_Dean_

New Ryzen PC, help with freezing issue

36 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hey guys I recently built a Ryzen PC(built it Monday)) and am having issues where it stops responding for a few seconds before coming back up. I seem to notice it mainly when playing games(and to a lesser extent I've noticed in a couple other times when I don't have any games open. I'm wondering if I have a faulty CPU or motherboard, or is this the FMA3 hang issue that was supposed to have been fixed with the latest bios? I have proof recorded through twitch for both World of Tanks and League of Legends

Video1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/136989464 Issue happens 5 seconds into the video

Video 2: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/136990201 Issue happens twice in that clip(once at 6:50 and the other time at 10:04

My monitor has a native resolution of 1600x900, I have a seasonic 650w PSU

I also ran a memtest86 and it showed 0 errors with my memory(although I need to fix up timings a bit.) I'm also using the custom Ryzen balanced power plan from AMD(could this also cause issues?)

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance

hwinfo.PNG

 

Update: it froze just now while I had only itunes streaming music and Google Chrome open. I tried to minimize chrome.

Edited by _Dean_

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1) Did you use a fresh installation of Win10?

1.1) If yes - did you install the drivers manually (1st chipset, after that sound, graphic and so on)?

1.2) Everything ok in the "device manager" or are there still unknown devices or yellow triangles with a "!" in it? Search for new devices there

 

2) Are you using addin cards like sound, RAID, vidseo capture or anything else beside the GPU?

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Sounds like power management issue. Find any BIOS update and apply it to see how it goes first.

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52 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

1) Did you use a fresh installation of Win10?

1.1) If yes - did you install the drivers manually (1st chipset, after that sound, graphic and so on)?

1.2) Everything ok in the "device manager" or are there still unknown devices or yellow triangles with a "!" in it? Search for new devices there

 

2) Are you using addin cards like sound, RAID, vidseo capture or anything else beside the GPU?

1. Yes it was a fresh install of windows(formated drive first and then installed.

1.1. I did download them off of the MSI page (https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK-ARCTIC.html#down-driver&Win10 64) but I don't think I did it in that order.

1.2. Nothing is showing with any king of marking by it and scanning for new devices isn't changing a thing. Although I'm not sure if I'm supposed to have both the AMD high definition audio device and a Realtek high definition audio(could this be the cause of it? Image provided)

2. Nothing additional is plugged into the motherboard, etc other than peripherals through the back USB ports and my SSD and GPU for the internals.

 

Another question. I made sure to download the chipset but I also downloaded msi live update to see if it would tell me that I needed anything else. It's showing that I have a totally different version installed and also showing a different online version than what I got from the amd site. I currently have 17.10 installed according to the amd chipset installation program. What do I trust here or what do I look for under system devices in the device manager to find what version it tells me?

devices.PNG

msi.PNG

45 minutes ago, wes said:

Sounds like power management issue. Find any BIOS update and apply it to see how it goes first.

The first thing I did after I built it was flash the BIOS to the latest version.

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47 minutes ago, wes said:

Sounds like power management issue. Find any BIOS update and apply it to see how it goes first.

@_Dean_

Please update to the latest BIOS - and don't be afraid of "beta" BIOSes as long as they are from the official website of your board. Though before you flash make sure your Vsoc is below 1.2V in your BIOS (not sure how up to date your current BIOS is).

7 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

1.2. Nothing is showing with any king of marking by it and scanning for new devices isn't changing a thing. Although I'm not sure if I'm supposed to have both the AMD high definition audio device and a Realtek high definition audio(could this be the cause of it? Image provided)

That 's normal - your GPU also has a "sound device"

7 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

 

Another question. I made sure to download the chipset but I also downloaded msi live update to see if it would tell me that I needed anything else. It's showing that I have a totally different version installed and also showing a different online version than what I got from the amd site. I currently have 17.10 installed according to the amd chipset installation program. What do I trust here or what do I look for under system devices in the device manager to find what version it tells me?

 

 

I'm not a fan of these update tools as they just clutter up your system, I do that manually from time to time (never change a running system ...) until the platform is stable. With Ryzen you ll have to do that more often for the next 6 - 12 months I suppose. Just grab the latest drivers from AMDs or MSI website.

