dualmaster333

Europa Universalis IV

97 posts in this topic

Yes, I'm a few years late to this game but have finally broken through the steep initial learning curve. I had attempted to learn this about a year ago but got frustrated with the huge number of mechanics and no clear idea of what the heck they did. So a week or two ago I watched a tutorial between a new player and a really experienced player which helped me get enough of a grasp to start playing.

20-30 hours later, I'm having quite a bit of fun. I've been a Civ player for quite a while so the game is a significant change. Diplomacy is much deeper and seems a lot more powerful in EU4. There's a lot of ways to isolate or deter your enemies. The combat is not particularly exciting (my stack is bigger than your stack) but there are enough factors that influence the outcome that you have to be pretty careful about where and when you engage. Military conquest is interesting and VERY different from Civ. I'm used to just smashing someone, taking all their land, and moving on to the next one. EU4 really punishes you for doing that with the coalition and aggressive expansion mechanics. You really have to think through what land you want to keep and prepare for that well ahead of a war. Sometimes you have to fight a war without the expectation of even taking any land - I've fought against Burgundy just to force him to release vassals that I can then befriend.

The replay value seems huge on this game. I've tried out a few different starting countries but they have all been in Western Europe. The political climate in other areas of the world are very different and I guess there's even a bunch of different mechanics available elsewhere. I already have several other countries I want to try but it will be quite a while before I get to them.

My first decent length game was with France. I was doing pretty well but was gobbling up land and learned the danger of high aggressive expansion. I got overrun by a central European coalition. I decide to restart another game as France since I'm still learning things and made tons of mistakes on the first round. This time I've managed the aggression penalty pretty well so no coalition but I have just as much land as the first game and also stole London :-D.

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It took two wars to completely smash the English - the second one I started immediately after a massive uprising in England that left him super weak. 100% destruction of his army and navy along with complete occupation of the country. I took London as a nice prize and gave some territory to the Scots. England is a hollow shell. To the east I just finished a second war with Burgundy to break up his alliance, take a few territories, and completely annex Brittany. There was also a war to take Provence's territories in the south and west of France. Unfortunately I couldn't take his last territory because of aggressive expansion modifiers so he has one more territory on the east border.

To the south I am good friends with Castille and the Papal States. Castille actually called me into a fight with Morocco/Tunis/others. I answered the call, did very little to help, and got a lot of good friendship. I do have to watch Castille's power though - they could quickly gobble up Morocco and are already in a personal union with Aragon.

I'm not sure what is next for France. Expanding east into the HRE is a real mess (I don't know anything about HRE mechanics at this point) but I accrue so much aggressive expansion doing that that I have to wait a year or two for each province I take. I'd like to go down and start taking land in North Africa but need to figure out how to get a CB down there.

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You can get CBs from traditions if I recall correctly. Some give you CBs on nations with different official religions or government types. You can also spy and create one.

Don't forget to mess with the HRE. You don't want the emperor to get too powerful. You don't need to conquer, you can vassalize and break apart the larger HRE member nations to make wars there easier. Get claims on provinces and those wars if I recall correctly will reduce the aggressive expansion modifiers. Granted, I hadn't played the game in several expansions so you may want to look into this stuff.

 

Edit: Also fuck you, now I want to play EU4 but can't, ya bastid.

Edited by MetGreDKo

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Congrats! Glad you're enjoying yourself, I've certainly gotten several thousand hours of fun from it.

Getting a CB in North Africa could be a bit of a pain since you can't attack Aragon. Seeing as how early it is, you might even be able to get into colonization of west africa before Portugal/Castille take all the land - from there you'll have a pretty easy time "enlightening" the nations in the interior. Otherwise, I wouldn't really recommend no-CBing and expanding into North Africa - the Berber nations there take a ton of administrative power to core.

Depending on how things go, you could look forward to a war with Genoa. Taking their Crimean or Anatolian holdings (assuming they still have them) will give you a lot of expansion opportunities. Taking Genoa itself will also give you a huge amount of money through its trade, although the AE will be insane.

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13 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Congrats! Glad you're enjoying yourself, I've certainly gotten several thousand hours of fun from it.

