CraBeatOff

I WANNA GO FAST: The T-100LT Appreciation Thread

112 posts in this topic

On 4/27/2017 at 3:09 PM, nabucodonsor said:

It can also ram all the other lights since it weighs like a medium. And the gun is not that bad if you consider the aim time and it has the highest pen and alpha of all LTs.

The T-100 wieghs 15 tons.

The WZ-132-1 is able to ram the other lights because it weighs 40 tons. 

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5 hours ago, tajj7 said:

The T-100 wieghs 15 tons.

The WZ-132-1 is able to ram the other lights because it weighs 40 tons. 

Yes the WZ can ram other mediums

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None of which addresses the glory of the T-100LT. 6-7-8k combined games ezez in this troll machine. It's actually vision games/kite capable in a way nothing else in tier is. Camo and vision to set up a shot(s), and mobility and camo to dodge and disappear. And the thought that "its too far to drive to do X" is more or less never applicable.

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Bought it last night, it's very fun but ultimately it's not very competitive. Had a woeful run of teams so that will have tempered my opinion, but enemy meds just crap on you. Many will literally see you and yolo you because they so easily DPM and out HP (though that is common for lights)

What it actually feels like is the old lights being -2, because essentially you are in tier 10 games (some of which are all tier 10 where this struggles the most) but you have a tier 8 gun (maybe a tier 8.5 gun) and tier 8 HP, so you feel quite ineffective at times, especially early game because if it's not a map where you can provide spotting it's hard to make a difference.

The best games I had in it were games that go the distance and not on cluster fuck maps, as soon as the game is spread out a bit it starts to come into it's own. The mobility is insane, way more than medium mobility, you just don't notice hills because you are going up them faster than most meds go on flat ground. This gives you insane flexibility, you can basically toy with enemy tanks especially if they are slower, you just keep re-appearing in different positions where they can't predict. One of the few awful teams I actually managed to carry to a win was on Ovelord, they had multiple TDs left, an arty, a Type 4 Heavy and a 1390. Once I'd got rid of the 1390, dealing with the rest was easy because they were not supporting each other meaning I could easily keep popping up in new positions, the tanks is so fast this hardly harms your DPM either. Type 4 was basically helpless and had no idea which way to turn, by the time he'd turned his turret and hull to head after me I was in a new spot shooting him.

Also any lone slow heavy or TD, is easy to rush down and flank/circle. The tank is so fast that you make some mediums look completely pedestrian, I had one game where I was alone against an Strv 103B, an arty and a Pilot, even though I was a one shot I took the pilot down from like 1k HP by just running him ragged. Sadly the arty fluked a blind shot to finish me off whilst I was trying to find him.

The issue lies though with getting to that point, if the team starts failing the tank has no presence on most maps to do anything about it. No HP, no alpha, no DPM, no pen to take most heavies on frontally, even an E50 or the like frontally you can struggle.  

You take a hit from a 390 alpha gun and that is pretty 30% of your HP. You see the slide happening but you can't stop it and without isolated targets or team mates destracting you are essentially a very fast tier 8 mediums against tier 10s.

The horrible accuracy didn't seem to be an issue, whilst I didn't actively look to snipe when the chances arose the gun performed ok, it's probably the shell velocity and the very low dispersion meaning even tracking and adjusting for moving targets at long range is no issue.

Gun handling aside that accuracy is phenomenal, the thing is basically always fully aimed.

The DPM is noticeable, you get behind stuff and you just feel like you are waiting to kill them, getting like 270 rolls every 7s is not fun, when 140s are doing 320 nearly every 5s.

View range is ok with a maxed out crew though there is no reason why you should have such low view range, Strvs in particular are complete pains.

The tanks needs some buffs I think.

I'd like to see the view range go from the 390m to 410m.

HP from 1500 to at least 1650, if not 1700, same should probably apply to all the tier 10 lights, it's stupid you face tier 8 mediums that have the same HP as you, this is supposed to be a tier 10 tank give it some presence. 

