Wessmen

How much premium do you shoot? (Gimping myself because im cheap?)

42 posts in this topic

Hello labrats of wot. 

Ive been trying to adress my lame ass win ratio to be atleast the level to match my wn8 and Ive been struggling even in what are considered really good tanks. I usually have an "ok" avg DPG in the tanks and start to think that MAYBE im too cheap/not skilled enough to bring it together in close situation. 

Example of stats in Patriot is 54% win and 1650 dpg. Defender is 52% and 1750dpg and lets say the T-10 (not enough games but) 50% with 2200 dpg.

The trigger to this is that I had a standoff in a Löwe against a unicum and after the first shot he loaded APCR while I was shooting AP. Half of my shots penned his turret/cupola but obviously he came out on top. 

This led me to think on other games with similiar scenario where I am "too cheap" and trying to hit weakspots that makes me go into very bad trade situations and I lose to much HP to be effective later or the opponents have time to get more tanks in the spot. Another example could be in T-10 trying to shoot thru the turret of an E-75 instead of sucking it up and load HEAT and fire thru his UFP when its a "tight situation".

After this happen I usually think Im dumb as fuck trying to go cheap but on the other hand I dont want to spam premium either as Im in the infinite credit grinding process.

Am I wrong of thinking of about 100 games shooting premium earlier instead of hitting tricky weakspots could potentially turn the tide in 5(?) games, but in the long run there is a big difference between 52% and 57% overall. 

What do you guys think about this? Something you "picked up"or doesnt give a crap about? 

Obviously Im not a very good player, but every little bit...

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I shoot gold if standard is not reliable enough. Even if i have chance to pen that spot, i probably load gold if it is quite tough piece of armor to make sure i pen (such as Obj 252U Vs an E 75; 225 pen CAN be enough to pen E 75 from LFP but i most likely load gold on that scenario to make sure i pen as RNG would very well fuck me over).

It also depends on ammo type and what tank i play. If the gold is HEAT without very high pen, i wont shoot it unless absolutely necessary, and i typically try to shoot slightly less gold on premiums if possible. Thats where Revalorise combines both which results in i almost never fire gold on it.

Dont worry TOO much about ammo cost. I mean, if you fight superheavy with 400 HP left that you cant pen with gold, you definitely should fire gold on that situation. You probably end up doing actually more profit by shooting one gold shell than wasting credits on spamming normal ammo at it.

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The gold ammo has three two main role in this game:

1. It allows you to potentially pen stuff you could not pen with standard ammo.

2. It guaranties pen, where the standard ammo would bounce sometimes.

3. It farms salt.

You have difficulties to use gold ammo in the second case. 

In the garage the cost are considered in credits, but in the battle the currency is your hp. For example if you are a pub star rock star you can get stuff for free, aka you don't spend hp, but still farm damage. You don't want to throw it away, or give it away for free, but you want to spend it wisely. Basically if you shoot gold when you need to, you save your hp.

The rule of thumb would be: If you put yourself in a disadvantageous situation just shoot gold when the pen is not guarantied with standard ammo.

Some examples for those situations:

- Dead gunner/gun or otherwise crippled damage potential

- HP disadvantage, or DPM/alpha deficit.

- Positional/armor disadvantage etc.

 

I think you already realized this on your own. You just need a confirmation.:)

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I always carry as much gold ammo as to cause 2000ish damage, obviously I don't spam it with impunity but when things get tricky and you have to somewhat carry your team it's nice to have a reliable source of damage. Also, as leggasiini said, don't worry about the ammo costs, especially if you have a couple of premium tanks. The exp gained from a great carry game sure compensates the loss of what, 20-30k creds?

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1 hour ago, Wessmen said:

Hello labrats of wot. 

Ive been trying to adress my lame ass win ratio to be atleast the level to match my wn8 and Ive been struggling even in what are considered really good tanks. I usually have an "ok" avg DPG in the tanks and start to think that MAYBE im too cheap/not skilled enough to bring it together in close situation. 

Example of stats in Patriot is 54% win and 1650 dpg. Defender is 52% and 1750dpg and lets say the T-10 (not enough games but) 50% with 2200 dpg.

The trigger to this is that I had a standoff in a Löwe against a unicum and after the first shot he loaded APCR while I was shooting AP. Half of my shots penned his turret/cupola but obviously he came out on top. 

This led me to think on other games with similiar scenario where I am "too cheap" and trying to hit weakspots that makes me go into very bad trade situations and I lose to much HP to be effective later or the opponents have time to get more tanks in the spot. Another example could be in T-10 trying to shoot thru the turret of an E-75 instead of sucking it up and load HEAT and fire thru his UFP when its a "tight situation".

After this happen I usually think Im dumb as fuck trying to go cheap but on the other hand I dont want to spam premium either as Im in the infinite credit grinding process.