Getting a CB in North Africa could be a bit of a pain since you can't attack Aragon. Seeing as how early it is, you might even be able to get into colonization of west africa before Portugal/Castille take all the land - from there you'll have a pretty easy time "enlightening" the nations in the interior. Otherwise, I wouldn't really recommend no-CBing and expanding into North Africa - the Berber nations there take a ton of administrative power to core.

Depending on how things go, you could look forward to a war with Genoa. Taking their Crimean or Anatolian holdings (assuming they still have them) will give you a lot of expansion opportunities. Taking Genoa itself will also give you a huge amount of money through its trade, although the AE will be insane.

Yeah, now that I think about it I think their culture adds core cost as well as their national idea (what I meant earlier for how to get CBs, forgot the word for it). Best leaving these off until later when he can get the core cost reductions. Besides, France does have other things to worry about.

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16 minutes ago, MetGreDKo said:

Edit: Also fuck you, now I want to play EU4 but can't, ya bastid.

:-D

10 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Congrats! Glad you're enjoying yourself, I've certainly gotten several thousand hours of fun from it.

Getting a CB in North Africa could be a bit of a pain since you can't attack Aragon. Seeing as how early it is, you might even be able to get into colonization of west africa before Portugal/Castille take all the land - from there you'll have a pretty easy time "enlightening" the nations in the interior. Otherwise, I wouldn't really recommend no-CBing and expanding into North Africa - the Berber nations there take a ton of administrative power to core.

Depending on how things go, you could look forward to a war with Genoa. Taking their Crimean or Anatolian holdings (assuming they still have them) will give you a lot of expansion opportunities. Taking Genoa itself will also give you a huge amount of money through its trade, although the AE will be insane.

Interesting idea with Genoa, I'll take a look at it. I can probably manufacture some CB against them (trade dispute?) and taking some territory that is not western Europe would be really nice. Plus I'm France so I really should form a Foreign Legion. I also have to check - someone in the northern Italy area got excommunicated so taking their land only gets 50% AE.

My economy seems pretty solid for the moment (I earn positive even with full military maintenance). I'd like to continue picking away at provinces in the English Channel because that trade node seems pretty lucrative. I guess I'll just slowly continue to expand east as the AE settles down.

I also have no idea how expansion/colony stuff works but I'll be heading that tech direction the next chance I get. 

 

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Meiou and taxes or rito :frenchy:

 

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Austria didn't get the Burgundian Inheritance so its somewhat safer to start looking at HRE territories, depending on Austria's allies. Castile will probably rival you when they inherit Aragon unless you have over 80 trust iirc. Anyway you're doing pretty well at this point, I'd just keep playing and experiment, there are certain events that are tricky to manage/manipulate until you know how they work.

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7 hours ago, dualmaster333 said:

Yes, I'm a few years late to this game but have finally broken through the steep initial learning curve. I had attempted to learn this about a year ago but got frustrated with the huge number of mechanics and no clear idea of what the heck they did. So a week or two ago I watched a tutorial between a new player and a really experienced player which helped me get enough of a grasp to start playing.

20-30 hours later, I'm having quite a bit of fun. I've been a Civ player for quite a while so the game is a significant change. Diplomacy is much deeper and seems a lot more powerful in EU4.

I have ~650 EUIV  hrs on Steam. I would say the biggest difference in the game from CIV, aside from the real-time nature is that you feel like you are leading a nation rather than a collection of cities.

Paradox have done an amazing job over the years of fleshing out pretty much every facet of the game (in the basegame and expansion -- lmk if you want any tips on which ones to pick up).

For Youtube / Twitch I'd recommend DDRJake; he made his name going for crazy achievements and now is a Junior dev on the game.

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I don't think I played the Teutonic order since EU 3. I'll have to give them a whirl.

