Rexxie

Elimination: Tier 8 Premiums - Patriot's Providence (COMPLETE)

514 posts in this topic

E25 will win a T7.

Now that i am thinking about it, most of the T7 prem are not even in the shop.

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1 hour ago, leggasiini said:

Panther M/10 from what i heard is pretty good now, but no one seems to have it.

I have it :P And it's hell of a lot fun - aka BOT carnage - after the recent buffs. Means I can upvote it :D Wait. Means I'm one of the few that can actually upvote it?!?!

 

:damn:

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1 hour ago, yuryi said:

The T-34-100 is the best tier 7 :bigdoge:

you misspelled Black Prince :serb:

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The Panther M10 is good now, decent mantlet, reasonably quick, gun handles VERY well now. 

It's better than any of the other T7 meds by simple virtue that it doesn't see 9s. 

My prediction for the top 3 would be: su-122-44, e25 and m10

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6 minutes ago, Hellvn said:

The Panther M10 is good now, decent mantlet, reasonably quick, gun handles VERY well now. 

It's better than any of the other T7 meds by simple virtue that it doesn't see 9s. 

My prediction for the top 3 would be: su-122-44, e25 and m10

No AT15A? People seem to like it. 

12 hours ago, Hellvn said:

Good work Rexxie.

At least the tier 7 list will be shorter.

Calling it for the SU-122-44 now.

It was good 2 years ago. Now ? Too many armored targets. It's still good but not as broken as it once was.

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The At 15A tends to get smashed a bit in the press 2-2 to win meta.   Admittedly, there have been times when I've caught facing one at 200+ and haven't been able to hit weakspots and they've just wrecked me.

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In honor of this thread I went and spread a little FREEDOM

CdzjWtI.png

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I was down on the Patriot, but its because I was playing it poorly. I went tryhard today though and I figured out what I was doing wrong. Mostly I'm really bad at shooting, so I wasn't perma-tracking enough. It needs to track shot to bring the dpm to bear - for slow tanks with more alpha to keep them from trading their 320/390/440 for your 240, for fast tanks to keep them from fleeing you. Once I began actually aiming for tracks things went better. I don't play a lot of spammy guns apparently, especially on heavies. Probably should track more on the SuperPershing...

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1 hour ago, CraBeatOff said:

I was down on the Patriot, but its because I was playing it poorly. I went tryhard today though and I figured out what I was doing wrong. Mostly I'm really bad at shooting, so I wasn't perma-tracking enough. It needs to track shot to bring the dpm to bear - for slow tanks with more alpha to keep them from trading their 320/390/440 for your 240, for fast tanks to keep them from fleeing you. Once I began actually aiming for tracks things went better. I don't play a lot of spammy guns apparently, especially on heavies. Probably should track more on the SuperPershing...

I don't really like and did well in the 26E5. I think it is down to I am used to longer reload bigger alphas. Like say T-10, dump a shot and dance for a few seconds for arty and come back, which 26E5 doesn't need to.

On 26E5's case, it has to armour stop and output the dpm unlike let say a generic medium. While other heavies are relying covers for their reload the 26E5 can just keep controlling the fight... Not my kind of vehicle but I understand the strength, should have played more. SP on the other hand... I hate it for its turret, its only good when facing ranged enemies or idiots.

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Do we need a new one of these to account for the Defender? :kappa:

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On 9/3/2017 at 7:56 PM, WorldConqueror said:

Do we need a new one of these to account for the Defender? :kappa:

I'd rate it maybe top 4? Not better than the Patriot for sure and not better than the Lowe. I m pulling out of my ass since i dont have any of these but then i'd rate the SP higher than it is, more than the 112. 

Altough it really deserves to not be sold ever again. It makes SH cancer to play. Like all the the op premium heavies

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On 3/12/2017 at 9:51 PM, nabucodonsor said:

I'd rate it maybe top 4? Not better than the Patriot for sure and not better than the Lowe. I m pulling out of my ass since i dont have any of these but then i'd rate the SP higher than it is, more than the 112. 

Altough it really deserves to not be sold ever again. It makes SH cancer to play. Like all the the op premium heavies

Sry man, but the fact you have not played them shows. 112 is leagues better than SP. Better armor (by far!), alpha, and mobility is way, way better. Strongest points of 112 are as good or better as SP, but without these ridiculous weakspots. Can sidescrape. When you drive the SP, you get penned from every direction. You can wiggle all day...but you will get nailed while you aim...you can choose from hatches or MG weakspot...to simply LFP with gold.

