Tanager

9.18 is up on NA and available

82 posts in this topic

And stun ! Which is biggest grief here. If arta got all those changes without stun then it would have been a nerf but with stun.. It's hard to tell for now. 

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58 minutes ago, 21Blackjack said:

Yeah I'm really talking about Tier 5-8 and maybe some 9's.  If tier 10 was as good as the lower tiers, many would simply drop mediums altogether and meds would mostly die as a class.  Since no one wants to grind for a med tier 10 when a tier 10 lt is better.

Tier 10 lts would work if there were bigger maps.  I feel like WG should have just made some 3 or 4 km sq maps first for tier 8+ randoms to have and moved smaller maps to lower tiers before attempting this frontline mode.  But you know how WG ideas are.

Having played in Sandbox Frontline mode, there it already starts to feel that game basic draw range is too short for big maps. Because Frontline map is divided to 3 tunnels its not too bad except north edge of map where all tunnels join and firing ranges are bigger. Maybe this is one of reasons why map is designed for such tunnels.

So for 2x2km map to really work, maybe game engine should be changed for 1km or more draw distance, also spotting ranges scaled up bit but not as much as draw ranges. This could also make more room for scouts between lines of enemies and friendlies and increase camo importance. Basically scaling ~tier 6 gameplay to tier10, drawing and fighting ranges scaled with tank capability increases in tiers. As been said many times, current maps are too small for t10 tanks.

Which leads to stupid question, why there is even draw range limit in game? Some maps would need slight redesigns if that was changed but still... invisible long range campers would be problem but maybe map design could control it.

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10 hours ago, Antimeridian said:

Hopefully once the excitement dies down the number of light and arty players will decrease and things will balance out again. I haven't played 9.18 yet because I'm too worried about retarded LT drivers yoloing everywhere as well as everyone with an arty taking it out to try the new mechanics even if they rarely play it otherwise, probably gonna wait a couple days.

There is a metric asston of gimps playing scouts right now - I've seen many games with 6, even 7 tier 9 scouts, and the games are usually slaughterfests that end up with everything BUT the scouts fighting it out in the end.  I'm sticking to my T54 in tier 9, b/c why play something with no clear advantage over it, and right now it's a target-rich environment if you want to kill scouts.

I took the t54ltwt out for one drive, eh, it's okay, but since I have ZERO interest in the 100LT, it won't get much play for now. I might play my RU a bit, but not for a while.

And good grief but is the HWK an ugly-ass little tank.  It's like a stretched-out SP1C, the proportions are completely wrong, and it still has a derpy-ass Mecar gun.  I think that one will be getting sold.  The LTTB looks okay, I might keep that for tier 8.

25 minutes ago, DHP said:

And stun ! Which is biggest grief here. If arta got all those changes without stun then it would have been a nerf but with stun.. It's hard to tell for now. 

The RoF and splash buffs were too big, IMHO.  I was originally thinking it was an overall nerf, but I'm coming around to agreeing that arty is possibly even more cancerous now.

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I think most of us see both good and bad things from changes to arty and that is the problem. 

What upsets me is the double penalty. Youre not only hit and tracked but you pay a penalty for 10-20s after and you are CRIPPLED during this time. Sure, its fine if you are hit when youre cruising to another position but if engaged in a fight its a huge nerf to the vehicle. Its not only movements but reloading time, bloom values and everything between. In short - your tank sucks and is defenseless against an un-stunned vehicle. All of this is just so dumb - WG - please motivate a double penalty. 

I know you want arty to rack up assisted damage but this is the wrong direction. 

However arty changes Im fine with is - acc buff, reload buff and slight buff to splash and ofc no AP/APCR/HEAT. This means no "oneshots" and less rng because rng sucks  

Arty should be able to dig out "campers" but they should not be able make a big threat to tanks that flex on a good positions. Example is hulldown IS-7 in the open vs medium on Mines (hill).