 

Last game I played, a while ago, was Portugal. Took a failed multiplayer game for me to give colonizing a go. Hadn't done it since early in EU3 but I ended up making it work: http://imgur.com/a/a8Pow

Ended up owning almost all of the Americas minus a dozen or so provinces. Spanked Spain a little towards the end. Started with my helping Spain against France, using France to help against Spain, using Austria to help against France, helping everyone against Austria. Don't recall if it was this or another game where I extended the end time to something ridiculous and just continued, gobbling up Africa for the little boost in manpower since they were easy conquests and upping the wars against the HRE. Didn't take long what ever game that was for me to cripple the major players. My play was by no means stellar but I ended up really enjoying the style of play Portugal has. Just wished the colonies would send armies to help out in Europe a little.

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I continue to have little idea of what I'm doing!

fxOCA4V.png

So I looked at cleaning up Provence's one remaining province to wipe them off the map. Huh....why does Austria want to fight me when I do that? Oh, they are the Curia controller and are defending HRE land. Alright let's do this. Well, 80k manpower later and Austria is completely overrun along with a few minor countries. I was peacing out the minors along the way but not really taking much land because of AE modifiers. I did have to crush Genoa along the way as @Rexxie suggested. Unfortunately it didn't let me take any of their Crimean lands because they said I couldn't core it? I did take Chios and now have a few useless islands off the coast of Turkey that will probably be overrun with rebels soon. I also decided to force vassal Provence (instead of taking their one territory) as well as Lorraine. This means I have two perfectly useless vassals who hate me and are chewing up two diplomatic relations and may never get annexed into my territory. Seems like vassaling your war targets isn't a great idea.

On the good side, Austria is trashed (I even gave Venice a few territories back) and I made a ton of money along the way. I have 2300 in the bank but don't really know what to do with it.

I also went another quick round with England to grab a little more trade power in the English Channel. Easy war. I gave Scotland a few territories because we're super friendly.

I picked up some Exploration ideas so now I have an explorer and colonist and need to figure out how they work. It looks like Portugal has already started down the west coast of Africa.

I'll probably just keep the wars going every couple of years to beat up neighbors, take money, and slowly expand.

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I think your coring range is equal to your colonization range - I didn't think about it, but this early in the game you might not have the range to quite reach the crimea. Now that you own those islands you can reach of course, but it looks like you've got your hands full now! Having those islands near Turkey could help in the future if you want to fabricate a claim on the ottomans, but with Austria, Poland, and Hungary all being quite weak there may not be a moment to strike for a long time.

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You prolly wont find any use for colonizing quite yet, but as France you have quite the large room for error.

Keep focusing on europe for a hundred years more and you can shift your focus elsewhere.

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Oh, beware. Ottomans end up a real bitch in the 1500s to early 1600s as Muslim units are statistically better than their western equivalents, unless they changed things. Just keep the HRE fractured, keep expanding and you'll be fine.

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I messed around with exploration a bit. Given the limited colonial range at this point there isn't much option to do overseas stuff yet. Unfortunately I already unlocked the exploration idea so I'm stuck with it. Is there any value to landing some troops in the New World to explore it? I can make contact with all the natives and such but it doesn't seem like I can do much with them.

I was thinking that with all my money I could do a big infrastructure build. I don't really know what buildings are useful though.

I also have to learn the trade system a little bit better. Since I'm gaining a lot more power in the English Channel node, it seems like I might be best off changing my primary node to the channel and then steering trade over there (being an end node and all that).

 

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6 hours ago, dualmaster333 said:

I messed around with exploration a bit. Given the limited colonial range at this point there isn't much option to do overseas stuff yet. Unfortunately I already unlocked the exploration idea so I'm stuck with it. Is there any value to landing some troops in the New World to explore it? I can make contact with all the natives and such but it doesn't seem like I can do much with them.

I was thinking that with all my money I could do a big infrastructure build. I don't really know what buildings are useful though.

I also have to learn the trade system a little bit better. Since I'm gaining a lot more power in the English Channel node, it seems like I might be best off changing my primary node to the channel and then steering trade over there (being an end node and all that).

 

You can drop an idea group and get 50% of the invested points back but for colonization I would recommend going south to Africa -- colonize near the Mali and beat them up for their gold & mines. There's also trade centers around ivory coast and the Cape of Good Hope that are good for steering trade. And later if you find that the Ottomans are directing too much trade up though Egypt instead of around Africa you could go further up the eastern side of Africa.

