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Vampiresbane

T-34 and KV-1s walk into Mittengard; who walks out?

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Trying to flesh out my tank selection for 1v1 and 3v3 tourneys.  Mittengard is a frequent selection for 1v1 fights.  KV-1S is a good heavium and has a good weapon selection.  It also has superior dpm vs the t-34 (2k base vs 1.26k base).  T-34 does have better mobility (higher top speed and better power to weight ratio).  (And much better gun depression, but that's not as needed in Mittengard 8 vs 3.)

So when fighting KV-1, M4's, churchills, each other, etc, what's the better tank?  In my mind it's the KV-1S, but I've seen people swear up and down it's the T-34. 

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The t-34 has 2,3k dpm. You have to use the Zis-4. I do not know the answer you need someone more experienced of me and better, but in 1 vs 1 maybe a t34 with more view range and camo. 3 vs 3 i believe the best answer would be mixed.

Also consider the usage of the derp gun at tier 5.

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1 minute ago, nabucodonsor said:

The t-34 has 2,3k dpm. You have to use the Zis-4. I do not know the answer you need someone more experienced of me and better, but in 1 vs 1 maybe a t34 with more view range and camo. 3 vs 3 i believe the best answer would be mixed.

Also consider the usage of the derp gun at tier 5.

Ah there it is.  Thank you.  Figured I was missing something.  At least with that in mind, the DPM's are more similar.

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KV-1 with 122 derp can 1 or 2 shot any tier5 tanks except the OIEXP. 140 pen HEAT can go thru any armor at tier5.

 

 

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Mittengard is so small, that its going to be difficult to utilize vision effectively.  If you want to play vision games, I'd almost consider a straight gold loadout chaffee or M7, they have high dpm and an overwhelming VR advantage over anything russian.  Obviously, you have to avoid getting derped at all costs, but that holds true for the T-34 also.  I'm not sure that the OI-Ex is not a better tank at tier 5 right now than the KV.

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23 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

Mittengard is so small, that its going to be difficult to utilize vision effectively.  If you want to play vision games, I'd almost consider a straight gold loadout chaffee or M7, they have high dpm and an overwhelming VR advantage over anything russian.  Obviously, you have to avoid getting derped at all costs, but that holds true for the T-34 also.  I'm not sure that the OI-Ex is not a better tank at tier 5 right now than the KV.

Not talking about vision games here.  It's Mittengard so vision is irrelevant.  Both the KV-1 and the KV-1S have access to the 122 derp gun.  The OI is so large, it'd be very difficult to avoid being shot by other derp guns so it's less attractive to me. 

So T-34 vs KV-1S with 122 vs KV-1S with 85 mm

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20 minutes ago, Vampiresbane said:

So T-34 vs KV-1S with 122 vs KV-1S with 85 mm

If its mittengard, the alpha of the 122 heat means tat you need to poke twice- to two shot anything form close range. they cant play vision game if you play city unless you are stupid. the kv1s with the 85mm can't out dpm the 122 due to first shot dpm- 85 needs 4-5 shots=12-16 seconds, 122 need 2 shots- 10 seconds, or trade 1 for one and the 122 always wins, bc the range is so low the potatoness of the gun doesn't matter one bit.

Hope this helped

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2 minutes ago, garryallen said:

If its mittengard, the alpha of the 122 heat means tat you need to poke twice- to two shot anything form close range. they cant play vision game if you play city unless you are stupid. the kv1s with the 85mm can't out dpm the 122 due to first shot dpm- 85 needs 4-5 shots=12-16 seconds, 122 need 2 shots- 10 seconds, or trade 1 for one and the 122 always wins, bc the range is so low the potatoness of the gun doesn't matter one bit.

Hope this helped

Assuming of course the opponent's tracks don't eat the shot or it goes off to Pluto, but you make a good point. 

Sounds like KV1S with the 122 gun is the better option.

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5 minutes ago, Vampiresbane said:

Assuming of course the opponent's tracks don't eat the shot or it goes off to Pluto, but you make a good point. 

Sounds like KV1S with the 122 gun is the better option.

iT'S RUSSIAN.

EVERY SHELL GOES WHERE YOU AIMED IT

especially in a game where accuracy matters sooo much

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Surely I'm not the only one who is disappointed that upon clicking this thread there isn't some variation on the classic "a priest and a rabbi walk into a bar" joke

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in a 1v1 on a brawling map, DPM isn't as important as you think. Alpha and hitpoints are also important. (Even armor). With a brawling map, you can deny the effective use of a t-34's DPM if you can keep him at any sort of range and trade him 1 for 1, which almost any tank wins that brawl. So even though it has great DPM, on a map like mittengard, I would rather have more hitpoints, armor and alpha because I can deny someone their DPM on me. 

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One on one I'd say no, but do any here think the 57 mm on the KV-1 would be viable for 3 on 3?

