BlackAdder

AMD (Ry)Zen

234 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Folterknecht said:

Kabylake - 4 cores; Hasewell-E/Broadwell-E 6-10 cores. And I put edit into "" as - english isn't my native language and I'm just too lazy to write an elaborate explanation of why I find it stupid, that you focus on the 4 core part, while I list a whole range of CPUs up to 10 cores. I know selective editing and halfbaked commentating are en vogue these days, but we 're talking tech here.

 

Stupid fanboyism is absolutly not my cup of tea and I don't respond in a positive way to it.

Same goes for Hype especially when it comes to AMD (historical reasons) - one of the reasons I find many vids on pornhub more usefull, than the stuff LTT tends to produce on a semi regular basis ("Ryzen available at 22 feb!" - omits the thing about preorder, continues to pretend being on amphetamins or something while talking AMD promo).

--------

And I edited this post two times - the new thoughts below the "edit:"

 

So Hasewell-E/Broadwell-E 8/10 core chips can OC to 5.2Ghz at 1.3V?

Fanboyism? My main gaming PC still has a 2500K. You're the one talking shit about Ryzen friend.

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6 hours ago, AkulaV said:

So Hasewell-E/Broadwell-E 8/10 core chips can OC to 5.2Ghz at 1.3V?

Fanboyism? My main gaming PC still has a 2500K. You're the one talking shit about Ryzen friend.

 

Can or can't doesn't matter, 1.9V is too damn ridiculous. And i expect chip dying on long LN2 sessions. 

 

Nevertheless impressive stuff for Ryzen, I can't wait to see more benchmarks and real world tests. This thing could bring prices down, let's not forget 7700K would be a nice purchase for 200 bucks. 

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7 hours ago, AkulaV said:

So Hasewell-E/Broadwell-E 8/10 core chips can OC to 5.2Ghz at 1.3V?

 

ok - from now on I just assume your mental capabilities are of somewhat limited nature. I didn't write that.

 

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btw - the X370 boards seem to be priced - pre launch at least - pretty high compared to Z170 while offering not more features according to this list

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02/amd-ryzen-erste-mainboards-preis/

 

Starting at 170€ for the cheapest one your are looking at a ~50€ premium compared to the cheapest Z170 boards that support SLI.

 

These prices incl 19% tax.

 

edit:

 

rechecked prices myself - jep at least 50€ price difference.

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28 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

btw - the X370 boards seem to be priced - pre launch at least - pretty high compared to Z170 while offering not more features according to this list

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02/amd-ryzen-erste-mainboards-preis/

 

Starting at 170€ for the cheapest one your are looking at a ~50€ premium compared to the cheapest Z170 boards that support SLI.

 

These prices incl 19% tax.

 

edit:

 

rechecked prices myself - jep at least 50€ price difference.

 

They hoping to milk Ryzen early adopters :D but if i remember correctly Bxxx boards are the same without multiGPU. 

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3 minutes ago, BlackAdder said:

They hoping to milk Ryzen early adopters :D but if i remember correctly Bxxx boards are the same without multiGPU. 

X370: 16x/0 or 8x/8x

B350: 16x and the 2nd slot 4x

 

The problem is that people interested in multi purpose workstations (GPU, NVMe, sound cards, capture card ...) will find these 8 core chips starting at 330$ a great offer, but the moment they try to fit all their needs into the limited amount of PCIe lanes, they are back at X99. AMD missed a chance here imo, if they don't anounce a FX-chipset soon.

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4 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

X370: 16x/0 or 8x/8x

B350: 16x and the 2nd slot 4x

 

The problem is that people interested in multi purpose workstations (GPU, NVMe, sound cards, capture card ...) will find these 8 core chips starting at 330$ a great offer, but the moment they try to fit all their needs into the limited amount of PCIe lanes, they are back at X99. AMD missed a chance here imo, if they don't anounce a FX-chipset soon.

Keep spreading bullshit. Multiple boards with two 16x and three 16x slots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5v4hqt/overview_ryzen_cpu_am4_mainboard_lineup_updated/

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13 minutes ago, AkulaV said:

Keep spreading bullshit. Multiple boards with two 16x and three 16x slots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5v4hqt/overview_ryzen_cpu_am4_mainboard_lineup_updated/

Just because the board has multiple PCIe-slots that are capable of x16 speed, doesn't mean the CPU has enough PCIe-lanes to support these slots at full speed.

