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Liberty75

Is something wrong with the new Match Maker ?

34 posts in this topic

I am usually better than average in tier 6 tanks so when I struggled to get wins I began to notice that most of my matches were tier 8 and I was constantly becoming powerless to influence games enough to pull out the odd win here or there to pull my win rate above 50%. It was so bad actually that my win rate after 50 games is 42%, 21 wins and 29 losses. I played these 50 games over three days with no other battles in any other tanks.

The new tiering possibilities seems to be broken down like this, using the VK3000D as the sample tank and in order of difficulty:

Top tier (ex. Tier 6 to 4)
Partial Top Tier (Tier 6 to 5)
Middle Tier (Tier 7-5)
Only Tier (Only tier 6)
Partial Bottom Tier (Tier 7-6)
Bottom Tier (Tier 8-6)

After 50 games, a decent sample size, here are the results (WN8 2435 for these 50 games):

Top = 5 (4-1 80%)
Partial Top = 0 (NA)
Middle = 5 (3-2 60%)
Only Tier 6 = 13 (5-8 38%)
Partial Bottom = 1 (1-0 100%)
Bottom = 26 (8-18 31%)

Bottom tier games dominated my play time more than any other bracket combined. If I add together all the other brackets to get a win rate, it is 54%. Which is lower than I hoped it would be, but compared to being bottom tier with a WR of 31%, it is amazing.

Is this an isolated incident or have others been experiencing the same thing? I'd personally like to know so that I can save whatever is left of my WR and not play tier 6 anymore until this is addressed by WG.

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I wonder if it can be addressed without noticeably extending queue times? There's always a glut of Tier 8 and Tier 10 tanks in the queue. So many great Tier 6 tanks that are rendered pretty useless, except in the most skilled hands, when constantly seeing Tier 8 OP premium vehicles. Rage sold my Cromwell last summer because of it. I was hoping the new MM in 9.18 would fix this. But from what you're saying...

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If you are in a tier 6 tank, you should never see more than 3 tier 8s in a battle.  I agree that tier 6 has in general gotten a lot tougher, but I think it has a lot more to do with all of the new premiums rather than MM.

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yes, it keeps giving 13v13s. its so annoying.

 

its a step in the right direction, but its not perfect. yet. I think it needs to be a little bit more lenient. like, not too much, but enough where it can actually create full fucking games. 

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I like the idea of only 3 top tier tanks in a three tier spread. In practice though, the results for me have been disappointing. WG should equalize the top tanks to a certain extent. A recent example from my time playing in the VK3001D: I have three M46 Patton KRs (not platooned!?) on my team and the enemy team had three VK100.01 heavy tanks platooned. Needless to say, those three tier 8 VK heavies plowed through all opposition and it was an easy win for them.

Equalizing the tank classes at the top OR weighing tanks more correctly per team would help. OR maybe only 3 top tiers is too few?

Just now, Liberty75 said:

OR maybe only 3 top tiers is too few?

I can't believe I said that! We wanted fewer top tier tanks and now that we received them, it might be worse than before! "Be careful what you wish for!" My mother was right! :)

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2 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

I like 4-5-6 a little better

That would be better. Although, I think at this point, I would rather have the old MM back. I never minded fighting higher tiers once in a while because I would see a good mix of games in where I was in the middle or top tier. That isn't happening now at tier 6.

I'm guessing that tier 8 is the sweet spot with server population with all the premiums. If this is true, there will be more high tier tanks in the pool of players waiting to enter battles than before the change and more players at tier 6 will get stuck fighting tanks 2 tiers higher than them more often now, as per my recent experience.

This is a serious flaw in the new MM, if it is the case.

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Since this patch most of my battles in my T-44 have been vs tier 9 and 10. I've dropped my WN8 by 200 since this patch. My win rate has stayed the same but with the higher tiers it's been difficult to score over 1000 damage due to being out armored and out maneuvered. And I've been surviving most of the battles. I've given up on getting that 3rd MOE.

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9 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

yes, it keeps giving 13v13s. its so annoying.

Good to know I'm not the only one that's noticed this. In my first 50 games since the patch I've had 13v13 at least 5 or 6 times, and I've even had lower numbers than that on another handful of occasions. Very rarely did I ever get less than a 15v15 matchup prior, unless the server population was at very low numbers.

This part of the matchmaker can't be functioning as intended. What tiers are you noticing the 13v13 matches in? Pretty sure all the times it happened for me was in either tier 10 or tier 9.

