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Charioteer - does it need a buff?

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wow such quality post, much content and elaborate thinking :feelsbad:

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Charioteer is the best tank in the line. Gun is deadly if you let it aim and mobility is good. Charioteer is basically a medium tank imo. The dispersion could be a tad bit better, but still workable.

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Tried to like the Charioteer but couldnt. Gun takes too long to bear on target and aim, which results in me snapping and missing the shot or getting smacked in the face for overexposure. Still best tank in the line though, for what its worth.

Very much preferred the UDES, hell I could even fight in closer ranges with it than the Charioteer.

Agreed that it can use a dispersion buff, maybe plus a turret rotation buff also.

 

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[tangent]It's not that the chariot needs buffs, it's that everything else needs nerfs. Everything that wasn't absurd a few years ago is now mediocre at best, and the chariot is no exception. They can keep buffing tanks all they want, but all it's doing is feeding the cycle that continually makes their game less enjoyable.[/tangent]

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13 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

[tangent]It's not that the chariot needs buffs, it's that everything else needs nerfs. Everything that wasn't absurd a few years ago is now mediocre at best, and the chariot is no exception. They can keep buffing tanks all they want, but all it's doing is feeding the cycle that continually makes their game less enjoyable.[/tangent]

This so much.

WG has buffed waaayy too many tanks and waaayy too much. I mean, some of the recently buffed tanks were ones that really needed it (like Type 4/5 Heavy, Centurion 1, Löwe and T28/T95), but even those often got overbuffed. And sadly, they are planning to buff even more tanks in 9.18.1/9.19, which is said to be similar buff patch for USSR as 9.17.1 was for Germany. 

IS-7 and IS-4 are good examples of this powercreeping. Lets be honest, neither of those tanks are bad. They havent got any real changes for years (expect for minor buffs for IS-7 and HD armor buff for IS-4). They are capable tanks, but now feel powerless compared majority of tier 10 heavies. WG sadly are planning to buff both of these (IS-7 directly, IS-4 on other hand will be swapped with ST-I; my guess that it will either become something that is IS-4 but with ST-I turret and depression, or dual barrel ST-II). This is more like what tier 10 heavy should perform like on average (aka nerf majority of tier 10 heavies) and then to keep tier 10 mediums dominating again, they should do global pen nerf for those (expect for Leo/30B i guess). This way armor of superheavies would have been "buffed" without making them completely immune to lowtiers, so it would have achieved same goal as recent overbuffs to heavies, while nerfs to entire tier would make it little less powerful compared to tier 8 and 9. 

With this changes buffing tier 9s and 8s (and then lower tiers to not make them too weak compared to tier 8s and 9s) wouldnt be necessary, expect for ones that are actually bad and need it. Sadly the OP tier 8 prem trend makes this impossible, more or less, as WG has said "they cant nerf premiums".

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I mean, its got a tier X medium gun at tier 8 and good mobility so it should be good.  However - the devil is in the details - the soft stats kinda suck.  It also has shitty camo, as bad or worse than most tier 8 meds.

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2 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

Charioteer is the best tank in the line.

That's not saying much. :doge:

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The dispersion really doesn't make any sense. The dispersion on the move/tank traverse is so much worse then the roomba and the T28 Proto and they have larger caliber guns and aren't really moving about like the Charioteer would. Sure it has better turret traverse dispersion, but you get a tank like the Charioteer because you want to be mobile.

 

And if they want the Conway and Shitbarn to be played more, then can start by giving them the Centurion speed buff and putting that Rolls-Royce Griffon in the FV4005. 

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46 minutes ago, KingTrygon said:

The dispersion really doesn't make any sense. The dispersion on the move/tank traverse is so much worse then the roomba and the T28 Proto and they have larger caliber guns and aren't really moving about like the Charioteer would. Sure it has better turret traverse dispersion, but you get a tank like the Charioteer because you want to be mobile.

 

And if they want the Conway and Shitbarn to be played more, then can start by giving them the Centurion speed buff and putting that Rolls-Royce Griffon in the FV4005. 

The idea is, or was, to limit the "medium-tankability" of the Charioteer. Otherwise, it would have ended up surpassing the the T8 mediums and the Centurion I in particular, in every possible way. That would have been primarly down to how utterly use- and pointless the mediums and especially Centurion was or is though.

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Isn't the M4 Revalorisé better everywhere ? 