With these changes we would make arty a support class that hahe the potential to punish non active opponents on very strong positions with the ability to hit moving tanks with some experience/luck.

On the other end of the stick we receive more hits from arty if we stay to still but we can defend ourself on equal ground to tanks attacking us. With re-usable rep/medkit we can keep our tank in the game even if we get tracked or have a crewmember die and if you get focus Jack of all trades will still be a viable skill.

WG - Call me :Flair:

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11 hours ago, Tanager said:

There is a metric asston of gimps playing scouts right now - I've seen many games with 6, even 7 tier 9 scouts, and the games are usually slaughterfests that end up with everything BUT the scouts fighting it out in the end.  I'm sticking to my T54 in tier 9, b/c why play something with no clear advantage over it, and right now it's a target-rich environment if you want to kill scouts.

I took the t54ltwt out for one drive, eh, it's okay, but since I have ZERO interest in the 100LT, it won't get much play for now. I might play my RU a bit, but not for a while.

And good grief but is the HWK an ugly-ass little tank.  It's like a stretched-out SP1C, the proportions are completely wrong, and it still has a derpy-ass Mecar gun.  I think that one will be getting sold.  The LTTB looks okay, I might keep that for tier 8.

The RoF and splash buffs were too big, IMHO.  I was originally thinking it was an overall nerf, but I'm coming around to agreeing that arty is possibly even more cancerous now.

Agreed on the HWK, that thing is hideous. And with 630 m/s shell velocity... ouch.

I'm getting really scared about the new arty mechanics, but still hoping for an exodus of career arty shitters now that it's much less likely to ever get oneshot kills.

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12 hours ago, sahtila said:

Which leads to stupid question, why there is even draw range limit in game? Some maps would need slight redesigns if that was changed but still... invisible long range campers would be problem but maybe map design could control it.

Pretty sure the average Russian potato computer can barely handle the game as it is :MingLee:

It is pretty dumb that non-clicker shells have a max range of 720 m, and draw distance is like 200 m less. They could make armor penetration drop a lot over long distances, to dissuade the average pubbie from taking long shots. It'd be so cool to have nice, long range firefights. 

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Played a M41 arty a bit to get an idea of how this changes things.  I don't know if RNG was just kind today, but I felt like I was actually able to be more consistent with my damage in it, as well as getting a higher DPG with it.  I'm aware higher tier arty saw greater changes, but I feel like what it is now with the improved gun handling and splash makes it better against mobile tanks that it really should be.  I've had a pretty high success rate in fending off lights making a rush for me.  Aim in enough to splash and track, and if that doesn't kill them, I can use that time to reload and get to a slightly better spot.  This was one of my biggest fears of this patch.

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The stun radius is way too large.  Here are two parts of two screenshots from the same arty hit showing my issue with the current stun mechanic.  As you can see the arty shot lands on the far side of the tank behind me.  Yet I still get stunned for 15 seconds?  Look how far away that shot landed and how most of that tank was between me and where the arty shot landed.  That's way to large for a stun radius.  That's a completely broken game mechanic.  The arty was a M53/55.

dOfvVzu.jpg

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No, it's not. That shot probably didn't even deal any damage to you and as far as I can see, you were not even tracked. Install a super-heavy spall-liner and learn to live with the fact, that artillery is supposed to disrupt your free roaming.

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An open field probably wasn't the best example of how ridiculous the stun and splash are.

Take a look at these.

xVGL2BK.jpg

51dmg and 12s stun seems well balanced when done through a castle wall.

arty2.JPG

Just like 454dmg and 21s stun done to a RU sitting behind a wall.

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So what you're saying is I should reinstall, play my LefH and perma-stun people like a colossal e-dick?

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2 minutes ago, Pocktio said:

So what you're saying is I should reinstall, play my LefH and perma-stun people like a colossal e-dick?

Leffehefefefefefe and other small caliber arties don't get stun so it's the same tank it has always been.

