Frenzier

Simple solution to Artillery, not talking about removing it...

26 posts in this topic

I had an idea on how to significantly reduce the amount of artillery in the game, i do not like stun mechanics, simply because i do not want to be stunned by arty. I think the problem currently its simply the amount of players playing arty, you get arty way too often, and too many, it becomes frustrating, so its very simple... in order to play arty a player would need to play with a regular tank, for example: You play 1 battle with a normal tier 10 tank, it means you can play 1 battle with a tier 10 arty; you play 2 battles with a tier 9 tank, it means you can play 1 battle with a tier 10 arty; you play 4 battles with a tier 8 tank it means you can play 1 battle with a tier 10 arty, or 4 with a tier 8 arty... and so on, but it would only work upwards and never downwards, meaning if you play 1 battle with a tier 10 tank, you can only play 1 battle with an arty of any tier. This would reduce the amount of arty in more than 50% assuredly and increase the amount of normal tanks in queue, meaning you would more often land in a battle without arty or with only 1 arty.

I am an arty player, just like i play any other tank, currently i am only playing arty because i decided i will 3 mark all artys before WG changes them, i recognize how artillery can disrupt gameplay, especially when it does not behave logically due to xvm focus, however i do not think there is anything technically wrong with artillery, and if anything it would require a buff in order to be able to impact the outcome of battle across a large sample in the same manner it can be done with any other regular tank. I would not have any problem adhering to a system like this,

Please do not waste your time replying remove arty from game or whatever negative opinion you have about arty or arty players, i have probably heard it all before many times, arty has been part of the game since 2010, and for me the problem its simply in the fact you get arty all the time, i enjoy playing arty so i accept i have to deal with it when in a not arty vehicle and so i play accordingly.

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Buuuuuuuuuuut removal of arty IS a good and simple solution... :(

Seriously, i did some research and thinking and its actually legit true that arty removal would be the best option in order to actually fix the game (first step of fixing problems). However, ofc arty can be reworked into much better direction than the abominations that are the current arties.

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Enter a battle in any X tier tank -> die in first minute -> play X arty. Give top 10 rule and the worst kind of player will make randoms unplayable. That's it.

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37 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

Enter a battle in any X tier tank -> die in first minute -> play X arty. Give top 10 rule and the worst kind of player will make randoms unplayable. That's it.

Well i guess that would also happen... hopefully such players could be punished for unsportsmanlike conduct... if it only worked the way it is supposed to.

Make it only count if you top 10 in experience. Problem solved.

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I say keep arty and buff it slightly - acc or splash.

But - limit it to 1 arty per game.

1. Arty could be needed to dig out hulldown tanks in otherwise "too powerful"-positions. 
2. Que will be significant longer and demotivating
3. Players getting XVM-focus will have 1 arty and not 3 to worry about

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The simplest solution is to:

  1. remove the ability to see player's affiliations and allow for api to not be drawn upon from certain external sources (cough XVM cough - granted if XVM gave me a $5 option to allow data to not be pulled, I'd do it).
  2. Get rid of its ability to delete a tank in the game
  3. Actually design it to be a long-support vehicle.

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8 minutes ago, Fulcrous said:
  1. Actually design it to be a long-support vehicle.

That could actually be quiet a fun idea to play with. Lets say its a long range support and to "spot" you have to choose a tank within distance of radio operator and you can spot 200m from the tank you "communicate with".

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Or make it punish camping players instead of active ones but there are two problems:

- there are too many camping machines (IKEA TDs, second branch of Merkel TDs) unable to do something different

- campers remain unspotted for the most of time so without a spotter in current system arty is useless against them unless it blind fires known spots but it's a lottery. Changing it so arty would see somehow campers would make it full outsider of WoT and good player would toon with one cancer to get info about camping unspotted tanks.