Am I wrong of thinking of about 100 games shooting premium earlier instead of hitting tricky weakspots could potentially turn the tide in 5(?) games, but in the long run there is a big difference between 52% and 57% overall. 

What do you guys think about this? Something you "picked up"or doesnt give a crap about? 

Obviously Im not a very good player, but every little bit...

There are some people who will tell you that load gold whenever it gives you an advantage - that means on tanks that have APCR you will fire full gold.

That isn't wrong. But my wallet can't take it and I suspect yours can't either.

So, my rule of thumb is you load gold for tanks which have shitty standard rounds. For example, playing the 113 with more HEAT than AP made me appreciate the gun handling more now that I wasn't bouncing AP off E100 LFPs and E5 cupolas. There are other tanks where HEATspam probably doesn't do much - like the E5 - the only times you want gold is when you face superheavies: because of the nature of superheavy guns, I'd rather slam HEAT at their general direction than aim for a few pixels.

One other thing is that I find gold better for high alpha guns. A fast reloading gun like the 430 takes no time to switch from APCR to HEAT; but an E75 takes more than twices to do the same thing. For these big derpy guns it generally helps to load APCR for the first shot. You can shoot at range a lot better and you don't miss the early damage.

Finally, it goes without saying that if you're loading anything but full gold in your Type4/5, you're doing it terribly wrong.

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Not much as i should but i play on standard account and i dont want to sink my credits. But i believe that i could get more wr and dmg out of it. I do it only as a last resort.

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In the moment, ask yourself: Are you penetrating shots reliably in this engagement? If not, load gold. Repeat: Are your gold rounds penetrating reliably? If not, you probably should not be in that engagement. 

I always had heaps of credits so I never really cared much about the cost, sometimes I shot full gold just because it was funny getting the reactions from the poor plebs as their shitty tanks got peppered with fizzing HEAT rounds.

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As a rule of thumb, I always carry enough premium rounds to take out the highest HP tank two tiers higher from full (So if I'm in a tier 8, I load enough gold to kill a Maus)

If your chance of penning a tank is at best 1/2 with standard ammo then you should load gold. Then like what Pity said if even with gold your chance is still 1/2 you're most likely in the wrong engagement and should find a way around it

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This is what I need to hear. Today Im only loading premium when I really need too (superheavies) and I rather search for a shot with regular rounds than loading premium for a 100% pen.

Need to be more active and load it whenever there is a doubt I wont pen but not to the point where I shoot it on soft targets. 

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My reasoning behind how many shells of each type i carry on my tanks is this:

what am i going to meet? (how am i using my tank? in randoms? in strongholds? in clan wars/tournaments?)

on low tiers i only carry about 10 to 15 premium shells because i'm only playing them in strongholds and you don't really meet anything more armoured than a O-I. the rest is 70/30 AP/HE (to crush dem types)

on premiums i usually carry a 50/50 split unless the premium round sucks a lot (m4 rev.), i play them mainly in SHs so i won't meet 10s or extremely armoured tanks. also they're premiums, they make credits even with goldspam.

on regular tanks that have apcr as premium i carry mostly premium because due to map design you're often forced to engage heavies from the front. so my T20 has 33 apcr, my M46/E50 have about 45 to 50 apcr, my T30 runs on 15/17/2.

My light tanks run mostly on full premium loadout because they have trash tier guns and in World of Corridors you don't have many chances to flank, and even if you have you'll be shooting at superheavies sides, AP just isn't up to the task. Only exception being my m41 90 that runs on 20/15/11 because i play it only in SHs.

on tier 10s:

tanks that have apcr as premium: 50B -> 24/32/4, Pz.Kpfw. VII -> 5/33/2, Object 263 -> 20/18/5. Object does fine with AP and even then 18 apcr are enough.

tanks that have heat as premium: T62A/430 -> 24/24/2, M48 -> 30/25/2, E50M 20/25/3, 121 -> 20/18/2, Batchat -> 20/10/0, TVP -> 32/16/0.

 

As you can see on tanks that have heat as premium i never carry more heat than standard, except for my heavies.

T110E5 -> 15/25/2, 113 -> 10/22/2 (don't remember the exact numbers on 113), E100 -> 13/25/12.

This because those heavies are meant to get up close and blap people in the face, the key is to limit as much as possible your exposure, and unless your aim sucks heat is still more reliable than ap at close range.

 

Then there's the PZ2J/BT-SV duo.

On those i run full apcr because they're extremely expensive and rare to get and i want to slap my epeen in the face of low tier statpadders. also pz2j ap pen sucks dix and even if it flanks, you'll be bouncing on the ass of tier 2s.