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4 hours ago, Rexxie said:

[tangent]It's not that the chariot needs buffs, it's that everything else needs nerfs. Everything that wasn't absurd a few years ago is now mediocre at best, and the chariot is no exception. They can keep buffing tanks all they want, but all it's doing is feeding the cycle that continually makes their game less enjoyable.[/tangent]

That is because WG wants heavy to be ``the best``, if WG cant nerf mediums (because of all the crying) they simply buff everything else....

Its no coincidence only heavys and some TDs got buffed, the only mediums they migth buff are the trully crap ones

Sandbox from last summer was the best chance medium drivers got, all the forum crying made WG reconsider, not about the end goal (nerfing mediums) but about how to approach this...

ps: i guess/ assume we will see many more heavy buffs, followed by some TD line reworks around the summer / early fall...

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It wants to be a med but cant because soft stats are utter shit and low HP/ zero armor/ bad gun dep

It wants to be a TD but has an unreliable gun and meh firepower (pen isn't everything guys)

It's just underwhelming

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7 hours ago, Rexxie said:

[tangent]It's not that the chariot needs buffs, it's that everything else needs nerfs. Everything that wasn't absurd a few years ago is now mediocre at best, and the chariot is no exception. They can keep buffing tanks all they want, but all it's doing is feeding the cycle that continually makes their game less enjoyable.[/tangent]

I keep saying it; WG is going to have to uptier everything tier 6 and up and add a whole new tier 6 eventually.

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3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

That is because WG wants heavy to be ``the best``, if WG cant nerf mediums (because of all the crying) they simply buff everything else....

Its no coincidence only heavys and some TDs got buffed, the only mediums they migth buff are the trully crap ones

Sandbox from last summer was the best chance medium drivers got, all the forum crying made WG reconsider, not about the end goal (nerfing mediums) but about how to approach this...

ps: i guess/ assume we will see many more heavy buffs, followed by some TD line reworks around the summer / early fall...

Among all of this balancing and RNG anger I'm kinda sad. The things I'm seeing are not encouraging, and despite continued success, the lack of an esports scene that generates income, even with extreme financial life support from WG, is a red flag.

I really hope this game stays healthy and gets the things it needs to continue for a lot longer because I love it a lot more than other competitive games.

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10 hours ago, leggasiini said:

 WG has said "they cant nerf premiums".

they can, just look at WoWs and the removal of stealth firing, that affected alot of premiums, but since it was an "overall change to the mechanic" they didn't really have any problems doing it

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Charioteer is OP as hell. L7 with good dpm, and mobility that puts most t8 meds to shame is plainly broken. This is what the leo pta wants to be, but a whole tier lower. The bloom takes some time to get used to; but not unworkable.

73% solo pub win rate in it while facing tier 10s 90%+ times. It is literally one of the best tier 8s out there for winning matches.

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As it's been so oft mentioned before ...  "WORKING AS INTENDED"

By buffing or simply introducing these flat out outrageous tanks, they've skewed MM when people are still running the Premiums which have preferential MM or any of the older tanks to be so bad that they can't even compete at tier.  Add to that the map changes which favor close up fighting, and so many tanks are simply rendered obsolete with the exception of many of the heavies.

I run a Jgpz 88 and you have a Defender ... short of a one shot RNGesus ammo rack, I'm screwed. 

It's a move to push bad and mediocre players into buying the new premiums and the newly released lines which push the older designs into obscurity to make people spend more money on the game, otherwise they don't maintain profit margins as high as they would like

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29 minutes ago, Hally said:

Charioteer is OP as hell. L7 with good dpm, and mobility that puts most t8 meds to shame is plainly broken. This is what the leo pta wants to be, but a whole tier lower. The bloom takes some time to get used to; but not unworkable.

73% solo pub win rate in it while facing tier 10s 90%+ times. It is literally one of the best tier 8s out there for winning matches.

Umm, ok. I spew a lot of shit out of my mouth, but daaaaaamn.

It wasn't even close to being the best tier8 at winning back when being a bitch sniper was a viable tactic.

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Thing is, I don't bitch snipe. I actually spot almost all targets myself. This is one of the few well camo'd TDs that do not have gimped view range.

 

Charioteer is essentially a leopard 1 that got suicide derped by a T49 when the match started. There are many positions you can take to influence a tier 10 match; something most tier 8s are unable to do so effectively.

 

PS: crew skills and food make a huge difference on charioteer. Players who grinded the line will likely not have a good enough crew to bring out this tank's potential. Personally, I stole my fv183 crew.

