Megumin

So what's the point of (possible) upcoming light tanks changes

77 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, BlackAdder said:

I can work with T6-7-8, but they are expensive as fuck (apcr + food), but ELC was a highlight of the line, ebola gun handling with might APCR and CAMO, balancing IS-3 never was more fun. 

The thing is no tank should be balanced only if you are willing to spend 40-60k per game. Especially not lower triers.

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https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2017/02/20/elc-amx-will-keep-the-90-mm-gun/

 

  • The tank will have two available guns, the main one 75 mm and optional 90mm one.
  • With the 75mm gun the tank’s turret will be able to traverse 360 degrees.
  • With the 90mm gun the tank will only have limited traverse for its turret (as it is now), but the gun penetration value will be adjusted for the new light tank battle tiers (ie +/-2 matchmaking).
  • The 90mm gun will stay available as a variant gun, because it is mounted on one of the prototypes built. (You can go see it in the Saumur tank museum and I heartily recommend it, the thing is awesome)

tWcWG7L.jpg

 

:kreygasm::kreygasm::kreygasm:

Always 60km/h and shoot at 5m playstyle is saved :kappa:

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I would have done 130/180, but whatever. I think it's really interesting actually, you can do a weak gun with a turret or a strong gun with a fixed gun. But then 240 alpha in a tier 6 light which is impossible to hit was already cancerous enough, so losing 240 from a tier 5 should be approximately as infuriating even accounting for the occasional bounces.

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3 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

I would have done 130/180, but whatever. I think it's really interesting actually, you can do a weak gun with a turret or a strong gun with a fixed gun. But then 240 alpha in a tier 6 light which is impossible to hit was already cancerous enough, so losing 240 from a tier 5 should be approximately as infuriating even accounting for the occasional bounces.

It's already a tier 5 brah.

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11 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

I would have done 130/180, but whatever. I think it's really interesting actually, you can do a weak gun with a turret or a strong gun with a fixed gun. But then 240 alpha in a tier 6 light which is impossible to hit was already cancerous enough, so losing 240 from a tier 5 should be approximately as infuriating even accounting for the occasional bounces.

It's a fast tank in trier 5. 130 would be overkill. Hell 240 alpha in trier5mm? This thing will still be broken as fuck. Unless the gun is even more derpy it might be an even bigger seal clubber than before. 

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12 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

120 pen? FFS really?  

It's a regular tier 5, that is  average pen for tier 5 tank. Most the meds are in the 110 - 130 range. 

IMO they shouldn't have bowed to the stats padders, a tier 5 light with regular MM should not have 240m alpha.  This thing will see tier 3s ffs, it's got better alpha than most of the heavies. 

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12 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Maybe not, but that is still better than what happens to Tier 5 in WoWS.

Have they done something? I feel like there wasnt anything really bad with tier 5s on that game, atleast not being in as bad situation as tier 3s are in Wot.

Tier 3s definitely should have +1 mm because even 10wn8 bot beginner can reach to tier 3 in like 20 battles without prem acc. Almost no one with just 20 battles played has no idea how to deal with freaking KV-1 when that guy is playing T-46.

Also atleast on ships you can still do always SOME damage.

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On 2/20/2017 at 4:19 PM, Archaic_One said:

120 pen? FFS really?  

To be fair that isn't too far behind the penetration of the 90mm gun on the BDR G1B tier 5 heavy tank. Plus when firing APCR it's only 5mm less than the BDR's.

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21 hours ago, leggasiini said:

It is balanced for having literally 1k base DPM.

Not really, there are some tier 5 meds that only have like 1.2k DPM with 75mm guns.

Balancing too high alpha with long reloads is how we have such a mess arty and tanks like the 183. 

If they wanted to keep the 90mm it should have been a tier 7 light. 