And then DPM, I'm fine with the bad accuracy, the lower alpha and the lower pen, but the lower DPM is just over kill, it should at least be good tier 9 standards of DPM so 2600 plus base, but realistically it should be more like 3k like the Russian meds, they have more alpha, more pen, more accuracy, more HP, more armour, they shouldn't have an 800 DPM advantage. 

I'll update more when I've had some more games, I started off around 2.8-2.9k DPG but I got a good 6 or 7 teams in a row that had 5 plus zero damagers in so my performance plummetted. 

Overall it's a very fun and challenging tank, I like playing it, even after the horrible teams I was still generally having fun and the few wins I earned when you've driven like 7km plus you feel you've really worked the tank to the max.

But several aspects of the tank just feel arbitrarily gimped for no real reason.  This tank with 410m view range, 1.7k HP and 2.7k base DPM would be far from OP. 

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On 4.05.2017 at 3:14 PM, tajj7 said:

Bought it last night, it's very fun but ultimately it's not very competitive. Had a woeful run of teams so that will have tempered my opinion, but enemy meds just crap on you. Many will literally see you and yolo you because they so easily DPM and out HP (though that is common for lights)

What it actually feels like is the old lights being -2, because essentially you are in tier 10 games (some of which are all tier 10 where this struggles the most) but you have a tier 8 gun (maybe a tier 8.5 gun) and tier 8 HP, so you feel quite ineffective at times, especially early game because if it's not a map where you can provide spotting it's hard to make a difference.

The best games I had in it were games that go the distance and not on cluster fuck maps, as soon as the game is spread out a bit it starts to come into it's own. The mobility is insane, way more than medium mobility, you just don't notice hills because you are going up them faster than most meds go on flat ground. This gives you insane flexibility, you can basically toy with enemy tanks especially if they are slower, you just keep re-appearing in different positions where they can't predict. One of the few awful teams I actually managed to carry to a win was on Ovelord, they had multiple TDs left, an arty, a Type 4 Heavy and a 1390. Once I'd got rid of the 1390, dealing with the rest was easy because they were not supporting each other meaning I could easily keep popping up in new positions, the tanks is so fast this hardly harms your DPM either. Type 4 was basically helpless and had no idea which way to turn, by the time he'd turned his turret and hull to head after me I was in a new spot shooting him.

Also any lone slow heavy or TD, is easy to rush down and flank/circle. The tank is so fast that you make some mediums look completely pedestrian, I had one game where I was alone against an Strv 103B, an arty and a Pilot, even though I was a one shot I took the pilot down from like 1k HP by just running him ragged. Sadly the arty fluked a blind shot to finish me off whilst I was trying to find him.

The issue lies though with getting to that point, if the team starts failing the tank has no presence on most maps to do anything about it. No HP, no alpha, no DPM, no pen to take most heavies on frontally, even an E50 or the like frontally you can struggle.  

You take a hit from a 390 alpha gun and that is pretty 30% of your HP. You see the slide happening but you can't stop it and without isolated targets or team mates destracting you are essentially a very fast tier 8 mediums against tier 10s.

The horrible accuracy didn't seem to be an issue, whilst I didn't actively look to snipe when the chances arose the gun performed ok, it's probably the shell velocity and the very low dispersion meaning even tracking and adjusting for moving targets at long range is no issue.

Gun handling aside that accuracy is phenomenal, the thing is basically always fully aimed.

The DPM is noticeable, you get behind stuff and you just feel like you are waiting to kill them, getting like 270 rolls every 7s is not fun, when 140s are doing 320 nearly every 5s.

View range is ok with a maxed out crew though there is no reason why you should have such low view range, Strvs in particular are complete pains.

The tanks needs some buffs I think.

I'd like to see the view range go from the 390m to 410m.