 

 

 

 

 

And even after goldspam i'm still a blue shitter :feelsbad:

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Pretty much what most people have said. If i need it to pen reliable its being used.

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9 hours ago, PityFool said:

Sometimes I always shoot full gold because it's fun to collect pubbie salt as I jizzed their shitty tanks got peppered with fizzing HEAT rounds.

:gachi: 

Rip all chat 

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First of all you are not losing games becouse of your ammo choice. If you lost a game you did something wrong. Maybe its a bad trade, maybe its a bad positioning. Maybe game was unwinnable but you could have farmed more dmg and at least come close/closer to the win.

Now as for premium ammo, it helps sure. But you wont win more games if you suddenly start shooting more of it. What it does is it allows you a larger variety of engagements. Meds can fight heavies more reliably, hull down tank dont nessecerily have to be left to go fight somewhere else. But to recognize that you have to learn the game more, not switch to prem ammo and think its an easy win now.

I personaly load gold whenever theres a chance that a tank i cant pen reliably might peek on me. Also if apcr is premium  it magicly becomes standard in my tanks... weird :kappa:

 

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I carry 50/50 in most tanks. Tanks with shit pen normal rounds, or derp ass guns, I carry more gold. I generally shoot silver rounds, but if there's a coming engagement where I HAVE to pen I load gold. IE a 1v2 where one is low health I'll load gold and kill the low health one then switch back to silver as needed. That's presuming it would be iffy that the silver round would pen or not.

 

In my 13 90 I used to carry 2 clips of AP and the rest APCR but that turds gun is so derpy that I'm sick of the first two clips being *Miss, THAT DIDN'T GO THROUGH, Miss, Miss, THAT DIDN'T GO THROUGH, PENETRATION*  so now I just said screw it and carry all gold. I hate it and only play it for the x2's anyway so it doesn't cost me much.

 

I giggle every time I get a rage message telling me I'm a shitter for totally farming their tank from full HP and using gold.

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I sometimes feel like gold is as much a compensation for RNG as much as anything else.  I don't really need to use gold ever in something like an ISU-152, but if I'm sniping something with armor at 400m, I'm lucky to even hit the tank much less a weak spot.  With an accurate gun like my E5, I actually use a lot of AP (until the Maus sperg began) because BIA/Vents makes the E5's 258 pen feel more like 270.  

I'm also a lot more likely to load gold in something with a long reload because if I only get a shot ever 12 seconds, a bounce could be pretty costly.  On the other hand, in a tank like the IS-6, I hardly ever use gold because the spread between 175 pen and 217 pen is not very consequential - a well aimed 175 is about as reliable.

Confession: My locust has not carried an AP round in a very very long time.

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2 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

Confession: My locust has not carried an AP round in a very very long time.

I thought I was the only one that did this :trump:

Confession x2: The same applies to my clubbler M3 stuart.

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Oh and Jap heavy/Maus? Gold for days. Damn things. I've bounced countless shells off the sides when I was completely perpendicular to them.

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There's no such thing as spamming when it comes to premium ammo...

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Does mentality change if you have 50k+ battles and already own all/most of the tier X you want?  At that point, less pressure to accumulate credits so can be more liberal with premium ammo? (hopefully somewhat balanced by better judgement on where prem ammo is appropriate?)

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I have probably fired a total of less than 50 gold rounds in my whole WoT career. It would be nice to check it somewhere but probably not possible. Usually if I can´t pen I go somewhere else or select targets that I can pen.

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Shooting gold allows me to do a lot of things you can't usually do, like fight heavies straight on with a 62a or 121. 

Pressing 2 is not going to make you a better contrary to popular bad's belief. It will get you out of certain situations but so much more thought and positioning comes along with it. (Like fighting two super-heavies in a med.) 

Also 50B APCR only is the best thing in the game but I don't have a mil. to drop each session. :feelsbad:

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Can I pen what's infront of me with AP without spending ages trying to pixel snipe?

Yes = Stick with AP or whatever shell I already have loaded

No = Load prem

It's literally that simple

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I handle it like Schnitzeltruck said above.

And when I´m bottom tier I don´t even bother about anything and shoot almost premium only. Especially under conditions like being a tier 5 light tank in a tier 8 game.

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2 hours ago, hallo1994 said:

There's no such thing as spamming when it comes to premium ammo...

Some tanks laugh at HEAT spammers...

I just go out sideways in my IS-3/WZ-111/WZ-111 1-4

and laugh:gachi:

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2 hours ago, Sylvansight said:

Does mentality change if you have 50k+ battles and already own all/most of the tier X you want?  At that point, less pressure to accumulate credits so can be more liberal with premium ammo? (hopefully somewhat balanced by better judgement on where prem ammo is appropriate?)

Honestly the mentality changed for me when tier 8 strongholds with credit boosts made it possible to make millions a night.

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