They've basically just made the best tier 5 TD there, there are like two tier 5 TDs with 240 alpha or better and they are pretty crappy packages to get that alpha, they don't go 60kph, 20 kph backwards with like good traverse rates, like 38 hp/ton, insane camo and good view range. It's even more accurate than the Bathtub is with the 105.

Just slap your 170 pen APCR on and you are golden, an insanely fast and agile TD that no one will be able to out spot.  It's a tier 5 old style Hellcat on steroids. 

 

 

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Without Chaffee level mobility every high tier LT will be unplayable. Seriously, we need LIGHT tanks, not a bit faster mediums.

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After last weekend:

  • Fuck light tanks
  • Fuck light tank gameplay
  • If camo / vision ever becomes ``the norm``, this game will be dead in 6 months (and i will quit in 6 days)

Camo shit is even more RNG as arty of tier 10 TDards, both teams 3 scouts, 5 retards 1 decent, game decided by mm, nice, even arty is not this shit

I hope all light tanks will be so fucking awefull, nobody will play them, and in 2018 we get a hotfix to remove all scouts and all arty, to save the game...

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I do think there's real potential for some serious frustration on open maps. They're keeping the view range way too high, you play a light and get Prok and they have no good lights it's going to be a feast. It's not as much an issue at high tier, because EVERYTHING has monster view range and high tier lights tend to be easier to hit. Were it me making the changes no light tank would have a view range higher than (approximately) any medium of the same tier and lights would be balanced around that requirement. So maybe 370 max at tier 5, 380 at 6, 390 at 7, 400 at 8, etc. -20m across the board would be roughly the standard, 370 for a chaffee or M7, 340 for ELC, and something like the VK which will overperform goes down to 350ish. Bump the HPs or firepower back up if they need compensation. The speed and camo already makes them the best scouts, cranking that specialization too far is how you get this bullshit of heavy tanks on choke point maps trashing the balance.

Most players are too bad to make use of such bias but I can tell you from experimenting with lights lately they can still be disproportionately influential when every shitter and his brother's heavy tank doesn't have 380+ base view range locking down 80% of the map.

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Having ~ 530 effective view range in Chaffee sometimes is broken as fuck. The only way to counter this is a proper map design with bushes crossing 400m+ view lines.

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17 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

After last weekend:

  • Fuck light tanks
  • Fuck light tank gameplay
  • If camo / vision ever becomes ``the norm``, this game will be dead in 6 months (and i will quit in 6 days)

Camo shit is even more RNG as arty of tier 10 TDards, both teams 3 scouts, 5 retards 1 decent, game decided by mm, nice, even arty is not this shit

I hope all light tanks will be so fucking awefull, nobody will play them, and in 2018 we get a hotfix to remove all scouts and all arty, to save the game...

Never knew you were Russian.

 

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19 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

After last weekend:

  • Fuck light tanks
  • Fuck light tank gameplay
  • If camo / vision ever becomes ``the norm``, this game will be dead in 6 months (and i will quit in 6 days)

Camo shit is even more RNG as arty of tier 10 TDards, both teams 3 scouts, 5 retards 1 decent, game decided by mm, nice, even arty is not this shit

I hope all light tanks will be so fucking awefull, nobody will play them, and in 2018 we get a hotfix to remove all scouts and all arty, to save the game...

Whilst I can't completely agree with this, I do think that vision meta is worse than corridor meta.

Old (old) Redshire and magic forrest and crap like that is not good gameplay, it's 1 line Prohk, TD nests with binos and camo nets that you need like 2 to 1 numbers advantage, good HP and complete map control to dig out.

Otherwise you have wounded tanks trying to poke ridges against full HP TDs and these shitters do nothing all game but often squeak out wins just because those facing them can't easily cap, can't easily flank these spots and are low HP because they have actually been playing the game for the last 10 minutes.

And then these guys win the 1 in 10 games like this and then use that as justification to play like that in every single fucking game. 