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Just now, Balthazars said:

Good to know I'm not the only one that's noticed this. In my first 50 games since the patch I've had 13v13 at least 5 or 6 times, and I've even had lower numbers than that on another handful of occasions. Very rarely did I ever get less than a 15v15 matchup prior, unless the server population was at very low numbers.

This part of the matchmaker can't be functioning as intended. What tiers are you noticing the 13v13 matches in? Pretty sure all the times it happened for me was in either tier 10 or tier 9.

at least half of my games are 13v13

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I find bottom tier games to be quite carryable now, especially at tier 6 where most 6s can do work on 7s.

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1 minute ago, Assassin7 said:

at least half of my games are 13v13

Oh wow, ok that certainly seems odd. You play on NA West right? I'm on NA East, and usually playing mornings in Aus so server population is reasonably high. Would be interesting to see if I can replicate by playing at a time when the server population is lower. Is it all tiers or just t10 and t9?

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Just now, Balthazars said:

Oh wow, ok that certainly seems odd. You play on NA West right? I'm on NA East, and usually playing mornings in Aus so server population is reasonably high. Would be interesting to see if I can replicate by playing at a time when the server population is lower. Is it all tiers or just t10 and t9?

its been pretty much 100% tier 8-10 play, I haven't gone lower than that since the patch IIRC. mostly tier 9. and yeah, NA west at dead hours. like, 3am EST? 

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It feels like tier 8s are doomed right now. Every game I play in mine I am put into a tier 10 game. Then when I play in a tier 10 tank, I get like 13 v 13 games only and the balance of tank types is out of whack, like having 7 Grille 15s on one team for example.

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Changes coming to MM

https://na.wargaming.net/support/news/555

Quote

There are plans to release Micropatch 0.9.18_2 on April 27th, 2017

Maintenance will begin at 03:30 Pacific Time (10:30 UTC) and will last approximately one hour.

During maintenance, the World of Tanks servers will be unavailable.

Patch notes:

The matchmaking mechanics were adjusted as follows:

  1. The top tier of three-tier battles will comprise the same number of tank destroyers, SPGs, and light tanks (of both Platoon and solo players) in both teams. For each of these vehicle types, the number of vehicles will be the same in both teams (i.e. they will be treated separately). In addition, the top tier will comprise the same aggregate number of medium and heavy tanks in both teams, but these vehicle types will not be treated separately.
  2. The top tier of three-tier battles can have only one SPG.

 

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Those are good sensible changes. Bads will still complain.

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Haven't seen any real issues, although the "your side gets a Leo1, STB ,Cent AX  the other team gets 3x maus on Himmelsdorf- have fun!" seems to happen a lot, and I've had a few of those 13v13 games/

Only really "odd" thing I've noticed is I'm getting next to no assault or encounter missions, I've had a couple encounter, not sure if I've had an assault mission since the patch.

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I have been playing a bit of 5/6/7 and noticed a similar trend the last week since the patch and frequently saw tier 7/8/9 respectively.  No records kept so slight confirmation bias possible, but to my best recollection top tier in no more than 10 of ~80 matches.

The other question I have is that I swear I read or saw somewhere there was supposed to be a preference system in place now if you were in 2 or more bottom matches at bottom tier?

Another disparity on the teams has been the whacky team compositions -  Side A Tiger I/ E25 /E25/ GW Panther  Side B T34-1/Tiger I/T29/T29

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7 minutes ago, xWulffx said:

I have been playing a bit of 5/6/7 and noticed a similar trend the last week since the patch and frequently saw tier 7/8/9 respectively.  No records kept so slight confirmation bias possible, but to my best recollection top tier in no more than 10 of ~80 matches.

The other question I have is that I swear I read or saw somewhere there was supposed to be a preference system in place now if you were in 2 or more bottom matches at bottom tier?

Another disparity on the teams has been the whacky team compositions -  Side A Tiger I/ E25 /E25/ GW Panther  Side B T34-1/Tiger I/T29/T29

Yeah, I've been getting a ton of bottom tier matches since the patch, may be a part of why I'm enjoying my t9 lights so much. I haven't noticed the preference system, went 10 matches bottom tier in a row last night platooning with friends.

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12 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

I find bottom tier games to be quite carryable now, especially at tier 6 where most 6s can do work on 7s.