Löwe and Patriot are very good tanks, and frustrate the driver less than Defender. But Defender that hides LFP at any range beyond point blank can troll tier 10 tanks...as long as there is not enough acc/penetration combo to go through the mantlet. 

440 alpha on that 122 is pure cancer, it has no right to it. Even with 390 it would be blatantly OP. But 440 is just big enough to 4-shot every single tier 8 on the safe side, except KV-5 (that can not pen you with gold in LFP, trololol)

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7 minutes ago, Felicius said:

Sry man, but the fact you have not played them shows. 112 is leagues better than SP. Better armor (by far!), alpha, and mobility is way, way better. Strongest points of 112 are as good or better as SP, but without these ridiculous weakspots. Can sidescrape. When you drive the SP, you get penned from every direction. You can wiggle all day...but you will get nailed while you aim...you can choose from hatches or MG weakspot...to simply LFP with gold.

Löwe and Patriot are very good tanks, and frustrate the driver less than Defender. But Defender that hides LFP at any range beyond point blank can troll tier 10 tanks...as long as there is not enough acc/penetration combo to go through the mantlet. 

440 alpha on that 122 is pure cancer, it has no right to it. Even with 390 it would be blatantly OP. But 440 is just big enough to 4-shot every single tier 8 on the safe side, except KV-5 (that can not pen you with gold in LFP, trololol)

The problem with Spersh vs 112 is the 112 armor is reliable and you can predict what will pen you and what will not. Spersh armor scheme is drunk

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4 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

The problem with Spersh vs 112 is the 112 armor is reliable and you can predict what will pen you and what will not. Spersh armor scheme is drunk

Yup...in SP you are not safe from any tank you are going to see, even frontally.

I did HT 15.3 several times in 112, with a lot of surplus dmg - enough to do 15.4.

also, SP feels the ARTY  way more. slower+softer sides+more exposure to get the job done is a nasty combo.

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Just now, Felicius said:

Yup...in SP you are not safe from any tank you are going to see, even frontally.

I did HT 15.3 several times in 112, with a lot of surplus dmg - enough to do 15.4.

also, SP feels the ARTY  way more. slower+softer sides are a nasty combo.

SP is better at one thing: printing filthy capitalist cash. Not counting the 50t which is a pain to play these days, it's probably the best T8 earner with pref MM. But in terms of pure effectiveness it has no place in the pref 8 scene.

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16 minutes ago, lavawing said:

SP is better at one thing: printing filthy capitalist cash. Not counting the 50t which is a pain to play these days, it's probably the best T8 earner with pref MM. But in terms of pure effectiveness it has no place in the pref 8 scene.

How does it print cash when you need to fire plenty of gold ammo (and 90 mm is one of the the worst ones in the game in cost/dmg done. Just the 57/75 mm are worse per dmg done).

For example, when I drive a 112, i use AP and nuke the SP cupolas or MG weakspot, in return I just hear the APCR bouncing...

Both tanks have to fire so much gold that you do not earn nearly as much as in premiums with good base pen, but 112 has an edge. 18.33 vs 14.35 silver per dmg done on gold ammo. 

Sure, you can play the SP like a peasant with AP, especially after the AP pen buff, but tanks so slow that can not run away from you will laugh at 190 pen.

Tried playing the SP on my clanmate acc to grind him some credits while banned, but found it better to just play tier 6 normal meds. I would earn about 2/3 as much money in half the time.

Out of pref mm tanks that earn more, WZ-111 is a beast, now it is accurate enough+medium mobility to be able to actually fire 50% of gold as before. Just play the medium side of the map.

Jag 88 is still here the champ of ghetto AP  silver print machine.

P.S. 112 has a very useful HE shell, not to be underestimated, and cheap. it deals 150-200 dmg even on targets SP gold would never pen. And it can survive the slugfests like a champ, so nibbling the enemies with HE is fine (like a up-armored O-Ho with baby derp) since you would bounce half or more heat on them anyway.

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1 hour ago, Felicius said:

Sry man, but the fact you have not played them shows. 112 is leagues better than SP. Better armor (by far!), alpha, and mobility is way, way better. Strongest points of 112 are as good or better as SP, but without these ridiculous weakspots. Can sidescrape. When you drive the SP, you get penned from every direction. You can wiggle all day...but you will get nailed while you aim...you can choose from hatches or MG weakspot...to simply LFP with gold.