                                                     

Also install the Win10 creators update or however that thing is called - after that install the new balanced AMD power plan and report if that changed something (BIOS and windows/poer plan updates).

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8 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

@_Dean_

Please update to the latest BIOS - and don't be afraid of "beta" BIOSes as long as they are from the official website of your board. Though before you flash make sure your Vsoc is below 1.2V in your BIOS (not sure how up to date your current BIOS is).

That 's normal - your GPU also has a "sound device"

 

I'm not a fan of these update tools as they just clutter up your system, I do that manually from time to time (never change a running system ...) until the platform is stable. With Ryzen you ll have to do that more often for the next 6 - 12 months I suppose. Just grab the latest drivers from AMDs or MSI website.

                                                     

Also install the Win10 creators update or however that thing is called - after that install the new balanced AMD power plan and report if that changed something (BIOS and windows/poer plan updates).

I have the latest BIOS already installed but I'll check the MSI forums to see if they have any beta BIOS for me to try out. I also have the creators update installed since I bought and then downloaded this copy of Windows 10 from Microsoft about 4 days ago. In the meantime I'll restart and go check my voltages in the BIOS just to see where it's currently at

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You ll have to download and install the new AMD Power plan manually!!!

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Already manually installed. Also here's the only voltages the BIOS shows me 

voltages.PNG

power.PNG

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I also noticed a sound issue while testing out tanks again. The sound issue can be heard from 4 minutes into this video and then it fixes itself 11 seconds later. The freezing also once again happens during the last 20 seconds. Would the sound issue signify that it's a driver problem? Here is the link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/137034900

 

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Get yourself ProcessExplorer and let it run (sort by CPU time) parallel to your applications. When you have such a freeze look up what process is using so many system resources usually it's either CPU-time or disk I/O

 

 

Unbenannt.jpg

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Downloaded and it looks like theres 2 things that seem to happen.

1. When I load into a game the I/O spikes up a lot(I assume that's fine and that's just because we're loading in, etc)

2. When the hangs happen it looks like the CPU completely disregards any running applications and reduces its usage to 1-2% with the largest process being audiodg.exe unless I'm streaming while it shuts off and then its amddvr at ~1.5% and the total cpu usage being 3-4%. Two pictures attached showing the drop in CPU usage with imgur since file size is too big.

It looks like instead of using too many resources the CPU doesn't use much of anything.

http://imgur.com/a/6YYwV

 

Edited by _Dean_

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1) Check your CPU temps just to make sure - sadly I'm not 100% which porgramms are correct for Ryzen atm - but HwInfo should also work. MSI Afterburner has a good time graph ... .

2) Also please report your VCore under hvy CPU load - NOT your VID (which is worrying enough with 1.55V).

3) Are you running the CPU at stock frequencies?

4) What case and CPU cooler are you using - picture of inside of the case with CPU cooler visible?

5) Do you have an additional 120/140mm fan flying around for testing purposes/or could you use an easy to reach case fan an demount it?

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39 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

 

1) Check your CPU temps just to make sure - sadly I'm not 100% which porgramms are correct for Ryzen atm - but HwInfo should also work. MSI Afterburner has a good time graph ... .

2) Also please report your VCore under hvy CPU load - NOT your VID (which is worrying enough with 1.55V).

3) Are you running the CPU at stock frequencies?

4) What case and CPU cooler are you using - picture of inside of the case with CPU cooler visible?

5) Do you have an additional 120/140mm fan flying around for testing purposes/or could you use an easy to reach case fan an demount it?

1&2. Pic included of temps, etc after 2-3 minutes of a prime95 stress test running

3. Yes its stock 3.2 frequency with boost up to 3.6(even under load it only boosts to 3.39 max)

4. The 95W AMD Wraith Spire cooler that came with it. Using NXZT S340 Case(both case fans plugged into PSU instead of motherboard)

5. I may have a fan from my old pc lying around would have to check. 

Also note: PSU is running on hybrid mode where it's fan doesn't continuously spin. Seasonic SS-650KM. Same thing with GPU.

link to case pic and voltages/temps: http://imgur.com/a/i4s5x

 

Edit: The only things I've changed in the BIOS would be my Memory speed and timings. That's currently running at 2666 and 16-18-18-36

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I had a suspicion that you might be running into a voltage/temp problem (resulting in throtteling) that included the MB VRMs, but your fan setup with a top down blower and two fans exhausting air right above the two groups of VRMs make that seem unlikely. Forget about the additional fan - I wanted you test if blowing air directly on the CPU Core VRMs (left of your CPU) has an effect - that wont make a big difference temp wise with your setup.

