BlackAdder

AMD (Ry)Zen

234 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, Kitten said:

You're missing the point -- AMD CPUs are no longer gimped in WoT, like they have been for the entire lifespan of the game thus far  :) 

No you are missing the point.  AMD CPUs haven't been gimped in WoT since 9.15 when they added multi core support.  Since 9.15 WoT has been limited by the GPU more than the CPU and I've proven it in benchmark tests before.

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2 hours ago, Bavor said:

No you are missing the point.  AMD CPUs haven't been gimped in WoT since 9.15 when they added multi core support.  Since 9.15 WoT has been limited by the GPU more than the CPU and I've proven it in benchmark tests before.

But the current AMD CPUs have been shit for years now really.

Fingers crossed they can do something right this time... Being stuck with Intel is kinda meh...

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I'm interested in seeing if AMD was cheating on some benchmarks.  The RyZen motherboards that the reviewers received have special benchmark settings in the UEFI/BIOS.

OWGWH3u.jpg

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52 minutes ago, Bavor said:

I'm interested in seeing if AMD was cheating on some benchmarks.  The RyZen motherboards that the reviewers received have special benchmark settings in the UEFI/BIOS.

source please!

 

I may be able to get some answers related to this.

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3 hours ago, Bavor said:

I'm interested in seeing if AMD was cheating on some benchmarks.  The RyZen motherboards that the reviewers received have special benchmark settings in the UEFI/BIOS.

OWGWH3u.jpg

 

Ok - here is the conversation I just had with "Dave" from Techpowerup.com who is doing the motherboard reviews over there regarding this issue (with his permission).

 

7700K_Delid_TechPowerUp_Forums_-_2017-03-01_23.20.06.jpg

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6 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

source please!

 

I may be able to get some answers related to this.

 

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On 2/28/2017 at 0:42 AM, Kitten said:

You're missing the point -- AMD CPUs are no longer gimped in WoT, like they have been for the entire lifespan of the game thus far  :) 

Can't recall when exactly, but at some point in the last year and a half or so, wargaming pushed out a patch that helped immensely on my AMD CPU. (FX-8320)

I used to play at maxed graphics and was CPU limited (single threaded shitty performance) to around 30-40 FPS with the mods I ran. Whenever that one patch that improved shit (unsure if added multithreading or just fixed some shit) dropped, I've been at 60 FPS vsync ever since.

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The memory controller and some BIOSes seem to be pretty iffy. If you build a Ryzen system now update your BIOS frequently (currently Asus seems to have the most mature ones atm) and buy Single Rank Dual Channel Kits (fuck that shit I thought nonsense like this lies 10+years in the past).

 

  • ECC Support? no one really seems to know and AMD contradicts itself constantly atm
  • go for 2 stick instead of 4 sticks (latency issues)

 

Edit:

According to Jay2cents - board partners got around 3 weeks to create a BIOS :eww:. If you can wait don't buy now, if you don't want to play beta tester.

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Very extensive anandtech write up. 

The AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive on 1800X, 1700X and 1700

Quote

AMD's ability to produce Zen is astounding given its size (both AMD and the Zen core), even with the experience and skill under the hood. Some will say that rehiring Jim Keller was a master stroke, however given our interview with Dr. Su it is clear that having the nous to enable a large CPU team with confidence, lofty goals, and a bucketload of talented engineers are all parts of a very complicated puzzle as well. When AMD started out on the Zen journey, investors and customers were apprehensive at power point slides: it was only when they had silicon in hand did they believe AMD's claims in performance gain.

The CPU has a traditional uArch and does well, especially compared to last generation AMD, and a new high-perf core will be a feather in their cap. We see a lot of benchmark results where AMD is clearly equal or above Intel's HEDT parts in both ST and MT. However there are a few edge cases where AMD is lacking behind 10-20% still, even to Broadwell. These edge cases are difficult to anticipate, and can stem from unoptimized code. One of the benefits of Intel's big R&D juggernaut is the ability to process those edge cases, through prefetch, memory algorithms, and extensive testing. So despite the best will, there's still a large element to having a substantial budget to hire 300+ more engineers to cater for that, which is something AMD wasn't able for Zen or Ryzen.