Vision meta might be more tolerable if WG didn't give shit TD players so many base camping spots that have concealment, elevation and firing lanes over large open spaces.  Digging out Grilles and the like from like the camping red line on mines or like camping TD peninsula on Fjords is such a massive pain in the arse when you have like 3-4 wounded tanks that have fought all game for map control. Just shouldn't happen, all areas behind caps should be crap for camping. 

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Anton “Evilly” Pankov:

Quote

leKpz M41 90mm GF will stay on tier 8 with the same stats

 

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Quote

leKpz M41 90mm GF will stay on tier 8 with the same stats

Best CW tier 8 LT confirmed ? 

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Considering it's a weak Ru 251 at the moment I don't see it as a problem, re-worked tier 8 WZ is better already. 

New M41 will have less pen and alpha, but more DPM and like 15 more hp/ton than the GF. 

So will be fine, the tank needs a buff anyway, most people don't bother playing it outside tier SHs because it's camo is so poor for a light. 

As a regular tier 8 what do you have? 181 pen, 240 alpha, 1100 HP, 400m view range, armour that you can pen with HE and about 2.2k DPM.

Basically a faster, more camo STA-2 with less pen, less HP. 

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Are Lights (in the high tiers) actually faster/more mobile than the faster meds right now?

Ie is there any use to play them over meds?

Aren't low tier lights totally OP? Their stats look really good and if they are actually as maneuverable as they look with the decent guns they seem to get I can't see myself playing MTs at tier V to VII much any more.

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1 hour ago, Jaegaer said:

Are Lights (in the high tiers) actually faster/more mobile than the faster meds right now?

Ie is there any use to play them over meds?

Aren't low tier meds totally OP? Their stats look really good and if they are actually as maneuverable as they look with the decent guns they seem to get I can't see myself playing MTs at tier V to VII much any more.

Yes they are faster (top speeds are around 70-75 kph) and they have like 35 hp/ton up to like 55 hp/ton with improved traverse rates.

They go up the Himmelsdorf hill at like 60 kph, pretty sure no tier 10 med can do that.

Plus they have more view range and camo. 

So they basically trade armour, HP, pen, DPM for extreme mobility, camo and view range. 

Lower tiers not so sure, we haven't got full details. They'll be faster and more agile than most meds, bar maybe the Cromwell but hey should have better handling than that and view range. 

 

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22 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Yes they are faster (top speeds are around 70-75 kph) and they have like 35 hp/ton up to like 55 hp/ton with improved traverse rates.

They go up the Himmelsdorf hill at like 60 kph, pretty sure no tier 10 med can do that.

Plus they have more view range and camo. 

So they basically trade armour, HP, pen, DPM for extreme mobility, camo and view range. 

Lower tiers not so sure, we haven't got full details. They'll be faster and more agile than most meds, bar maybe the Cromwell but hey should have better handling than that and view range. 

 

They will have to really remodel some maps with those hp/ts. Mountain goating will be strong. 

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On 01/03/2017 at 0:36 PM, tajj7 said:

Considering it's a weak Ru 251 at the moment I don't see it as a problem, re-worked tier 8 WZ is better already. 

New M41 will have less pen and alpha, but more DPM and like 15 more hp/ton than the GF. 

So will be fine, the tank needs a buff anyway, most people don't bother playing it outside tier SHs because it's camo is so poor for a light. 

As a regular tier 8 what do you have? 181 pen, 240 alpha, 1100 HP, 400m view range, armour that you can pen with HE and about 2.2k DPM.

Basically a faster, more camo STA-2 with less pen, less HP. 

Also the M41Gf will have a 90mm vs a 76mm for the regular M41 i believe. That's a pretty distinctive advantage.

 

Edit : Just checked all the stats of all the new tier 8 and the wz132 is going to be really strong now. I actually don’t understand.. They are effectively putting it down a tier and they are buffing it in HP, in viewrange and accuracy for just 90 DPM less. Even if they hadn’t change anything it would have been really good just by changing the tier.

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