Unless there is a PLX-chip installed on the board to provide more PCIe-lanes, there could be 15x PCIe-slots that could potentially do x16 speed on these boards, they just won't run at that speed because the CPU doesn't support it.

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4 minutes ago, Daezara said:

Just because the board has multiple PCIe-slots that are capable of x16 speed, doesn't mean the CPU has enough PCIe-lanes to support these slots at full speed.

Unless there is a PLX-chip installed on the board to provide more PCIe-lanes, there could be 15x PCIe-slots that could potentially do x16 speed on these boards, they just won't run at that speed because the CPU doesn't support it.

"AMD has mentioned two full x16 (Gen3) lanes for GPUs. AIBs can add additional lanes through a PLX chip but that would add to the cost. X370 features full overclocking support with a very sophisticated GUI that will allow the best overclock tools and experiences."

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7 minutes ago, AkulaV said:

"AMD has mentioned two full x16 (Gen3) lanes for GPUs. AIBs can add additional lanes through a PLX chip but that would add to the cost. X370 features full overclocking support with a very sophisticated GUI that will allow the best overclock tools and experiences."

Link to that source? Because non of my sources say that, they are stating one x16 for the GPU, x4 for an m.2 ssd and another x4 for the chipset.

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30 minutes ago, AkulaV said:

First of all it's wccftech, not quite the most reliable source on the internet.

Beyond that, the quote is from a part were they are talking about the X370 chipset. They are saying that on X370 boards, there will be two lanes which are capable of PCIe x16 Gen3 speed. What i guess they are meaning here, is two SLOTS capable of x16 speed. Because two LANES that are connected via pcie LANES? Makes no fucking sense.

Additionally they don't mention the CPUs in that part at all except for them having an unlocked multiplier.

And according to most sources i found, for example Caseking and a LTT video directly from the AMD press event they are talking about 24 PCIe lanes.

(yes LTT is a lot of "show", but in tech specs he is pretty much always on point)

 

https://www.caseking.de/en/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-3-6-ghz-summit-ridge-socket-am4-boxed-hpam-116.html

 

video @ 1:14

 

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Yea you're right, but let's see what it means in real world tests. I'm sure AMD didn't gimp their CPU with proper Crossfire support from the start.

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9 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

btw - the X370 boards seem to be priced - pre launch at least - pretty high compared to Z170 while offering not more features according to this list

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02/amd-ryzen-erste-mainboards-preis/

 

Starting at 170€ for the cheapest one your are looking at a ~50€ premium compared to the cheapest Z170 boards that support SLI.

 

These prices incl 19% tax.

 

edit:

 

rechecked prices myself - jep at least 50€ price difference.

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This is the point of Ryzen and Polaris right here, but you're still going to dispute it regardless.

Not to mention you'd still be good with a high end machine on a B350 board which can OC unlike the H170. I am literally staring at these B350 boards and the only difference that's noticeable to me is a subtraction of 3 USB ports which I never use anyway. So I paid $189 instead of $110 Z170 vs H170 for over clocking and 3 usb ports. B350 boards are anywhere from $80-$120 in the USA atm.

 

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24 minutes ago, _Assad said:

cNcfwxrhMqVbIJODZiaZPqt0cWLSDka1fle8Bo9j

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This is the point of Ryzen and Polaris right here, but you're still going to dispute it regardless.

Not to mention you'd still be good with a high end machine on a B350 board which can OC unlike the H170. I am literally staring at these B350 boards and the only difference that's noticeable to me is a subtraction of 3 USB ports which I never use anyway. So I paid $189 instead of $110 Z170 vs H170 for over clocking and 3 usb ports. B350 boards are anywhere from $80-$120 in the USA atm.

Just wait for Vega... AMD is really on right patch regardless of IPC and base clock, this thing will shake up market.

 

Also AMD shares are ~45% up since last month!

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6 minutes ago, BlackAdder said:

Just wait for Vega... AMD is really on right patch regardless of IPC and base clock, this thing will shake up market.

 

Also AMD shares are ~45% up since last month!

I agree and I still think that if the Ryzen CPUs even only came to within 85% of the performance of the contemporary Intel CPUs that they'd still be worth it in one way or another.