HP from 1500 to at least 1650, if not 1700, same should probably apply to all the tier 10 lights, it's stupid you face tier 8 mediums that have the same HP as you, this is supposed to be a tier 10 tank give it some presence. 

And then DPM, I'm fine with the bad accuracy, the lower alpha and the lower pen, but the lower DPM is just over kill, it should at least be good tier 9 standards of DPM so 2600 plus base, but realistically it should be more like 3k like the Russian meds, they have more alpha, more pen, more accuracy, more HP, more armour, they shouldn't have an 800 DPM advantage. 

I'll update more when I've had some more games, I started off around 2.8-2.9k DPG but I got a good 6 or 7 teams in a row that had 5 plus zero damagers in so my performance plummetted. 

Overall it's a very fun and challenging tank, I like playing it, even after the horrible teams I was still generally having fun and the few wins I earned when you've driven like 7km plus you feel you've really worked the tank to the max.

But several aspects of the tank just feel arbitrarily gimped for no real reason.  This tank with 410m view range, 1.7k HP and 2.7k base DPM would be far from OP. 

They could buff pen and hp and it would be balanced. 

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3 hours ago, hazzgar said:

They could buff pen and hp and it would be balanced. 

i think WG don't want them to have pen or DPM so they can't damage carry though. Can kinda understand VR is so meds are still competative, but hp seems kinda low for Tier Xs like honestly....

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14 hours ago, HemanathanRX7 said:

i think WG don't want them to have pen or DPM so they can't damage carry though. Can kinda understand VR is so meds are still competative, but hp seems kinda low for Tier Xs like honestly....

I'm just against what some people want aka t10 med dpm and t9 med hp, t10 med vr when you have insane camo and speed. I know it's the corridor meta but if WG makes lights too strong they will become super broken past the midpoint of the game. Yeah you won't be able to influence the game early on but later lights would basically become as annoying as the e25. 410 vr, 2700 base dpm an 1700 hp would not be broken in the hands of idiots but anyone from dark green and above would abuse the shit out of it given speed and camo with t-100 being the biggest problem here. Imagine one of those fuckers climbing to a strong position which in them is super easy. You are SOL if he gets there.

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It wasn't broken on test with it's original stats and that was mainly fighting other tier 10 lights. It would have probably been weak on the live meta even with it's old DPM, view range and alpha damage. 

This tank is basically a tier 8 that goes fast and ultimately that is crap.

On Vbaddict this tanks is currently struggling to out damage the tier 10 arties, the same tier 10 arties that had their damage heavily nerfed so they wouldn't be damage dealers. And that is with most players playing it likely to be very good.

Limited battles and above average players and it's currently managing sub 1.5k DPG and just breaking 50% win rate, when you compare it to tanks like the Kranvagn and TVP on vbaddict in the first few weeks they were probably at 57-58% WR and over 2.5k damage, that is how woefully underpar this tank is for a tier 10. 

Even having a small number of very good players almost exclusively playing it and not being exposed yet to the average masses and it is still one of the worst performing tier 10s. Imagine what it's stats are going to be when other lesser players get it. I'm predicting sub 1.1k damage for a tier 10 tank and I bet it will rival the worst win rates. 

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1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

It wasn't broken on test with it's original stats and that was mainly fighting other tier 10 lights. It would have probably been weak on the live meta even with it's old DPM, view range and alpha damage. 

This tank is basically a tier 8 that goes fast and ultimately that is crap.

On Vbaddict this tanks is currently struggling to out damage the tier 10 arties, the same tier 10 arties that had their damage heavily nerfed so they wouldn't be damage dealers. And that is with most players playing it likely to be very good.

Limited battles and above average players and it's currently managing sub 1.5k DPG and just breaking 50% win rate, when you compare it to tanks like the Kranvagn and TVP on vbaddict in the first few weeks they were probably at 57-58% WR and over 2.5k damage, that is how woefully underpar this tank is for a tier 10. 