But Senior Engineer Mike Clark says he knows where the easy gains are for Zen 2, and they're already working through the list. A question is then if Intel continues at 5% performance gains clock for clock each year, can AMD make 5-15% and close the gap?

Price for Performance is still one of AMD's strong points. For the multitude of tests where that $499 1800X is able to match or beat a $1049 i7-6900K, it directly translates to a 2x in price/performance. Intel still has the plus on the ecosystem and chipset, but the argument is around how many users actually do what that extra IO.

We're planning part 2 for our Ryzen testing - more CPUs, IPC analysis, GPU testing data on DX12 using our new suite of games and graphics cards (I finally got hold of a few high-end cards), and as many angles as we can shake a stick at.  I'm going to go sleep after the rest of this review is fleshed out (I assume I'm still updating it as the embargo has passed) for a couple of days, then returning from MWC, then back to the grind. Requests on a postcard, or a tweet to @IanCutress.

 

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Tl;dr fuck the chip for the time being?

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1 hour ago, Fulcrous said:

Tl;dr fuck the chip for the time being?

Yes and No

 

 

If you want to build a workstation (content creation) especially the R7 1700 with OC (3.8 to 4.0 GHz) is a bargain. If you want to build a gaming rig the 7700K is the better chip.

 

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Some guy tried to tell me that if you use an i7 7700k you'll lag while watching a twitch stream or a youtube video while playing a game, like how shit of an intel cpu did he have to experience that? I got an 1st gen i7 non oc'd and I never EVER experienced that, but hey, if you use any of the Ryzen CPUs you can watch videos with no lag. 4Head

 

It seems like that for purely gaming you should go with intel while if you're doing any(which I don't) productivity work/workstation then I'd go with Ryzen. I agree with @Folterknecht on this.

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According to Ars it's woth waiting till they release some 4/8 Ryzen chips which may be better suited for gaming...

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16 minutes ago, Siimcy said:

Some guy tried to tell me that if you use an i7 7700k you'll lag while watching a twitch stream or a youtube video while playing a game, like how shit of an intel cpu did he have to experience that? I got an 1st gen i7 non oc'd and I never EVER experienced that, but hey, if you use any of the Ryzen CPUs you can watch videos with no lag.@Folterknecht

Watching videos or streams while gaming doesn't put much additional load on a 4C/8T chip, that is total nonsense.

 

BUT streaming yourself while gaming is a totally different topic and that is where I'm torn between the i7 7700K and the new Ryzen chips. On one hand they are lagging behind when it comes to 1080/1440p gaming, on the other they offer 4 additional physical cores which can handle the required load the streaming is causing better than the 7700K. I 'd need more benchmarks of that scenario (very seldom benchmarked) to come to a conclusion.

AMD also promised some "fixes" for 1080/1440p gaming. If they can deliver on that promise (questionable - especially the timeframe) the R7 1700 oced to 3.8-4.0 GHz would be a great allround CPU.

 

9 minutes ago, OOPMan said:

According to Ars it's woth waiting till they release some 4/8 Ryzen chips which may be better suited for gaming...


nope - that kind of reasoning is nonsonse in my book. The 4C/8T won't clock much higher initially than the 8core parts and the games where Skylake/Kabylake is leading with a great margin usually point to ofter problems with Ryzen beside clockspeed (e.g. OS support, SMT, optimization and what not).

Also you get to price points where there isn't that much of a difference between Intel and AMD, where many gamers will just say "fuck it, I ll stick to Intel where I know what I ll be getting."

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The ideal CPU for a streamer atm would be a 5820K if it wasn't for the whole platform price. They usually reach 4.5 GHz with a reasonable voltage and offer 6 physical cores. WHen Intel finally brings 6 cores with Coffeelake to the mainstream end of this year/early 2018 AMD will be in trouble again, if Intel doesn't screw up pricing and that chip goes at least 4.5 GHz with OC.