I agree with this, above stats aside. I've never minded higher tier battles and like the challenge. With 9.18 I feel like I can make more of a difference than before. The direction WG went in seems to be for the better.

2 hours ago, 8at_eNTrOpY said:

Thanks for the information. Hopefully this update will alleviate some of the inconsistencies between the tanks on each team.

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@Liberty75 i don't think what you have seen is isolated. To accomodate only 3 top tier it means that a lot of game are now going to be bottom-mid tier with very few top tier from now. 

 

I personnally don't know what to think of it yet. Obviously you should be able to do more while being bottom tier with only 3 top tier, but being bottom tier so much might be a big grief personnally. 

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2 hours ago, DHP said:

@Liberty75 i don't think what you have seen is isolated. To accomodate only 3 top tier it means that a lot of game are now going to be bottom-mid tier with very few top tier from now. 

 

I personnally don't know what to think of it yet. Obviously you should be able to do more while being bottom tier with only 3 top tier, but being bottom tier so much might be a big grief personnally. 

But why is bottom tier so bad? fighting tanks 1 tier higher is not that bad, and there are barely top tiers, if the top tier is a light or arty, there are only 2 top tiers (basically)

new mm comes down to:

  • 7/15 bottom (47%)
  • 5/15 mid (33%)
  • 3/15 top (20%)

you will be more often bottom tier with new mm, but you wont get games with 5 tier 10, 6 tier 9 TDs and a bunch of tier 8 tanks / scouts / arty as fodder (where you are effective the only tier 8 tank)

Mm will now also (hopefully) give less games with 10 or so tier 10s, and the rest crap tanks, because those games are also awefull (including when driving tier 10 yourself)

ps: im onlt afraid spmm tanks end UP either OP or UP due to this, same platoons can end beiing OP or total crap (especially as tier 9, 2x E50 vs 3 noobs in tier 9s and the rest tier 7 and 8 fodder? i can see 90% winratio on good days, as E50 you only get screwed by RNG, random arty, a team full of 45% bots or a game with 10 tier 10 tanks on campinovka, and the arty and mm screw ups will be removed...

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They only additional change I want is to try and also balance heavies at least within a range of +/- 2. Having 7 mediums on one team and 7 heavies on the other is stupid. There were clearly enough tanks for this match to have a relatively even split. I don't think it would make matches take any longer to fire, it would just result in a better balance of tanks between teams.

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4 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

But why is bottom tier so bad? fighting tanks 1 tier higher is not that bad, and there are barely top tiers, if the top tier is a light or arty, there are only 2 top tiers (basically)

new mm comes down to:

  • 7/15 bottom (47%)
  • 5/15 mid (33%)
  • 3/15 top (20%)

you will be more often bottom tier with new mm, but you wont get games with 5 tier 10, 6 tier 9 TDs and a bunch of tier 8 tanks / scouts / arty as fodder (where you are effective the only tier 8 tank)

Mm will now also (hopefully) give less games with 10 or so tier 10s, and the rest crap tanks, because those games are also awefull (including when driving tier 10 yourself)

ps: im onlt afraid spmm tanks end UP either OP or UP due to this, same platoons can end beiing OP or total crap (especially as tier 9, 2x E50 vs 3 noobs in tier 9s and the rest tier 7 and 8 fodder? i can see 90% winratio on good days, as E50 you only get screwed by RNG, random arty, a team full of 45% bots or a game with 10 tier 10 tanks on campinovka, and the arty and mm screw ups will be removed...

Being bottom tier is not bad and is expected. It is the rate of being bottom tier that should be worrisome. Being top tier only 10% of the time is not very equitable. While you and I are not phased very much by being bottom tier, other players out there tend to be bothered by this. Even I would like to be top tier more than 10% of the time. With the new MM, I think 20-25% would be a more ideal situation. And even this would only be every 1 out of 4 or 5 games as top tier.

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8 hours ago, Liberty75 said:

Being bottom tier is not bad and is expected. It is the rate of being bottom tier that should be worrisome. Being top tier only 10% of the time is not very equitable. While you and I are not phased very much by being bottom tier, other players out there tend to be bothered by this. Even I would like to be top tier more than 10% of the time. With the new MM, I think 20-25% would be a more ideal situation. And even this would only be every 1 out of 4 or 5 games as top tier.

But you can only be top tier only so much with 3-5-7 format or else someone else is going to be bottom tier way more. 

 

 

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