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Stun should be with a direct hit only, not splashes.

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Come on the real question is. What is better, getting one shotted/lose 1k hp once you peak or play aggressive or getting stunned behind walls? Well so far I take the stun effect. Need still some work but it is still the better mechanic in my opinion. But I agree. Dmg or stun should not happen if you are behind a wall. 

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6 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

No, it's not. That shot probably didn't even deal any damage to you and as far as I can see, you were not even tracked. Install a super-heavy spall-liner and learn to live with the fact, that artillery is supposed to disrupt your free roaming.

Pretty sure it fucks with gun handling and tank mobility. From what I've heard it's 15 seconds of waiting for the shit to wear off. There is no reasonable reason for stun to apply a full stun at the edge of the blast radius. They could let the stun time scale with the distance from the shell impact, or as @xWulffx said, only proc on direct hits. Same for cancer going through walls and boulders. 

 

5 hours ago, RagePrincess said:

Leffehefefefefefe and other small caliber arties don't get stun so it's the same tank it has always been.

At least WG had the sense to keep stun off of rapid fire arty. What is the minimum caliber for stun? 

Also why does LefH have 400 m VR ffs??? You could get a patrol duty with that at tier 5!

Edit: How close was the RU to the wall in that training room? Pretty sure Pilsen has thin walls in that hangar thingy, so that might make a little sense if the RU was directly against the wall. 

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6 hours ago, datboi said:

Edit: How close was the RU to the wall in that training room? Pretty sure Pilsen has thin walls in that hangar thingy, so that might make a little sense if the RU was directly against the wall. 

It was really close in that one. For the next shot it moved away and still got hit for like 200.

But directly against the wall or not it's still a wall and arty definitely shouldn't be doing that amount of dmg through it.

Some players have also suggested that splash goes through ground as well. Getting hit by a shot that landed on the other side of a ridge and so on.

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Not sure if clickers have infested this place or what the hell is going on when some people actually defends a mechanic that splash and stun thru objects and other tanks. 

Its utterly broken and nothing else. There is no logical explaination in the world that arty should be able to stun a tank which is NOT line of sight from the impact and the same goes for damage. Are you kidding me when you say "the walls are thin"?

Well then - let all 15cm guns shoot thru object and buildings. It prevents camping :kappa:

Calling it stun is also bullshit. The stats are presented on WoT homepage - the tank acts like the crewmembers are DEAD. Dont even try to say you can fight during it because 50% on reload, 50% on aimtime and 30% dispersion you are going to be happy to hit a tank you facehug. Its a damn joke. 

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On 19.04.2017 at 2:58 PM, sahtila said:

Having played in Sandbox Frontline mode, there it already starts to feel that game basic draw range is too short for big maps. Because Frontline map is divided to 3 tunnels its not too bad except north edge of map where all tunnels join and firing ranges are bigger. Maybe this is one of reasons why map is designed for such tunnels.

So for 2x2km map to really work, maybe game engine should be changed for 1km or more draw distance, also spotting ranges scaled up bit but not as much as draw ranges. This could also make more room for scouts between lines of enemies and friendlies and increase camo importance. Basically scaling ~tier 6 gameplay to tier10, drawing and fighting ranges scaled with tank capability increases in tiers. As been said many times, current maps are too small for t10 tanks.

Which leads to stupid question, why there is even draw range limit in game? Some maps would need slight redesigns if that was changed but still... invisible long range campers would be problem but maybe map design could control it.

Potato computers can't stand 30 tanks in the  same time. Same with game engine - that's why frontline is killing even good machines.

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On 4/20/2017 at 5:26 PM, RagePrincess said:

Leffehefefefefefe and other small caliber arties don't get stun so it's the same tank it has always been.

Yep, I sold my FV304 as it is now useless for doing personal missions.