 

What I want you to try is now is lowering the VCore in your BIOS resulting in load VCore in Prime95 that goes down to 1.30V if possible or even lower. Now I don't know how much experience you have with overclocking (undervolting in this case), but usually there is a difference between the VCore set in the BIOS and the one under load in windows. Example: VCore set in BIOS to 1.20V results in 1.15V under load in windows (Vdrop - it's normal), it's very rare that the resulting VCore in windows is the same or at a higher level than in the BIOS. You ll have to try and fiddle a little bit with your BIOS settings for VCore - I 'd start with 1.40V and look where it gets you under Prime95 and go from there (lower). If your system gets unstable or crashes/freezes, raise the voltage a little.

Trying to find out here if something strage is going on with your VRM and the board throttles. Lower voltage results in lower power drawn and less stress/heat for the VRMs.

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28 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

I had a suspicion that you might be running into a voltage/temp problem (resulting in throtteling) that included the MB VRMs, but your fan setup with a top down blower and two fans exhausting air right above the two groups of VRMs make that seem unlikely. Forget about the additional fan - I wanted you test if blowing air directly on the CPU Core VRMs (left of your CPU) has an effect - that wont make a big difference temp wise with your setup.

 

What I want you to try is now is lowering the VCore in your BIOS resulting in load VCore in Prime95 that goes down to 1.30V if possible or even lower. Now I don't know how much experience you have with overclocking (undervolting in this case), but usually there is a difference between the VCore set in the BIOS and the one under load in windows. Example: VCore set in BIOS to 1.20V results in 1.15V under load in windows (Vdrop - it's normal), it's very rare that the resulting VCore in windows is the same or at a higher level than in the BIOS. You ll have to try and fiddle a little bit with your BIOS settings for VCore - I 'd start with 1.40V and look where it gets you under Prime95 and go from there (lower). If your system gets unstable or crashes/freezes, raise the voltage a little.

Trying to find out here if something strage is going on with your VRM and the board throttles. Lower voltage results in lower power drawn and less stress/heat for the VRMs.

I'll change it and see what happens when I get home in an hour or so. However I think I might know what messed up the voltages, etc now that I think about it. When I installed my i/o shield I messed up with it and only noticed when I tried to put in my network cable. A couple of the metallic pieces from the shield weren't in the right spot and one of them was in a USB 3.1 slot with the other being in the network spot. Maybe that caused a short or something with the USB slot and the bios to change the voltages to something higher than it needed to be at when I first booted it?

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2 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

I'll change it and see what happens when I get home in an hour or so. However I think I might know what messed up the voltages, etc now that I think about it. When I installed my i/o shield I messed up with it and only noticed when I tried to put in my network cable. A couple of the metallic pieces from the shield weren't in the right spot and one of them was in a USB 3.1 slot with the other being in the network spot.

Did you power on the system before you realised what had happened?

2 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

Maybe that caused a short or something with the USB slot and the bios to change the voltages to something higher than it needed to be at when I first booted it?

No - that doesn't change any BIOS setting. What I was aiming at with my approach was that your VRMs being faulty maybe.

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Yeah I powered it on and then I realized the problem about a day later. Does this mean I may need to possibly replace the motherboard or will it be good once I lower the vcore, etc?

@Folterknecht I put the Vcore down to 1.3 and the max with prime95 was 1.296, although the min was higher at 1.288. The VID is still at 1.55 Should I attempt to get it even lower now or what's next?

Edited by _Dean_

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8 hours ago, _Dean_ said:

Yeah I powered it on and then I realized the problem about a day later. Does this mean I may need to possibly replace the motherboard or will it be good once I lower the vcore, etc?