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I mean you could also just make it an actual support weapon that has support abilities like Smoke Rounds (cover up advances or retreats), and Flares (Illuminates enemies in the nearby area). And maybe give it punishment for bad play like sitting in one spot of the map the whole game.

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How about increased notifications for artillery, in satellite view only.  E.g:

  • Make arty tracers more visible, both in satellite view for arty, and in regular 1st/3rd view for tanks.  Potentially map pings for arty, especially for subsequent shots from same spot.
  • Make tank shells ALSO with visible tracers, this time for arty only, and only in satellite view.  Increase visibility with subsequent shots from same area (require distance traveled to reset, not just track movement?)

This would increase the ability for both counter-battery fire, as well as use arty as an anti-camping mechanic again, because they've a ghetto spotting system.

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I remember back when all arty did was counter-battery. I would try to go for actual damage, but the threat of dying to their arty was huge. After every single shot you had to relocate, or else you were dead. (Either this or my memory sucks, but I'm pretty sure I remember that counter-battery was easy enough for a baddie like me to do it.)

I think that arty should have either drastically longer shell travel time or random/inconsistent shell speed. That way, hitting any target that moves would be nearly impossible. 

1 hour ago, Errants said:
  • Make tank shells ALSO with visible tracers, this time for arty only, and only in satellite view.  Increase visibility with subsequent shots from same area (require distance traveled to reset, not just track movement?)

This would increase the ability for both counter-battery fire, as well as use arty as an anti-camping mechanic again, because they've a ghetto spotting system.

This would be so good for anti-camping. It'd be cool if hidden TDs that havent relocated for several shots would activate a sort of map ping on every shot. Kinda like the real-time map in the Battleship movie where they fire based on tsunami buoy pings. 

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3 hours ago, Raj said:

I mean you could also just make it an actual support weapon that has support abilities like Smoke Rounds (cover up advances or retreats), and Flares (Illuminates enemies in the nearby area). And maybe give it punishment for bad play like sitting in one spot of the map the whole game.

If they won't remove the class alltogether then something along these lines would be a step in the right direction imo, was going to post pretty much the same thing.

Remove all AP/HEAT rounds, give them HE with reduced alpha for damage, plus 5 max each of smoke and illumination rounds. Something that turns them into a team support class instead of a "delete your tank from the other side of the map" class. Also make counter battery a lot easier (like AW) so they have to dodge enemy clickers at the same time.

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8 hours ago, Wessmen said:

I say keep arty and buff it slightly - acc or splash.

But - limit it to 1 arty per game.

1. Arty could be needed to dig out hulldown tanks in otherwise "too powerful"-positions. 
2. Que will be significant longer and demotivating
3. Players getting XVM-focus will have 1 arty and not 3 to worry about

That's 1 too many.

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I played a wargame several years back called Flashpoint Germany that was a sim of a mid 80's conflict between the USSR and NATO in the Fulda Gap region.  The most striking thing was how both how powerful artillery was, and how quickly it got deleted if it kept firing without relocating.  Counter battery fire was based on radio location, an arty unit that was constantly firing was constantly on the radio getting fire orders and making adjustments.  This heavy ready traffic was triangulated, located and fired upon - the idea being it's either arty or an HQ - KILL IT.

In that vein, if an arty unit in WoT fires at something it does not have DIRECT vision of, it is getting the position of the target over the radio from an observer.  Solution; every time an arty fires based off of a radio feed, the position it was in, is lit up on the mini map for 20 seconds to allow for counterbattery fire.  It forces "shoot and scoot" back into the game, and if a light tank is anywhere nearby, they have a better chance of visually spotting a re-positioning arty.  At least the worst arty players will be eliminated early in a match, and rapid firing arty will constantly be moving because of the constant position updates, making it less of a leisurely clickfest.

The most compelling argument people make is about a class of tanks that can damage any tank on the battlefield with almost no threat to themselves.  WG could actually split arty lines instead of making the tier 10's just "monster" damage dealers - it would be viable to have smaller caliber arty with higher accuracy for counter battery kills or tracking/light damaging regular tanks.