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why would you have 122 on kv1s :eww:. You only use 85 mm on kv1s

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On 2/17/2017 at 7:05 PM, MAJEST1C said:

why would you have 122 on kv1s :eww:. You only use 85 mm on kv1s

122mm gun with 370 alpha HEAT will win any tier5 trade unless you fail to pen. 

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7 hours ago, Megumin said:

122mm gun with 370 alpha HEAT will win any tier5 trade unless you fail to pen. 

In a 1v1 scenario you can easily out dpm a kv1s w/ 122 in the 85.

The 122mm takes forever to aim and reload (11 - 13 sec). You have to be careful with your engagement. If you miss or fail to pen you're screwed. On the other hand the 85mm only takes 4 - 5 sec. 

Kv1s has 620 hp. You only need to shoot it 3.875 times with the 85. Which is like 15.5 - 19.4 sec whereas on the 122 you need to wait 22 - 26 sec. So you can easily take one hit and rush the enemy kv1s who has 122.

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10 minutes ago, MAJEST1C said:

In a 1v1 scenario you can easily out dpm a kv1s w/ 122 in the 85.

The 122mm takes forever to aim and reload (11 - 13 sec). You have to be careful with your engagement. If you miss you're screwed. On the hand the 85mm only takes 4 - 5 sec. 

Kv1s has 620 hp. You need to shoot it 3.875 times to take it out with the 85. Which is like 15.5 - 19.4 sec whereas on the 122 you need to wait 22 - 26 sec. 

Both gun have the same potato aiming speed, only accuracy matters. 

122mm takes slightly over 9 sec to reload. Under same equipment and crew skills, 85mm takes 4 sec.

Suppose both sides pull their first shot and penned, 85mm will still need 3 more shots to kill the 122mm. 85mm won't be able to reload the 3rd shot on time to win the 1v1.

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12 minutes ago, Megumin said:

Both gun have the same potato aiming speed, only accuracy matters. 

122mm takes slightly over 9 sec to reload. Under same equipment and crew skills, 85mm takes 4 sec.

Suppose both sides pull their first shot and penned, 85mm will still need 3 more shots to kill the 122mm. 85mm won't be able to reload the 3rd shot on time to win the 1v1.

No, 85 has better aim time and accuracy. Im going base off the stats on WG wiki. Dont recall 122 having 9 sec reload. 

@CraBeatOff pls confirm. I will start padding pubbie salts in low tiers again.

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10 minutes ago, MAJEST1C said:

No, 85 has better aim time and accuracy. Im going base off the stats on WG wiki. Dont recall 122 having 9 sec reload. 

@CraBeatOff pls confirm. I will start padding pubbie salts in low tiers again.

http://imgur.com/a/eHRWb aiming time from WG wiki

even without any equipment and crew skills, 122mm still reload on time. 11sec compare to the 4.8 sec on 85mm

:serb:

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12 hours ago, Megumin said:

http://imgur.com/a/eHRWb aiming time from WG wiki

even without any equipment and crew skills, 122mm still reload on time. 11sec compare to the 4.8 sec on 85mm

:serb:

You are looking at kv1  not  kv1s  gun stats

VgJ8A6J.png

Your math doesn't add up. It still does not reload on time. It takes 22 sec (2 shots using 122) to take out full hp kv1s compared to 19.2 sec (4 shots) using 85. 

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36 minutes ago, MAJEST1C said:

You are looking at kv1  not  kv1s  gun stats

VgJ8A6J.png

Your math doesn't add up. It still does not reload on time. It takes 22 sec (2 shots using 122) to take out full hp kv1s compared to 19.2 sec (4 shots) using 85. 

:feelsbad:Well, I was retarded blind for not seeing the letter S behind.  Sry 'bout that.

 

On the math part, mine is based on the situation where you have your first shell loaded and ready to fire. There is no way you are still reloading by the time both tanks meet, even on the small map like Mittengard.  Thus it's 11.12sec vs. 14.37sec (4.79x3) ,  122 on KV-1s still win the trade.

 

 

 

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I am not talking about one specific situation here. I am talking using the tank to its full potential, to be able to adapt to any situation, not every game will be the same. If a good player is playing it why would he put himself in a bad position. He would obviously try to get in close and use his dpm. The 122 will work effectively against bad players but not against good players. The user with 122 will find himself in a disadvantage if he is constantly relocating to put some distance between his opponent. He cant shoot on the move and he has to aim carefully. Kv1s is not a sniping tank it's meant for brawling. 

The shell velocity on the 122 is slow you can see it coming, especially from long distance. It's also based purely on rng, you're screwed if it low roll. I'm not sure if the spawn point for mittengard is still on the slant hill but you can already get 2 - 3 shots in when the game start so the 85 is a better gun to use. 

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