Not sure

8 hours ago, _Dean_ said:

@Folterknecht I put the Vcore down to 1.3 and the max with prime95 was 1.296, although the min was higher at 1.288. The VID is still at 1.55 Should I attempt to get it even lower now or what's next?

 

Did you notice any difference in the behavior of the system in regards to freezing with th elower voltage?

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I still have the freezing problems. I don't think it helped much, if at all. Although I did notice that as I played more matches the freezing issue seemed to be less pronounced(this behavior happened before and after changing vcore ) I also noticed that the VDD current went up quite a bit at times. Is it normal for it to go up to 41.67 A while gaming and 69.882 A when doing a stress test? Here's the voltages both while gaming and while performing another stress test

Theres also the case of the sixth core showing a bigger spike sometimes when it freezes while in tanks(noticed it once will keep monitoring to see if its the norm.)

http://imgur.com/a/djF5a

 

 

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52 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

I still have the freezing problems. I don't think it helped much, if at all.

"ok" - you can leave the lower voltage settings enabled in BIOS (or save them as a profile). Safes power, generates less heat (->noise) and increases life span of your components.

Quote

I also noticed that the VDD current went up quite a bit at times. Is it normal for it to go up to 41.67 A while gaming and 69.882 A when doing a stress test? Here's the voltages both while gaming and while performing another stress test

That is normal and logical - basic physics, you can't cheat that mistress. As the voltage is more or less "fixed", the current has to go up.

Quote

Theres also the case of the sixth core showing a bigger spike sometimes when it freezes while in tanks(noticed it once will keep monitoring to see if its the norm.)

http://imgur.com/a/djF5a

 

Did you investigate what the process spikes there, is it always the same one? (Hover with your mouse cursor over it to dsiplay the name).

 

                                                                                 

Unplug every USB devise from your back panel and put mouse and keyboard in the front USB ports. Also unplug the internet cable.

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I tried unplugging it all. The issues seem to occur when I'm using the internet and not when I'm opening anything when not using it(makes sense since it froze when being connected to online games, streaming music through iTunes, and when I had the internet open.) Although I could be wrong and haven't really tried opening/using anything that tends to freeze it while testing offline. I've tried redownloading the network drivers, using a different network cable, using a different port on my modem, and restarting modem just in case it was any of those. It seems to have worked. 

I think when I installed the driver something may have caused it to mess up then, definitely something network related. The issue seems fixed after reinstalling drivers. Could it be because I installed that first over any other drivers on the pc that it messed it up somehow?

After that I've plugged the peripherals into the back and still haven't experienced any further problems. Thankfully it looks like the i/o shield didn't cause problems to the motherboard.

Edit: I've also looked into the 1.55 VID and it seems like there's a few Reddit posts about it and it seems like their Ryzen also shows that on hwinfo

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I was wrong, I still keep freezing, although it seems to be way less often now.

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Last suggestion - Win10 reinstall.

 

1) Make a 1:1 image of your current running system

2) Go to Microsofts website and get the latest W10 installer. Furthermore visit AMDs site and get the latest drivers (chipset, USB ...).  LAN and Sound you have to download from other sites "Realtek". Make sure you get the drivers for the right chip (Realtek ALC892  is your sound) not sure how your networking chip is called (HwInfo or device manager should list that).

3) Make an offline installation (unplug ethernet cable) and install the chipset driver first, restart, next driver, restart and so on. Disable aoutomatic driver updates in Windows before you plug in the cable.

 

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Random question since I don't know much about this stuff. Could the gpu heat effect the freezing at all if it's located like a centimeter above the b350 chipset on the board? The gpu fans don't run at all until the gpu reaches 60 Celsius(or 70, I'm unsure on that part)

Would the constant heat coming from the gpu heat sink have that effect or not?

3bTYjqv.jpg

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34 minutes ago, _Dean_ said:

Random question since I don't know much about this stuff. Could the gpu heat effect the freezing at all if it's located like a centimeter above the b350 chipset on the board? The gpu fans don't run at all until the gpu reaches 60 Celsius(or 70, I'm unsure on that part)

Would the constant heat coming from the gpu heat sink have that effect or not?

 

 

no

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