Megumin

So what's the point of (possible) upcoming light tanks changes

77 posts in this topic

First off, what is even the difference between the current +3 MM and upcoming +2 MM(after all the scouts be raised 1 tier up).  These 2 type of MM result the same.:serb:

So far, all the LTs changes from the super-test server looks awful and pointless. Mostly all-rounds nerf. RIP 1390&M41 :feelsbad:

We are still having tons of corridor maps and CQC maps where the scouts can't really do shit. TBH, mediums can still do the spotting job on the maps where the scouts can be useful. The view range difference is not significant after all. Only camo matters- LTs can sneak into some bushes with lower chance being spotted.

"Don't worry, we will nerf 'em further more"

Now we can kick those popular LTs out of the CW by moving them one tier up.:kappa:

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You say light tank MM will be the same but IMO it won't.

I was playing tier 7 lights last night, and I can tell you that the number of tier 10 games we got was way higher than the number of tier 10 games a tier 8 normal tank would get.

Plus you'll now have lights above you to fill those 'light' tank spots. the MM tries to match light tank weights equally on each team, it won't need to do that with tier 9 and 10 lights they can just be treated like regular tier 6 - 10 tanks are.

So I reckon they will get better MM in the end. 

Plus I quite like the changes so far. Sure the Bulldog is losing the autoloader that is a bit of odd choice IMO. But aside from that most of the tier 8s that are becoming tier 9s are getting buffed with it, whilst they are essentially not changing MM.

Like an RU251 is getting more HP, more view range, more DPM and more pen, for the loss of 10 kph top speed and probably better MM.

The WZ-132 which is staying at tier 8 was barely changed, yet is essentially dropping down a whole tier. 

I also disagree the view difference is huge when coupled with their mobility and camo, before most lights were about equal or had less view range than the tanks of similar tier and could really scout because of their camo and keeping it on the move.

But now an RU251 for example has 30m more base view range than a T-54, whilst being more stealthy and more mobile as well.  The Tier 10 German light will have a 40m advantage over most tanks on tier, it;s on the move view range with good skills will push past the 520-530m mark that even Pattons can't touch whilst it's likely to have better than Bat Chat camo on the move.

Sure we need better maps, but this is a move in the right direction IMO for lights, more HP, more pen, more DPM, more view range, they'll be even better at what they can currently do. Sure they will still be crap in corridor maps early in the game, but at exploiting breakthrough's flanking etc. they'll be even better. 

Imagine a top tier RU251 with 215 pen, reloading every 4s and able to take an extra shot, sounds fun to me. Especially with current tier 9 MM where you often only get 3-4 tier 9s a side. 

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It seems pretty silly to me, but I think @Folterknecht probably hit the nail on the head.  The game certainly does not need a tier 9 13-90 and BC t AP, but somebody will probably buy enough gold to free XP them so why not.

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1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

Imagine a top tier RU251 with 215 pen, reloading every 4s and able to take an extra shot, sounds fun to me. 

The type-61 with stock gun tho,reload even faster:serb:

This is alike the 17pound gun on tier7. 240 alpha in tier9 is actually under-powered due to the current map design(distance of the engagement), but as you said the maps might get better.  

 

1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

But aside from that most of the tier 8s that are becoming tier 9s are getting buffed with it, whilst they are essentially not changing MM.

 

1390 is going to be pile of trash after the change. T49 without the 152mm derp gun is going to be a reskined ru251 with worse reload and accuracy. T-54ltwt- I only saw the all-rounds nerf and slight view range buff. WZ-132A, gun have horrific accuracy, other than that is fine.

I mean other than the view range is all-round nerf.

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I still think if they want to make high trier lights viable they should not give amazeballs (not just good) gun stats first and foremost. That would kinda help with the shit corridor meta. Even if they have lowish alpha and lowish hp and shit armor low exposure increases survivability. 

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Best bit... your average tier should go up! \o/

Beyond that it's a little unclear. You get the feeling some of the stats are more 'placeholder' than others.

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Removing the autoloader from the Bulldog will transform one of the best tanks in the game into one of the most pointless to have in your garage, imho. It's what compensates for the tank's relatively shitty camo rating. Trying to camp bush to out spot tier X MTs in an M41 is a mugs game. Now where am I going to put one of my best crews in the game. 

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6 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I was playing tier 7 lights last night, and I can tell you that the number of tier 10 games we got was way higher than the number of tier 10 games a tier 8 normal tank would get.

That myth needs to be debunked already. It kept people from platooning with a tier lower light for too long. A tier 7 light and a tier 8 tank after a considerate amount of games like any statistic needs, will have the exact same average battle tier. And I have the VBaddict stats to back it up.
That means the uptiered lights will have the same exactly MM they had before... but for some reason nerfed characteristics. 

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Oh a NA Megumi

75df8e1eb2168ce1.jpg

After we got this joke out of the way. In my opinion the mm will improve for lights but the role they have in the matches wont rly change. If you are able to do dmg now you will be able to do so in the future. If not, there wont much change in the upcoming meta. I just don`t see any roles in T10 games for T10 light tanks over T10 meds. 