That is... if you care about that playstyle -- after grabbing Mali, as France you are better off loading up on MIL ideas and beating up Spain and Portugal. Then once the Shadow Kingdom fires and Italy leaves the HRE there's a bunch more easy land go blob up. Then you can punch Austria (or whoever is the current Emperor) in the face.

If you have the El Dorado expansion then you can send your explorers on missions to find the Fountain of Youth and other stuff.

For infrastructure you want:

1. Forts to cover your territory such that at least every border province has one or borders a province that has one. Better to put them in the mountains and rebellious areas.

2. Tax buildings are generally always a must grab

3. Manufacturies might not have the best ROI but are very slot efficient. (note: you can develop provinces with monarch points (aka mana) and unlock more slots). And down the line they are good for Institution spread. Upping the production of high value trade goods is a good idea.

4. Barracks/Training Fields are must have unless you go w/ the Quantity Idea or have a ton of mercenary cost reduction (iirc in the next patch manpower will be slower to recover)

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On 2017. 01. 26. at 8:51 PM, dualmaster333 said:

The combat is not particularly exciting (my stack is bigger than your stack) but there are enough factors that influence the outcome that you have to be pretty careful about where and when you engage.

not really though, a mountain/river crossing, good generals, tech advantage, unit pips, and the right combination of national ideas+mil idea groups can really pack a punch

you can stack defensive ideas' +15% morale with france's +20% morale from traditions which is pretty damn strong, and then throw in offensive or quality. And don't forget policies - as something like Sweden/Milan/Italy you can go Innovative+quality for +20% infantry combat ability

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Well I made a little more progress over the weekend. Expansion feels pretty slow though.

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There was another war with the English punching bags. I grabbed a few territories and forced them to release Cornwall before diplo vassaling Cornwall. So all of southern England is mine and most of the rest is in the hands of our Scottish friends. At some point I should probably just get rid of England (I'm kind of hoping the Scots handle it for me).

Of course, coalitions against me have come and gone. Austria was in it for a while but then I got them to like me enough to leave just in time for me to declare war. They're still head of the HRE but I was able to declare on Nevers which is in the coalition but not in the HRE so Austria wasn't dragged in to it. I also got kind of lucky and have Bohemia in a personal union. They aren't worth much but act as a nice distraction. Anyways, I took on a coalition of everything west of the Wesser with the Scots and Savoy at my back. We beat them up pretty badly. Unfortunately, with the War Score mechanic even though I was overrunning all their land, I could only claim a couple provinces. And since they were in a coalition I couldn't even peace out a bunch of them separately for cash gains. Now I have a truce with them for a while before I can go do it again. It just seems like it will take forever to push through this mass of tiny little countries. I guess I need to find other people to fight? Maybe I can go beat up on Denmark.

The good news is I took Holland in the last war and now have two thirds of the trade power in the English channel. At some point I might make more money by moving my primary trade node to London and steering all trade to the English Channel.

I also got called into a war by Lithuania so I'm technically fighting Muscovy+Austria+friends. If you aren't the war leader, though, it doesn't seem worthwhile to fight much because you can't specify any gains. So right now I'm sitting in France with zero army maintenance unless Austria decides to head my way (I even sieged down an Austrian province on my border with a no-maintenance cannon stack).

I've been doing a little bit of colonizing in the Caribbean. Once you actually have the colonies up I guess it contributes decently to your economy? I haven't really looked at the numbers yet...

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6 minutes ago, dualmaster333 said:

I also got called into a war by Lithuania so I'm technically fighting Muscovy+Austria+friends. If you aren't the war leader, though, it doesn't seem worthwhile to fight much because you can't specify any gains. So right now I'm sitting in France with zero army maintenance unless Austria decides to head my way (I even sieged down an Austrian province on my border with a no-maintenance cannon stack).

I've been doing a little bit of colonizing in the Caribbean. Once you actually have the colonies up I guess it contributes decently to your economy? I haven't really looked at the numbers yet...