Löwe and Patriot are very good tanks, and frustrate the driver less than Defender. But Defender that hides LFP at any range beyond point blank can troll tier 10 tanks...as long as there is not enough acc/penetration combo to go through the mantlet. 

440 alpha on that 122 is pure cancer, it has no right to it. Even with 390 it would be blatantly OP. But 440 is just big enough to 4-shot every single tier 8 on the safe side, except KV-5 (that can not pen you with gold in LFP, trololol)

Yeah as i said just out of my ass XD

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1 hour ago, Felicius said:

How does it print cash when you need to fire plenty of gold ammo (and 90 mm is one of the the worst ones in the game in cost/dmg done. Just the 57/75 mm are worse per dmg done).

For example, when I drive a 112, i use AP and nuke the SP cupolas or MG weakspot, in return I just hear the APCR bouncing...

Both tanks have to fire so much gold that you do not earn nearly as much as in premiums with good base pen, but 112 has an edge. 18.33 vs 14.35 silver per dmg done on gold ammo. 

Sure, you can play the SP like a peasant with AP, especially after the AP pen buff, but tanks so slow that can not run away from you will laugh at 190 pen.

Tried playing the SP on my clanmate acc to grind him some credits while banned, but found it better to just play tier 6 normal meds. I would earn about 2/3 as much money in half the time.

Out of pref mm tanks that earn more, WZ-111 is a beast, now it is accurate enough+medium mobility to be able to actually fire 50% of gold as before. Just play the medium side of the map.

Jag 88 is still here the champ of ghetto AP  silver print machine.

P.S. 112 has a very useful HE shell, not to be underestimated, and cheap. it deals 150-200 dmg even on targets SP gold would never pen. And it can survive the slugfests like a champ, so nibbling the enemies with HE is fine (like a up-armored O-Ho with baby derp) since you would bounce half or more heat on them anyway.

I don't feel that the E4 needs the APCR spam though it's strictly better when you're firing nothing but gold.

T26E4 has better accuracy and pen and aimtime; standard ammo is dirt cheap. Bloom is trash but you're slower than the Lowe so it all works out. In fact the E4 is one of the few pref MMs left that can still deal damage to most things it sees with standard ammo: I wish I could say the same of the 175 pen blunderbusses excluding the 111 (as you say 111 doesn't benefit from full HEAT spam).

I also enjoy running the 111 as an earner and it's truly excellent where you don't need to spam HEAT - but the thing is when you're toptier you sometimes still need to fight heavies - in which case you're going to barely break even. It's very inconsistent: it earns more than say the M4 49 in good games and loses creds in bad ones.

The E4 is consistent in that you can fire AP as a really shitty sniper - while still retaining the ability to influence games in a pinch with the APCR. It might even be a better earner than the Jagd 8.8 - just by having a turret and being somewhat more agile.

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1 hour ago, lavawing said:

I don't feel that the E4 needs the APCR spam though it's strictly better when you're firing nothing but gold.

T26E4 has better accuracy and pen and aimtime; standard ammo is dirt cheap. Bloom is trash but you're slower than the Lowe so it all works out. In fact the E4 is one of the few pref MMs left that can still deal damage to most things it sees with standard ammo: I wish I could say the same of the 175 pen blunderbusses excluding the 111 (as you say 111 doesn't benefit from full HEAT spam).

I also enjoy running the 111 as an earner and it's truly excellent where you don't need to spam HEAT - but the thing is when you're toptier you sometimes still need to fight heavies - in which case you're going to barely break even. It's very inconsistent: it earns more than say the M4 49 in good games and loses creds in bad ones.

The E4 is consistent in that you can fire AP as a really shitty sniper - while still retaining the ability to influence games in a pinch with the APCR. It might even be a better earner than the Jagd 8.8 - just by having a turret and being somewhat more agile.

Wait what? Have you played it in the last 2 years? New Germans, Japs, Patriot, Liberte, buffed Chinese prems, Defender are all not easy pens. You are also uber slow so no flanking and you have low alpha so if you don't manage a detrack someone hides and all you do is 240. 

Also sniper? 

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46 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

 

Wait what? Have you played it in the last 2 years? New Germans, Japs, Patriot, Liberte, buffed Chinese prems, Defender are all not easy pens. You are also uber slow so no flanking and you have low alpha so if you don't manage a detrack someone hides and all you do is 240. 