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7 hours ago, Crossfader said:

they can, just look at WoWs and the removal of stealth firing, that affected alot of premiums, but since it was an "overall change to the mechanic" they didn't really have any problems doing it

WoWs is WoWs, this is Wot

They are really scared to nerf literally anything on premiums after they nerfed SuperPershing. E25 still has that TD camo bonus when firing and Dicker Max has 400m view range.

Unless simething happens they WONT nerf premiums

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3 hours ago, Hally said:

Thing is, I don't bitch snipe. I actually spot almost all targets myself.

You and I both know that a low HP paper tank with horrific bloom, low VR, and pretty average gun apart from shell velocity is not gonna win 72% solo. None of your stats in it even hint at anything close to 72%, its a fluke that you have such high WR, don't pretend its because of what you're doing in it or because the tank is super duper OP.

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10 hours ago, xWulffx said:

As it's been so oft mentioned before ...  "WORKING AS INTENDED"

By buffing or simply introducing these flat out outrageous tanks, they've skewed MM when people are still running the Premiums which have preferential MM or any of the older tanks to be so bad that they can't even compete at tier.  Add to that the map changes which favor close up fighting, and so many tanks are simply rendered obsolete with the exception of many of the heavies.

I run a Jgpz 88 and you have a Defender ... short of a one shot RNGesus ammo rack, I'm screwed. 

It's a move to push bad and mediocre players into buying the new premiums and the newly released lines which push the older designs into obscurity to make people spend more money on the game, otherwise they don't maintain profit margins as high as they would like

While prems might be op, the best tank lines are old ones, the new ones sucks shit

  • Best td line: USSR - 268 line or German - Jp-E100 line (US E4 line can also be argued, now the proto is no longer total potato, the E4 is afterall the only capable tier 10 TD) (and no, waffle line is not good, the tier 6 and 7 suk dik, the tier 8 is overrated and the tier 10 is also bad)
  • Best heavy line: IS7, E100, IS4, E5, 
  • Best medium line: T54 / E50 / M46, all other medium lines mostly contain trash tanks,

And one ``hidden gem`` doesnt make a good tank line, lets look at ISU line:

  • SU-85 b, still the second best tier 4 TD, as good as many tier 5 TDs 
  • SU-85, heavy underrated, really powerfull TD,
  • SU-100, best tier 6 TD since like day 1, only when mm got made +2 and gold ammo for credits was added the hellcat surpassed it, now hellcat got nerfed, SU-100 is again #1
  • SU-152, best tier 7 TD, 700 alpha + high dpm, problem comrade?
  • ISU, only tank in the whole game who never get changed at all (not even radio range got nerfed of buffed) and still the best tier 8 TD
  • 704, underwhelming, but many still seem to like it
  • 268, ghetto, but all tier 10 TDs are ghetto

Jp-E100 line:

  • Hetzer: best tier 4
  • Stug, imo a bad td, but most other tier 5 are just as bad
  • Jp-IV, after the buffs a suprising good TD
  • Jagdpanther: ties with SU-122-44 for second best tier 7 TD, a decent platform, with enough camo / armor mobility + a superb gun, it looks a lot like AT-25 / Mle 46, but here it works...
  • Ferdinand: pure on numbers the best tier 8 TD and one of the best tier 8 tanks (like 5e best winratio for unicums...) imo its worse as ISU, but thats also about it
  • JT: 2100 hp + one of the best guns of the game, on tier 9, not that good for solo play, but in platoons a real brute
  • Jp-E010: trash, but all tier 10 TDs are trash

Etc

The old tank lines are simply better, last lines i played where Swe TD + heavy and czech med, and without exception all tanks below tier 8 where awefull / crap, only tier 6 skoda (with autoloader) and tier 6 swe med where average, everything else ranges from: not good, till wtf is WG thinking, and even the tier 8`s are nothign special, TVP is one of the worst tier 8 mediums, and UDES is also not very good.

I think its more a marketing thing, new players will play german or russian tanks first (they got the famous tanks) so newbs getting better tanks increases the chance they keep playing, while people who alrdy play a long time wont be put off by bad grinds so easy (i can just use free exp or trow a ton of credits at the grind, a newb with 200 games in hes stick IKV-turd td cant...)

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Lol people were bitching about the charioteer on the wot /vg thread yesterday too.