With the Cossacks expansion you can flag provinces of interest & if your war participation is high enough then the warleader will/may? give you provinces in the peace deal (but the expansion, which is really good overall, also gives you Estates which are a pain). There's also the whole Trust / Favour mechanism but I think as long as you answer Call-To-Arms and don't peace out early you should do well there.

For colonies I don't think they make a whole lot of money directly (esp factoring the coin you need shell out to establish them and once they form a colonial nation). Where it gets juicy is with trade -- control the region and you get to control which path the trade uses. Then each trade node the goods go through the total value is increased (in one of most recent Paradox MPs they got Portgual up to 1k ducats a month -- they would give him trade power in return for subsidies).

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if you have Cossacks DLC, you can mark provinces as vital interest and your war allies will transfer occupation and potentially even cede them to you in peace deals

 

edit: rip

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Well as I am wont to do with this type of game, I haven't "finished" one yet. I played a second round as France and was actually able to be friendly with Burgundy. So I took over the Iberian peninsula along with southern Italy/Sicily. I got bored with it when it was time to start slowly punching through HRE lands. Expanding in two different areas is great - you can keep a lot more wars and territorial gain going without AE screwing you.

Then I played 50-100 years as the Ottomans which seems super easy. Europe doesn't care when you gobble up Sunni land and Sunni nations don't give a crap when you gobble up Christian nations. Plus you have the economy and military size to fight almost continuously.

Yesterday I started a round as Muskovy. It was pretty straight forward to begin - beat up Novgorod in a couple wars to take all their land, annex your vassals, and gobble up the other little guys near you. Then I wanted to expand into Europe by taking on Poland-Lithuania, but they went ahead and allied Denmark-Sweden-Norway along with some other minors. Enough that I really couldn't push west at all.

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So instead I got involved in the Steppes. I used one of the hordes (Nogai) to help take down the other two. The land is pretty garbage but at least I'm expanding with ease. I was held up on tech because the Renaissance takes a while to spread, but I finally got converted and am picking up some key techs and ideas.

I decided to try Humanist ideas which seem helpful with military expansion. I have also picked up defensive ideas for the military boost. From reading a little bit it sounds like religious ideas might be nice (convert all those heathens in the steppes). Muscovite ideas also seem great - I just picked up the unit cap increase so my 47k army will soon be 90k.

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I've been preparing for the big showdown with Poland and will soon kick off a big old European war. I have the Livonian and Teutonic orders allied along with England who will all accept the call against Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Lithuania, Moldavia, and Brandenburg. I've actually been constructing some forts with the key ones being from the White Sea to the Baltic. I did a "test" war to see how hard it would be for me to take the big alliance and Sweden/Denmark just wandered across the entire north side of Muskovy. The forts should make it easy to deal with that. I also hope the Teutons and Livonians take the brunt of the war while the English navy and army makes life hard for Denmark and friends. Then I can conserve manpower while rolling west.

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Pretty much all of those nations are fairly easy early on. Muscovy is really fun though. One of my favorites. I also enjoy Austria (also easy, just more politiking).

Because of this thread I started my own game. Did two games. First as Portugal when I came across the bullshit treaty of tordesillas. Disabled El Dorado and went about starting a new game. Never used random new world before so I enabled that. I also never did custom nations so I basically created a custom Ethiopia. Never played an African nation besides Morocco. For this play through I basically just gave Ethiopia a new name (Saiquel) and different national ideas to more suit my prospective play style.

I came across yet more mechanics changes which pissed me off, and the unfortunate users of WoTLabs discord got to see me bitching about them. Ships no longer prevent movement across straits & if you're besieging a fort and the AI goes to relieve it, attacking you - the besieging gets labeled the attack and receives all terrain penalties which is fucking moronic. I then go to abuse it against the AI but the AI receives no penalties even though both provinces list the same penalties I received when it did it to me. PI sure knows how to fuck up their own games and if they keep it up with the stupid shit I won't be grabbing their other games.