Edit:  Kolni's idea about the 5 second "birdseye" view delay is excellent as well - it should eliminate the ability of an arty to lead a full speed Obj-140 and drill it.  If you can pull that off in direct fire mode, good for you.

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15 hours ago, Frenzier said:

Make it only count if you top 10 in experience. Problem solved.

It would make the worst players in team fighting each others and their own team. Pushing, blocking and other asshole things because if I can't be better than 5 allies I'll make them worst than me.

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13 hours ago, Raj said:

I mean you could also just make it an actual support weapon that has support abilities like Smoke Rounds (cover up advances or retreats), and Flares (Illuminates enemies in the nearby area). And maybe give it punishment for bad play like sitting in one spot of the map the whole game.

This is not only a good idea, but it is also historical. 

Ofc WG will never implement it.

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Why cant the topic about this just fucking die already. Theyre implementing stun which im fine with because people will still bitch about it. Thus leading to its removal and everything will be peachy :3

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The stun thing seems fine (its always a gamble how it works on live)

Imo your idea is sound, the player should however finish in the top 10 of hes team, the real idiots wont be able to play much arty, so be it

Other easy solutions:

  • Ban xvm, once every gets its fair share of arty, right now 50% of the arty shells goes to 1% of the player base, red ppl like arty (they always say) lets see if they still like it
  • Ditch arty missions, many, many people ONLY play arty for the stupid T55 / Obj 260, tier 10 lights mean rework needed anyway, so just ditch arty, give everyone a free crew member / free tokens and remove them, no arty mission = way less players
  • Remove gold ammo for arty, if certain arty becomes to bad, WG can always buff them, but in case of gold HE, its a flat out 100% buff mostly used by lamers / wallet warrior (and heat is retarded anyway)
  • ban arty platoons, most of the really fail games are due to arty platoons....

banning xvm might be a bit harder, but removing mission and gold rounds and not allowing 2 arty in 1 platoon should be easy, and would ease some of the problems, if combined with OP hes solution, it might work

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On 29.03.2017 at 7:21 PM, Wessmen said:

I say keep arty and buff it slightly - acc or splash.

But - limit it to 1 arty per game.

1. Arty could be needed to dig out hulldown tanks in otherwise "too powerful"-positions. 
2. Que will be significant longer and demotivating
3. Players getting XVM-focus will have 1 arty and not 3 to worry about

If a tank is in a too powerful postion go to other flank. It can't attack and it is useless in it. 

On 30.03.2017 at 8:23 PM, NightmareMk9 said:

Any chance WG is going to give me back 1,000,000+ Free XP and $20+M credits if it is removed?

I have some arty and I truly believe you should loose those XP and credits as punishment for playing arty. So people who played and ground it more get punished more. 

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On 3/30/2017 at 2:10 PM, GehakteMolen said:
  • Ditch arty missions, many, many people ONLY play arty for the stupid T55 / Obj 260, tier 10 lights mean rework needed anyway, so just ditch arty, give everyone a free crew member / free tokens and remove them, no arty mission = way less players
  • Remove gold ammo for arty, if certain arty becomes to bad, WG can always buff them, but in case of gold HE, its a flat out 100% buff mostly used by lamers / wallet warrior (and heat is retarded anyway)

Or if you complete the other 4 lines w/ honours (and get the reward tank) just give them the last crew member. Which, admittedly wouldn't be as effective as removing the missions entirely, but would help.

Another idea (instead of removing gold ammo) is removing food which, combined with BIA, makes all of the non-splash ammo types viable.

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On 30/3/2017 at 10:08 AM, Zepherex said:

Why cant the topic about this just fucking die already. Theyre implementing stun which im fine with because people will still bitch about it. Thus leading to its removal and everything will be peachy :3

It's good that people bitch and moan

So that way it gets entirely removed from the game :serb:

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