Also sniper? 

The thing about the new Germans and the op prems is that if AP doesn't do the job, your APCR is going to bounce half the time anyway - i.e. Liberte UFP, hulldown Defender, etc, etc. On top of that if you're going face to face with an O Ho or Defender you're screwed anyway. I'm a cheapskate and I dont fancy playing the M449 against arty so I end up playing the E4 as a second line support vehicle - which is a role it is fairly suited for.

When I said sniper, I meant that the gun is good enough to hit most targets in the mid-long range with minimal aiming. It's a shitty sniper, as I said, but the E4 functions even when it's forced into the role - (which happens more than you'd think). It's a better sniper in the sense that the turret lets you react to situations and farm when the Jagd8.8 is still stuck turning to face its enemies like a whale.

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37 minutes ago, lavawing said:

The thing about the new Germans and the op prems is that if AP doesn't do the job, your APCR is going to bounce half the time anyway - i.e. Liberte UFP, hulldown Defender, etc, etc. On top of that if you're going face to face with an O Ho or Defender you're screwed anyway. I'm a cheapskate and I dont fancy playing the M449 against arty so I end up playing the E4 as a second line support vehicle - which is a role it is fairly suited for.

When I said sniper, I meant that the gun is good enough to hit most targets in the mid-long range with minimal aiming. It's a shitty sniper, as I said, but the E4 functions even when it's forced into the role - (which happens more than you'd think). It's a better sniper in the sense that the turret lets you react to situations and farm when the Jagd8.8 is still stuck turning to face its enemies like a whale.

1. You said that prem ammo works on most tanks. I simply stated it doesn't.

2. ACPR 258mm pen can actually deal pretty well with Defender LFP and badly angled UFP, can pen though Liberte Shoulders, Patriot Hull, Oho, German turret cheeks

3. It's a slow tank. Being 2nd line support in such a slow  tank is problematic if your team movess faster than you. Also are you always 2nd line? What if there is relatively little armor on your team? 

4. Maus can also snipe. That doesn't mean it should

5. Jagdtiger 88 may react slower but the DPM makes up for the lack of turret. 

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8 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

1. You said that prem ammo works on most tanks. I simply stated it doesn't.

2. ACPR 258mm pen can actually deal pretty well with Defender LFP and badly angled UFP, can pen though Liberte Shoulders, Patriot Hull, Oho, German turret cheeks

3. It's a slow tank. Being 2nd line support in such a slow  tank is problematic if your team movess faster than you. Also are you always 2nd line? What if there is relatively little armor on your team? 

4. Maus can also snipe. That doesn't mean it should

5. Jagdtiger 88 may react slower but the DPM makes up for the lack of turret. 

1 seems to be the other way round

2 at ranges where you are close enough to hit weak areas, the Spershing's armour doesn't hold up very well: you can certainly be effective as a volume shooter (APCR): but I find the credit loss not worth it.

3 spersh's armor doesnt work consistently at close ranges - sometimes it's better to keep your distance unless your team desperately needs a heavy - also E4 is weighed as a med irrc

4 as you said the spersh is often too slow at mid/late game: sniping in those stages is probably the only thing you can do

5 I disagree. the lack of a turret and the general nature of the tank makes it hard to deal damage unless your enemies are practically driving in the open to you. The E4 can afford to take a lot of free shots especially when things are relocating.

 

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45 minutes ago, lavawing said:

1 seems to be the other way round

2 at ranges where you are close enough to hit weak areas, the Spershing's armour doesn't hold up very well: you can certainly be effective as a volume shooter (APCR): but I find the credit loss not worth it.

3 spersh's armor doesnt work consistently at close ranges - sometimes it's better to keep your distance unless your team desperately needs a heavy - also E4 is weighed as a med irrc

4 as you said the spersh is often too slow at mid/late game: sniping in those stages is probably the only thing you can do

5 I disagree. the lack of a turret and the general nature of the tank makes it hard to deal damage unless your enemies are practically driving in the open to you. The E4 can afford to take a lot of free shots especially when things are relocating.

 

So you said you liked spersh yet you agree it's a slow, armored, mediocre dpm, mediocre pen, low alpha, mediocre bloom 2nd line support? How is that better than 112? Also sniping late game in corridor meta only happens if your team is loosing.

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