Anyway I ended up playing more passive than I usually do. At this point in my game - I continued past the end date - I'm potentially at the point of no return. Brief history:

Early on the Ottomans & Russia had a dual alliance and dominated everyone. That waned when Western & Central Europe allied and took them down a peg individually in a few wars. France became dominant taking me into a personal union as a lesser partner. After I broke away France started to wane a little as Alsace & Venice grew. Alsace inherited some larger central Europe nation then as Germany inherited Venice. Russia inherited Great Britain and the two allied.

At this point Germany has Russia in a personal union as a lesser partner with no desire for liberty and the two are going to be extremely difficult to break in war. I'm working towards challenging them directly having signed a bunch of alliances. I go to check out who would join an offensive war against them but as everyone feels threatened by me, few will do so.

Screens: http://imgur.com/a/Q0jiA

Screens will show the diplomatic lay out and the relevant ledgers. Recommendations?

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2168....shouldn't you be fighting on the moon by now?

I've continued the same campaign as above. As Russia I've had to learn quite a bit about states and territories, culture groups, religion and missionaries, and coring costs. I've reached the point where I can beat up on pretty much anyone I want. I have top army and am only at half my force limit. It seems pretty cost prohibitive to have a larger army and the benefit during wars doesn't seem substantial?

Anywho, picking up from my previous post. The Polish alliance was looking too strong so I ditched the Teutonic/Livonian Orders as allies. I pushed south into the Caucuses to get a nice strong defensive position in preparation for a future Ottoman war. I also gobbled up Livonian territory and forced Riga and Georgia to be vassals. Then I hopped on a dogpile to easily pick up Genoa's Crimean holdings.

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I went searching for new and better allies to deal with Poland and ended up in an alliance with Great Britain, Austria, and Hungary. I was gearing up for another war when I noticed the Ottomans were busy fighting the Mamaluks. So I pulled in Austria and Hungary to take them down a notch. That made it a fairly easy war. I made a mistake though - I should have forced them to release Crimea and then taken that land in another war. Instead I took a bunch of the Crimea but also took all of the mountainous territory to the west of Georgia. Taking the mountains will make the next war much easier.

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I spent a while at peace to consolidate my holdings and catch up on tech. Institution spread is rough for Russia. I was getting Printing Press penalties before I had colonialism. I need to understand how to encourage institution spread better. As I brooded over how to deal with the Poland-Denmark power block, I received some good news: I now lead a Personal Union with Austria? Ha! Enable easy mode! But then it got even easier! The Ottomans were feeling frisky and declared war on Poland. So I watched for a year or two while they bled. Then I launched the largest European war yet. On the other side was Poland, Lithuania, Moldavia, Brandenburg, Denmark, and Norway (high Swedish liberty desire kept them out of the way). I had Austria, Hungary, Georgia, and of course Mighty Russia. The war for my own personal greed left Europe with 600k fewer men. I couldn't do much in the Baltic because of the Danish navy, but I managed to white peace Denmark (who had dissolved their alliance with Poland). I completely overran Poland and Lithuania and then took a bunch of land in the peace deal.

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After a period of peace, my truce with Denmark expired so I kicked off a war for control of the Baltic Sea. This time I brought in the Brits so we would have the naval advantage. Once again Sweden avoided fights and we cut down the Danish navy. Actually most of the naval work was done by me and Austria (who inherited Burgundy and now has a sizable fleet). I took Finland along with some of the strategic islands in the Baltic. I'm now the dominant naval power in that sea! Also, this encouraged Sweden to declare independence, so I'll probably have an easy war to take more of their land in the future.

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Immediately after the Baltic War, I noticed the Nogai were once again beating up on the Persians. They were getting a little stronger than I liked plus Russia has permanent claims on some of the territory they held. It ended up being a super easy war to take another chunk of the steppes.

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I picked up quite a bit of AE during the Baltic war so I need to expand outside of Europe for a little while. I was prepping for another Ottoman war when they decided to declare on Poland once again! So I sat back and watched them bleed about 100k manpower. Meanwhile I picked up Wallachia as a vassal so I am ready for another rumble. They have a 100k army which is almost as much as me but only 40k manpower behind it while I have 150k. Plus Austria :-D

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