 

Shitzal got it spot on; a combination of poor traits which make an otherwise appealing TD bad. If WG were to fix anything it should the aim time and turret dispersion, that would allow people to get accurate shots off faster in overwatch positions while preventing it from being used to agressively peek and snapshot tanks.

On 16/04/2017 at 11:59 AM, Rexxie said:

[tangent]It's not that the chariot needs buffs, it's that everything else needs nerfs. Everything that wasn't absurd a few years ago is now mediocre at best, and the chariot is no exception. They can keep buffing tanks all they want, but all it's doing is feeding the cycle that continually makes their game less enjoyable.[/tangent]

WG does this to keep interest in the game; the constant cycle of nerfs and buffs (which in other games would serve its actual purpose of game balance) keeps people around who are like "oh they keep changing stuff so this game is still active and not dead and is becoming even better now let me spend 50 bucks on gold" and people who are like "this game is becoming stale for me b/c I can't do [blahblahblah] anymore in [my favourite tanks], but oh look they're buffing [tank I like] so maybe I'll stick around b/c it might be awesome and I'll buy more gold for crew training etc."

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10 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

While prems might be op, the best tank lines are old ones, the new ones sucks shit

  • Best td line: USSR - 268 line or German - Jp-E100 line (US E4 line can also be argued, now the proto is no longer total potato, the E4 is afterall the only capable tier 10 TD) (and no, waffle line is not good, the tier 6 and 7 suk dik, the tier 8 is overrated and the tier 10 is also bad)
  • Best heavy line: IS7, E100, IS4, E5, 
  • Best medium line: T54 / E50 / M46, all other medium lines mostly contain trash tanks,

And one ``hidden gem`` doesnt make a good tank line, lets look at ISU line:

  • SU-85 b, still the second best tier 4 TD, as good as many tier 5 TDs 
  • SU-85, heavy underrated, really powerfull TD,
  • SU-100, best tier 6 TD since like day 1, only when mm got made +2 and gold ammo for credits was added the hellcat surpassed it, now hellcat got nerfed, SU-100 is again #1
  • SU-152, best tier 7 TD, 700 alpha + high dpm, problem comrade?
  • ISU, only tank in the whole game who never get changed at all (not even radio range got nerfed of buffed) and still the best tier 8 TD
  • 704, underwhelming, but many still seem to like it
  • 268, ghetto, but all tier 10 TDs are ghetto

Jp-E100 line:

  • Hetzer: best tier 4
  • Stug, imo a bad td, but most other tier 5 are just as bad
  • Jp-IV, after the buffs a suprising good TD
  • Jagdpanther: ties with SU-122-44 for second best tier 7 TD, a decent platform, with enough camo / armor mobility + a superb gun, it looks a lot like AT-25 / Mle 46, but here it works...
  • Ferdinand: pure on numbers the best tier 8 TD and one of the best tier 8 tanks (like 5e best winratio for unicums...) imo its worse as ISU, but thats also about it
  • JT: 2100 hp + one of the best guns of the game, on tier 9, not that good for solo play, but in platoons a real brute
  • Jp-E010: trash, but all tier 10 TDs are trash

Etc

The old tank lines are simply better, last lines i played where Swe TD + heavy and czech med, and without exception all tanks below tier 8 where awefull / crap, only tier 6 skoda (with autoloader) and tier 6 swe med where average, everything else ranges from: not good, till wtf is WG thinking, and even the tier 8`s are nothign special, TVP is one of the worst tier 8 mediums, and UDES is also not very good.

I think its more a marketing thing, new players will play german or russian tanks first (they got the famous tanks) so newbs getting better tanks increases the chance they keep playing, while people who alrdy play a long time wont be put off by bad grinds so easy (i can just use free exp or trow a ton of credits at the grind, a newb with 200 games in hes stick IKV-turd td cant...)

I was mainly referring to Premium tanks old and new ie JgPz88 vs Defender for example.

That being said I am not saying there are not any good older tanks, but there's a select few and many are being power crept by new lines and OP premiums.  Many are only good in certain situations or maps, and some were always crap from day one.  The IS3 is a great tank, but the Defender will beat it most matches given players with similar skill level 8-9 out of 10 matches.

A lot of it is the players. Someone like Rexxie can take just about any tanks (even the real turds) and wreck face vs mediocre players in some of the good tanks.

While I applaud many of the Unicums who play a wide variety of tanks and take the challenges to keep Unucum stats with some of the real turd tanks, and (I am not casting stones or pointing fingers here) many just play the "better" tanks to maintain stats. 

 

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