Even having a small number of very good players almost exclusively playing it and not being exposed yet to the average masses and it is still one of the worst performing tier 10s. Imagine what it's stats are going to be when other lesser players get it. I'm predicting sub 1.1k damage for a tier 10 tank and I bet it will rival the worst win rates. 

It's matched against other crappy light tanks though and still is one of the best packages for scouting in the game considering speed, camo and armour (?).

Then again, it's completely screwed in terms of firepower, so I'm not sure how that'll work out on city maps. Given how good of a scout it is, I would think that it would at least be a mediocre tank all things considered. but other T-10 lts like the 132 which can actually pull off a combat role are likely to win more consistently. 

The real question is, why even bother playing lights @T10 when you can run LTTBs and Blackgods and Type 62s and 64s all day? 

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Because you wanna go fastest! I'm seeing 2700 dpg + 1200 assisted so far. I know I can increase that because my first 18 had unusually bad mm and maps and tallied 1800 dpg or so. That combined amount is reasonably close to an X medium. We're seeing good players at just over 3k, likely with more to come. This doesn't mean i don't want to see buffs though.

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I don't know that it needs buffs.  How good does it have to be? I've already seen a few (played by purples) with huge games, simply because they found a spot, camp sniped, and if theyw ere spotted, relocated to somewhere else so fast it was almost like there was a second tank. Speaking as the average player, the thing is also ridiculous to fight on a lot of semi open maps if a good player is driving it.

If you increase it's DPM and/or Pen,it's going to be another tank that's insanely good in the hands of a good player, and complete shit in the hands of all the bad one who are on your team trying to stat pad in it.

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12 minutes ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

If you increase it's DPM and/or Pen,it's going to be another tank that's insanely good in the hands of a good player, and complete shit in the hands of all the bad one who are on your team trying to stat pad in it.

Isn't that kinda the idea for most tanks? Ie that their performance scales?

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20 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Isn't that kinda the idea for most tanks? Ie that their performance scales?

Yeah, but there's a difference.

Look at the Obj 252, or even the Maus. in the hands of a crap player, they're both terrible. In hte hands of a good player, they're pretty much the poster child for OP tanks.

Compare that to a Leopard 1,  useless in the hands of a bad player, dangerous in the hands of a good one, but no one is going to call it OP.

IMO (and keeping in mind this is based on only a few games I've seen them on the other team, I'm like 200K away from unlocking it myself)) the thing is lethal in the hands of a good player, it's almost (if not quite) as stealthy shooting as those Swedish TDS, it relocates faster than (almost?) anything else in the game , it has amazing soft stats for the gun. 

So if you give it actual "competitive" (ie match or close to it) with T10 mediums, suddenly you have an insanely fast almost invisible tank with pretty decent DPM. With the added benefit of it's like half the size (or smaller) than most of the  T10 mediums.

Same thing with spotting range, if you increase it, suddenly you're going to have an insanely fast invisible tank with a 500M view range. Even while moving you're going to spot many tanks behind bushes before they can see you.

As always, I'm average- not great, never going to be one of you fancy unicum players, but calling for this one to be buffed seems a little less like "it needs it for game balance" and a little more like "Oh Dear God the things I'd be able to do to pubbies" 

End of teh day it is a scout, if you want to put out massive damage, play something else. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Yeah, but there's a difference.

Look at the Obj 252, or even the Maus. in the hands of a crap player, they're both terrible. In hte hands of a good player, they're pretty much the poster child for OP tanks

Except that according to the graphs (or at least the last versions i saw of them) the 252 and maus are not terrible in the hands of terrible players. Hence the issue with those two.

27 minutes ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Compare that to a Leopard 1,  useless in the hands of a bad player, dangerous in the hands of a good one, but no one is going to call it OP.

Hence its performance is said to scale. The idea would be for the lights to scale as well. As to whether they do or not i suspect we're a bit short of data thus far.