The point of the picture is summing up what AMD is "trying" to do. Make it so you can buy a PC like that; which can probably run most games right now at high or ultra on 1080p 60fps on a CPU that for the "low/entry level" part of R7 should be pretty good even with the lack of real world benchmarks, if it's atleast a degree better than the 7600K at worst then it'll be worth it. Or you can buy a 6900K with no computer at all.

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1 hour ago, _Assad said:

This is the point of Ryzen and Polaris right here,

yes - and?

Quote

but you're still going to dispute it regardless.

nope - and I didn't in the past. It was a sure bet that AMD will be undercutting Intel price wise. The question was by how much!

Quote

Not to mention you'd still be good with a high end machine on a B350 board which can OC unlike the H170. I am literally staring at these B350 boards and the only difference that's noticeable to me is a subtraction of 3 USB ports which I never use anyway. So I paid $189 instead of $110 Z170 vs H170 for over clocking and 3 usb ports. B350 boards are anywhere from $80-$120 in the USA atm.

Good for you that you can get away with a B350.Saves you a lot of money

 

I clearly outlined where I think AMD missed a market segment by not offering more bandwith/connectivity in form of PCIe lanes (fuck PLX chips) than Intels mainstream platform does and you obviously don't fall into it. Lisa Sue explicitly mentined content creators in her presentation several times and how Ryzen is the right product for them and I have to partly disagree with her and that marketing line.

On Intels side of things this stinginess and misleading marketing when it comes to bandwith and lanes was a major point why people weren't that happy with them (outside of the RGB gamer and office crowd).

And now we have AMD also getting stingy when it comes to that, while their marketing at the same time implies something different. In the past AMD had their FX chipset, I'm not the only one who doesn't see X370 as a full-fledged replacement. And sadly there was no annoucment or even a hint of something in that line - though the naming scheme leaves room on top, if you follow historic AMD conventions.

 

P.S.:

 

I wouldn't mention a 180-200$ starting point for boards that support 40 PCIe lanes. It's the same as Intels X99 and these boards are much more complicated to design and produce, though dual channel with max 4 slots is simpler than Intels quad channel by a great margin.

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board tour

interesting fact: this one supports old AM3(+) coolers out of the box

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First OC results for the 1700 ... around 4 GHz on the good boards. Small sample size ofc atm - still for 330$ a very good deal.

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I saw all these posts on Facebook saying Ryzen set a world record score in Cinebench R15 with a score of 2449.  Is it really a world record if Intel's best CPUs (Xeon E7) scored 8177 on Cinebench without overclocking? I can put two of them in an ATX motherboard board with multiple PCI Express 3.0 X16 slots.

 

I'm hoping AMD causes Intel to lower their high end CPU prices.  My first high end gaming PC was a dual Athlon XP 1900+ CPUs on a Supermicro workstation board. I eventually upgraded them to dual 2400+ XMP's. I think only Falcon 4 and one of the versions of quake fully supported 2 CPUs at the time I built it.  The Photoshop performance was amazing though.

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4 hours ago, Kitten said:

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-gaming-benchamrks/

 

some supposed benches from a Chinese site. Interesting results. In an interesting twist, supposedly Ryzen gets better frames in WoT than the Intel counterpart... Looks like people finally won't be gimping themselves with AMD CPUs anymore :) 

2 FPS isn't a huge difference in WoT.  I've seen a bigger difference between WoT benchmarks with different Nvidia drvier versions or different case temps.

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2 hours ago, Bavor said:

2 FPS isn't a huge difference in WoT.  I've seen a bigger difference between WoT benchmarks with different Nvidia drvier versions or different case temps.

You're missing the point -- AMD CPUs are no longer gimped in WoT, like they have been for the entire lifespan of the game thus far  :) 

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3 hours ago, Kitten said:

You're missing the point -- AMD CPUs are no longer gimped  :) 

FTFY

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According to my local deal scraper, R1700 is cheaper by 300 HRK or ~40eur (45 trumps) than 6800K, on top of that you get cheaper MBO. I think it's a fair deal (for new CPU). I would be hyped if i don't have other plans (like fancy car, and improving my business) 

Just a few more day until someone like Anandtech reviews them. 

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