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TO EVERYONE SAYING STUN IS ``SO BAD``

eccdb539c51e4867b5d4f0d98eaec631_jokerho

got penned by T92 AP in my own maus and saw another maus getting penned for 2000, 3 games late i got penned by HE for 2k in my E100 by an GW tiger, and got splahed atleast 3 times for 900

even if stun would last 1 minute, it would be 10x better as current shit...

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33 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

TO EVERYONE SAYING STUN IS ``SO BAD``

eccdb539c51e4867b5d4f0d98eaec631_jokerho

got penned by T92 AP in my own maus and saw another maus getting penned for 2000, 3 games late i got penned by HE for 2k in my E100 by an GW tiger, and got splahed atleast 3 times for 900

even if stun would last 1 minute, it would be 10x better as current shit...

 

Can't agree more, trying to 3 MOE M103 and I got so many splashes today. Even stupid Lorr can fuck you up. And let's not shot_behind_building cancer ConqGC... Stun isn't best solution, but at least is less annoying than fappers in base with 47% and 2000 alpha. 

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On 4/20/2017 at 4:21 PM, Madner Kami said:

No, it's not. That shot probably didn't even deal any damage to you and as far as I can see, you were not even tracked. Install a super-heavy spall-liner and learn to live with the fact, that artillery is supposed to disrupt your free roaming.

That shot landed almost 15 meters away from my tank on the OTHER SIDE of that other tank yet it stunned my crew.  That's 100% broken bullshit.

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On 20/04/2017 at 2:05 AM, Antimeridian said:

Agreed on the HWK, that thing is hideous. And with 630 m/s shell velocity... ouch.

I'm getting really scared about the new arty mechanics, but still hoping for an exodus of career arty shitters now that it's much less likely to ever get oneshot kills.

HWK is pretty solid as a scout though, 36 hp/ton and 410m view range on tier 8 is not bad, plus it probably has decent camo.

Shell velocity is awful, but at least it gets 250 pen HEAT, most of the other lights at tier 8 are stuck with the IS6 problem, premium rounds unable to pen even several tier 8 heavies frontally in weak spots, let alone tier 9 and 10. Aside WZ at 220 APCR, the rest are like 210 penetration which is plain bad against higher tiers.

------------------------------------------------------

Splash and stun needs toning down, hopefully they are getting that feedback.

Splash through walls should go, that seems like buggy programming to me.

Splash radius should drop by about 10-15% I think and stun durations from splash should drop quite a lot, probably by 30-40% so a 15s stun becomes more like 8-9s. 

 

But overall I still would take the stun and splash over being hit for 1k.

IMO arty on 9.17.1 is like getting shot in the head, you are either dead or crippled. 9.18 arty is like getting a punch in the arm, hurts for a bit and you might not be able to use your well for a little while but it's all temporary. 

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I see the 9.18 patch notes were changed from, "Preference of placing a player at the top of the team list, if they have already played several battles at the bottom of the team list." to say "Preference of placing a player at the top/middle of the team list, if they have already played several battles at the bottom of the team list."  I guess the NA server doesn't have the population to make the first quoted matchmaker rule work?

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On 4/23/2017 at 7:41 AM, tajj7 said:

 

Splash and stun needs toning down, hopefully they are getting that feedback.

Splash through walls should go, that seems like buggy programming to me.

Splash radius should drop by about 10-15% I think and stun durations from splash should drop quite a lot, probably by 30-40% so a 15s stun becomes more like 8-9s. 

Max stun duration is fine, the problem is the min stun duration is way too long.  Very low dmg hits should be ~4 seconds (so bat arty doing 75dmg to my maus between three shots isn't stunning me for ~40 seconds), and 0 dmg hits should have zero stun.

I'm fine with the spash radius as it lets them keep overall dmg up some by hitting multiple targets.  What I really want reduced is the bloom and/or aimtime.  This patch wasn't supposed to make it so arty is significantly better at hitting lights and meds as they move around, but that's what it feels like.

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