As to the other bits relating to vision - imo the issue lies in how often all that vision advantage you refer to (and yes, they would excel at it) would actually come into play, and moreover be battle defining. With the current map set i suspect the answer would be 'not a lot'.

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It's also not amazing in the hands of good players, it's certainly a long way worse for me than me in tier 10 mediums.

Vbaddict would also suggest that it's way worse, most of the people who have the tank now will be at least above average if not much higher, but even with that small sample of good players it's one of the worst performing tier 10s. 

I'd expect more than 2.7k + 1.2k from a 4k recent WN8 player as well, despite what @CraBeatOff says. 

In the hands of the average player it's going to be woefully awful, likely to be outperformed by most of the tier 9 lights IMO.

I went through some of the good games I played and tried to work out instances where the tank's strengths enabled me to do something a tier 10 med might not have been able to do, most of the time I couldn't find them, in most situations a tier 10 med will be able to do similar, and then the tier 10 med will be able to do so much better. Even the spotting/scouting roles, which are few and far between, like D6 on Malinovka for example I could have easily done in tier 10 meds. Then any moment where you are basically doing support fire, any medium to long range shooting, any trading, any corner fights, flanking, whatever a tier 10 med will just do better. Many of those situations you just don't bother with this tank because it's so bad at them.

The Maus and 252 perform well in every ones hands, the Maus at the moment 45%ers are getting like 49% win rates in it.

For most players this tank will be a massive struggle for them, even more of a struggle than old lights IMO. Buffing it so it's not quite as useless IMO is more than worth it, even if your top 0.1% of players can dominate with it.

Those players can dominate anyway so don't really get the problem. 

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19 hours ago, tajj7 said:

It wasn't broken on test with it's original stats and that was mainly fighting other tier 10 lights. It would have probably been weak on the live meta even with it's old DPM, view range and alpha damage. 

This tank is basically a tier 8 that goes fast and ultimately that is crap.

On Vbaddict this tanks is currently struggling to out damage the tier 10 arties, the same tier 10 arties that had their damage heavily nerfed so they wouldn't be damage dealers. And that is with most players playing it likely to be very good.

Limited battles and above average players and it's currently managing sub 1.5k DPG and just breaking 50% win rate, when you compare it to tanks like the Kranvagn and TVP on vbaddict in the first few weeks they were probably at 57-58% WR and over 2.5k damage, that is how woefully underpar this tank is for a tier 10. 

Even having a small number of very good players almost exclusively playing it and not being exposed yet to the average masses and it is still one of the worst performing tier 10s. Imagine what it's stats are going to be when other lesser players get it. I'm predicting sub 1.1k damage for a tier 10 tank and I bet it will rival the worst win rates. 

While I'm up for debate on how much buff this needs there is one place you are wrong. T10 lights are not only available to best players like early Skoda or Kranvagn because a ton of pubs already had what are now t9 scouts. There is a difference between having to grind the whole line and having to grind from t9 to t10 so the stats will obviously be lower. In it's current form I agree t10 are bad.

 

As for test server - if it was populated with only lights it was hard to judge. A real test would be 2 teams with mostly heavies and slower mediums vs a pre nerf t100. Now one team has idiot scouts who die. I wonder how much influence could the scouts have later in the game. I'm not saying they would be OP. I just know why wg is careful about balancing them (even if they overnerfed them)

6 hours ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Yeah, but there's a difference.

Look at the Obj 252, or even the Maus. in the hands of a crap player, they're both terrible. In hte hands of a good player, they're pretty much the poster child for OP tanks.

 

 

Lol wut? Obj has fuck you alpha, not bad pen and idiot proof armor. What would be considered a mistake on other pike nose tanks on this it is often a good idea. This is literally the best premium tanks for noobs in the game. It is easy for good players to kill a noob in one but oranges and yellows in the obj will play above their skill level. 