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First off, Megumim/10. :P

Second off, the current tier 8 lights are just getting some more health basically, which is good. It makes them much more capable. EXCEPT the 13 90. The changes to that thing are retarded. Id much rather have the current 13 90 with no buffs, than what they are doing with those proposed changes. A 240 alpha 4 round autoloader is completely useless. It wont even be able to clip same tier lights which basically means you are dead in any light 1v1

 

Oh also this LT change might have the added effect of making tier 8 strongholds less about whoever brings more lights. We'll see how the new tier 8 lights play I guess

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16 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

First off, Megumim/10. :P

Second off, the current tier 8 lights are just getting some more health basically, which is good. It makes them much more capable. EXCEPT the 13 90. The changes to that thing are retarded. Id much rather have the current 13 90 with no buffs, than what they are doing with those proposed changes. A 240 alpha 4 round autoloader is completely useless. It wont even be able to clip same tier lights which basically means you are dead in any light 1v1

 

Oh also this LT change might have the added effect of making tier 8 strongholds less about whoever brings more lights. We'll see how the new tier 8 lights play I guess

new uprising of wz 132? 

also m41 90mm gf proxy buff? 

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Is there a place that shows all the proposed changes to light tanks?  The only thing I've found in the threads is that armoredpatrol report from 12/19.  People seem to be referencing something pretty detailed and recent.

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Light tanks are generally garbage in pubs and wargaming is *trying* to fix this 

It's a great idea but the devs haven't the slightest fucking clue how the game works so it ends up being like "lithg tenks shud do scoot. bat bcuz lit tenk, shud onyl ba abel to socut dan ont sooht" :drunk:

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17 hours ago, Megumin said:

The type-61 with stock gun tho,reload even faster:serb:

This is alike the 17pound gun on tier7. 240 alpha in tier9 is actually under-powered due to the current map design(distance of the engagement), but as you said the maps might get better.  

 

 

1390 is going to be pile of trash after the change. T49 without the 152mm derp gun is going to be a reskined ru251 with worse reload and accuracy. T-54ltwt- I only saw the all-rounds nerf and slight view range buff. WZ-132A, gun have horrific accuracy, other than that is fine.

I mean other than the view range is all-round nerf.

Depends, yeh 240 is very low on a tier 9 but if any tank class can take advantage of it most it's lights, perm-a-tracking things you've flanked, melting things you've flanked and generally annoying the crap out of people.

It doesn't work on the Type 61 or Cent 7/1 because they are both huge and not that fast, but for example 180-200 fast firing alpha works quite nicely on the LTTB and WZ-131.

Disagree on the 1390, for a start I think we'll see further changes (all the others have got a view range and HP buff), but I think a smaller faster firing clip is better than a larger clip that takes longer to reload and longer to fire. It's why the Czech autoloaders are so much better than their French counterparts IMO, they get their shots out quicker and are back in the game quicker, overall that gives them way more utility. 

Plus they had to make it different to the Bat Chat AP, it's going to have a 960 clip that takes 6.6s to fire and 23s to reload with 205 AP pen. It's basically like a T69 on a faster platform with more pen on tier 9. 

I'd personally prefer to play that over the current 1390 that takes 13s to fire it's clip and then like 45s to reload, might just be me but I think that's a big buff to the 1390.

If they give it 1300 - 1400 HP and 420m view range I reckon it'll be pretty good.

All the rest have seen buffs across the board pretty much aside the weird accuracy nerfs and the RU top speed nerf.

They have all had view range, HP, penetration and DPM buffs, despite the fact they haven't changed MM. 

T-49 also has more DPM than the RU, it's got nearly 2.7k base, it's reload is 5.4s without any upgrades. Plus it sill has it's gun depression to the front, the RU only has -6 to the front. It also has a little more HP and is a little faster now. 

T-54 ltw has had the least changes, very slight HP, view range and DPM buffs, pen has gone up from 175 to 208, but hasn't it also had insane gun handling buffs? 

Overall though they have all got better (and could get better still) despite not actually changing their MM. 

 

 

 

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What point? Has there ever been one? 

There are 2 things that determine if a tank is good or not: the tank itself and maps. Lts are shit, maps are bad for them (apart prok and mali) so this tells you what the point is. And this comes from a guy who loves LTs

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The obvious answer to the OP's question, is because if you put more tier X's into the game, it gives players more to grind, and so retains them and encourages them to spend money, all of which makes WG more profit, and for those of us who continue to be addicted to WoT, this is a good thing as it keeps the servers populated.

 

The thread above addresses more the utility of the vehicles and how they will perform in players hands. Given this is wotlabs, this is a self selected sample of above average players, who not only understand how the game works, but are also looking for tanks that they can be highly effective in. On the early stats from super test I am more inclined to agree with tajj7's analysis of what may happen, however super test stats do not always stay that way when vehicles get into common test or even live in the game.

 

I am particularly interested in what happens to the M41 90mm GF aka Blackdog. If this vehicle is left untouched (due to it being a premium), then as mentioned above by clicker that seems to be a buff?

 

I am also going to presume Type 64 and Type 62 will remain untouched. For the Type 62 this will be nothing special as it will remain on tier VII. But for the Type 64 on tier VI only getting +2 MM should be a nice buff.

 

AMX 13 57 GF. To my mind this vehicle is currently underperforming at tier VII, and could do with a buff in the present lineups. But if everything moves around and it only gets +2 MM then it will not become magically better, but good games may arrive more often.

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Think about it, how many tanks in t5-7 actually can compete with 400m base view range? Thats fcking insane. AMX getting shafted is normal procedure. I didnt expect anything less. SP1C getting shafted falls into the same category.

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25 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

I find the situation that the 13/75 finds itself in, much more interesting. WG continuing on the scheme of butt-fucking french for no reason.

Just..... you know why. 

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The tier 7 lights that are staying on tier 7 have barely been nerfed, they will be very good. 

The T71 has essentially been changed into the AMX 1375, but a tier lower. 

That new Russian tier 7 is possibly the ugliest tank ever brought into the game.

Overall though really liking the direction for these new light lines. Good changes, they've recognised lights need more HP, more view range and more gun power.  

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