero benefit there (not to mention it's often too late to run away), and 2: it just served as a distraction. Stopped using it, haven't logged in to XVM since, either.

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12 hours ago, HS5 said:

I kind a agree that if you are complete beginner, it might be worth having XVM just to follow what good players are doing. But even in that situation, once you know the basic mechanics of the game and basic map positions, it's not really needed. And generally even good players make really stupid plays quite often, so unless you are following like server top 100 players or something I'm not sure if it's even worth it :) 

And it's much better to learn positioning from streamers and reputed wotlabs members than random ppl XVM shows as "good". Maybe the guy just pads his stats in LTs and does not actually play the game at a high level. Maybe his playstyle is completely different. But even if not, just because "an unicum went there" does not make a spot automatically viable. There are lots of variables involved such as team composition and that's why it's better to watch streamers, because most will explain why they went there in that particular situation. Blindly imitating random XVM unicums might be profitable sometimes but will let you down more often.

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4 hours ago, nemlengyel said:

And it's much better to learn positioning from streamers and reputed wotlabs members than random ppl XVM shows as "good". Maybe the guy just pads his stats in LTs and does not actually play the game at a high level. Maybe his playstyle is completely different. But even if not, just because "an unicum went there" does not make a spot automatically viable. There are lots of variables involved such as team composition and that's why it's better to watch streamers, because most will explain why they went there in that particular situation. Blindly imitating random XVM unicums might be profitable sometimes but will let you down more often.

It's certainly less efficient than watching streams or replay packs!  Seeing what a good player does in a variety of situations really let's you understand the whys.

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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 0:56 PM, Ficarra said:

Have you tried dropping tiers? I notice you are hovering at t8 or above(past 8k games with 29% survival). Perhaps try dropping to tier 5 or 6 and focus improving skills that yield wins rather than damage( which comes automatically if you do so). So, you would typically play tanks with the ability to flex to either flank/or just run to a safer spot to defend from. Examples: T37 forces you to provide your red teammates something to shoot at while surviving till end game, M4/Strv74/cromwell gives you the option of flexing to either flank when need be or just forcing your team through a position by flanking/exposing their defenders.

Higher tiers usually require really well skilled tank crews and operator :) with good equipment setups. Playing t5 forces you to hone skills + learn good spots/abuse vision for attack/defense on any map sans great crews or equipment etc as it's a total crap shoot most of the time. Once you can consistently sustain good stats at t5/6, try t8/t9 and you will notice a marked difference in your game play. Not t10 though, as solo play is not recommended ( I am your best example).

Pityfool's advice is great but only if you actually have the ability to analyse team comp, map needs and team skills within the first 30 seconds and can force your team follow through on your plan!

I'll give that a try, especially since I've been playing my E8 at near Unicum levels over the last few dozen games. I'd almost given up on that tank (since the last time I got back to WoT) because it was getting (I was getting) hammered every time it left the garage, but now it seems that unless I really face plant or the team turns to dust, that rapid fire gun can really put out the damage.

Following along here, the advice is split between playing with the big boys until you get gud, or staying in the small pond and learning tactics. At this point, I think the small pond deserves a chance.

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:53 AM, nemlengyel said:

And it's much better to learn positioning from streamers and reputed wotlabs members than random ppl XVM shows as "good". Maybe the guy just pads his stats in LTs and does not actually play the game at a high level. Maybe his playstyle is completely different. But even if not, just because "an unicum went there" does not make a spot automatically viable. There are lots of variables involved such as team composition and that's why it's better to watch streamers, because most will explain why they went there in that particular situation. Blindly imitating random XVM unicums might be profitable sometimes but will let you down more often.

This is something I probably have neglected which I will start doing. I've never watched a streamer, but I have watched some Youtube vids. Good advice.

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7 minutes ago, Steel_Six said:

This is something I probably have neglected which I will start doing. I've never watched a streamer, but I have watched some Youtube vids. Good advice.

Definitely. The sponsored streamers listed on wotlabs.net are all great. There are even more ppl in this thread:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steel_Six said:

Following along here, the advice is split between playing with the big boys until you get gud, or staying in the small pond and learning tactics. At this point, I think the small pond deserves a chance.

This is something I probably have neglected which I will start doing. I've never watched a streamer, but I have watched some Youtube vids. Good advice.

You may want to have a gander at these two articles...

http://wotlabs.net/articles/getting-better-world-tanks-brutal-simple-timely-way/

http://wotlabs.net/articles/getting-better-internet-tanks-cuddly-complex-enduring-way/

 

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I believe the best way to improve wr is to play heavies. Not any paper support heavy, but an actual heavy. Get stuck in, bounce shots, leverage you armor and hitpoints.

I've noticed that the outcome of the main engagement in a game is usually determined by the performance of one or two key tanks in that fight--usually the top tier heavy. And winning the key engagement often snowballs into winning the game.

 

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Same with me.

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