As for the Maus - have you played it? While bad players have problems with realizing when to flex back so slow tanks are a problem but on the other hand Maus is a tank that can drive into 3-4 enemy tanks, block their advance for a very long time and easily deal 3k dmg. My WR in Maus is only slowly rising but when I first got it I played it like an idiot on purpose and even if the enemy roflstomps you, you will deal a ton of dmg and block a lot.

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I just want to see it's top end wins potential closer to the tier X mediums @Canadian_Reaper. All tanks are "OP" in their optimal engagements as you described.

Too realize that level of winning it'd need a small buff. At 8.82 rpm and 2647, an increase back to 320 would be a modest 2822 dpm. Still below 9 medium levels! It's only 720 more damage potential, so letting it carry 42-45 rounds would then be ideal to push instances of running out of ammo from "often" to "occasionally but rarely" like the 907 and Batchat.

@tajj7, as I said I expect a little more damage but that combined figure is pretty strong influence. I find myself in all kinds of situations that either would be inescapable OR unreachable in a tier X medium though. Coming with the caveat that I'm generally shitty at mediums that aren't the Bat.

And I definitely need to post some replays cause I'm not seeing much GOFAST joy here.

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26 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

I just want to see it's top end wins potential closer to the tier X mediums @Canadian_Reaper. All tanks are "OP" in their optimal engagements as you described.

Too realize that level of winning it'd need a small buff. At 8.82 rpm and 2647, an increase back to 320 would be a modest 2822 dpm. Still below 9 medium levels! It's only 720 more damage potential, so letting it carry 42-45 rounds would then be ideal to push instances of running out of ammo from "often" to "occasionally but rarely" like the 907 and Batchat.

@tajj7, as I said I expect a little more damage but that combined figure is pretty strong influence. I find myself in all kinds of situations that either would be inescapable OR unreachable in a tier X medium though. Coming with the caveat that I'm generally shitty at mediums that aren't the Bat.

And I definitely need to post some replays cause I'm not seeing much GOFAST joy here.

My current acc has no russial lights exped :( 

BTW. Have you tried climbing with the french t10? Doable?

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47 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

My current acc has no russial lights exped :( 

BTW. Have you tried climbing with the french t10? Doable?

I'm real bad at climbing. It's something I really need to work on, especially mines and sacred valley. The simpler ones I can do just fine but I'm a pretty poor driver!

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6 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

I'm real bad at climbing. It's something I really need to work on, especially mines and sacred valley. The simpler ones I can do just fine but I'm a pretty poor driver!

Same for me so I assumed tanks with stupid hp/t make it easier to climb. 

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Here are some replays of this tank. 66% wins, some solo, some platooned. 3 Ace games I think (all of mine so far actually). One game close to 10k combined? Its a fun tank!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tsszrx606r4rdyz/T100LT_Crab_GOFAST.zip

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I'm not denying it can be fun, it's a go kart essentially, but it's not effective IMO.

I was watching skill4ltu last night and he basically called them all garbage and I couldn't really argue with him.

Mine for now is going to sit unplayed for a while, I've got a clan mate who has the Rhm. and he reckons it's just as trash, the 13-105 is basically a worse Bat Chat so I'm working on getting the WZ-132-1 to give that a go because it at least has better pen and meaningful alpha, though only at the WZ-132 at the moment. 

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53 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

I'm not denying it can be fun, it's a go kart essentially, but it's not effective IMO.

I was watching skill4ltu last night and he basically called them all garbage and I couldn't really argue with him.

Mine for now is going to sit unplayed for a while, I've got a clan mate who has the Rhm. and he reckons it's just as trash, the 13-105 is basically a worse Bat Chat so I'm working on getting the WZ-132-1 to give that a go because it at least has better pen and meaningful alpha, though only at the WZ-132 at the moment. 

How is 4k combined and 66% not effective? I don't get it!?!?!

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