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7 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

BUT streaming yourself while gaming is a totally different topic and that is where I'm torn between the i7 7700K and the new Ryzen chips. On one hand they are lagging behind when it comes to 1080/1440p gaming, on the other they offer 4 additional physical cores which can handle the required load the streaming is causing better than the 7700K. I 'd need more benchmarks of that scenario (very seldom benchmarked) to come to a conclusion.

AMD also promised some "fixes" for 1080/1440p gaming. If they can deliver on that promise (questionable - especially the timeframe) the R7 1700 oced to 3.8-4.0 GHz would be a great allround CPU.

When I use to stream with my 3770K and my 6700K I didn't notice any FPS drop in games when using OBS.

I'd personally wait for a while to buy a Ryzen CPU/motherboard until all the early issues are worked out.  Supposedly some of them will be fixed soon.  More than half the tests I saw where memory bandwidth was measured showed the Ryzen systems with DDR4 having less memory bandwidth than a 3770K with DDR3.

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I looked around for Ryzen benchmarks with SLI GTX 1080 GPUs due to the controversy in AMD recommending reviewers test at 1440p and 4k.  I wanted to see if you reduce the GPU bottleneck, woudl the 1080p results carry over.  However I haven't found any.  I've see some photos and videos of the reviewer's shops with half a dozen GTX 1080's in the box sitting on the shelf.  Obviously its not due to a lack of GPUs.  Does SLI not currently work on the new AMD motherboards?  

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4 minutes ago, Bavor said:

I looked around for Ryzen benchmarks with SLI GTX 1080 GPUs due to the controversy in AMD recommending reviewers test at 1440p and 4k.  I wanted to see if you reduce the GPU bottleneck, woudl the 1080p results carry over.  However I haven't found any.  I've see some photos and videos of the reviewer's shops with half a dozen GTX 1080's in the box sitting on the shelf.  Obviously its not due to a lack of GPUs.  Does SLI not currently work on the new AMD motherboards?  

X370 boards are SLI certified. But SLI will just move the goal posts nothing else when it comes to gaming and "bottlenecks".

 

Leaving the 7700K out of the equation (or downclocking it to ~3.8 GHz) and just comparing the Ryzen chips to the 6900K (Broadwell architecture with 8C/16T), there are games where the performance difference between the two chips are much greater than they should be judging from the numbers you see in Blender, Cinebench and so on. 5% here or there arn't worth talking about, it's the cases were you suddenly look at a 20% delta that has people all worked up and the fanboys going into heat.

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13 hours ago, Bavor said:

I looked around for Ryzen benchmarks with SLI GTX 1080 GPUs due to the controversy in AMD recommending reviewers test at 1440p and 4k.  I wanted to see if you reduce the GPU bottleneck, woudl the 1080p results carry over.  However I haven't found any.

 

JaysTwoCents build a SLI Ryzen system but didn't have enough time to do some real in depth benchmarking in games yet. His 1st motherboard got bricked while doing a BIOS upfate and he had to tear the whole watercooled system apart again.

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22 hours ago, Siimcy said:

Some guy tried to tell me that if you use an i7 7700k you'll lag while watching a twitch stream or a youtube video while playing a game, like how shit of an intel cpu did he have to experience that? I got an 1st gen i7 non oc'd and I never EVER experienced that, but hey, if you use any of the Ryzen CPUs you can watch videos with no lag. 4Head

 

It seems like that for purely gaming you should go with intel while if you're doing any(which I don't) productivity work/workstation then I'd go with Ryzen. I agree with @Folterknecht on this.

That guy is retarded, 7700K is one of most powerful consumers chips no way that's CPUs problem. What about i5/i3/Pentium then... 

 

I'm lagging on Ryzen updates because I can't consume 21st century stuff because of 19th century non existent ADSL.

 

But as I briefly saw Ryzen is mixed bag, like Prescotts were...

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