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SchnitzelTruck

BatChat 12T Appreciation Thread

49 posts in this topic

.... dude. You realize that you have the camera where your gun barrels would almost be touching, right?

In practice it's around 200effective. Have you even played or faught one?? Idk why this is being debated.

Im getting tired of stubborn old man syndrome.

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5 hours ago, hazzgar said:

I have put the camera angle on the gun level of the defender which is a rather low tank and it's over 220. For higher tanks it is 230. 

So if you are at 300m from the defender trier8 accuracy allows you to reliably put hits in the lfp? I get that it's lower at long range (if your tank isn't high) but at long range your inaccurate t8 gun will derp and miss the lfp 

You are not considering one thing, that is that camera on tanks.gg has no zoom. You practically never shoot without zoom, so the distance/sizes of tanks are massively misrepresented.  So my 2nd picture is still fairly close, if I had to take a wild guess I'd say it's less than 100m.

Picture you posted might be one tank length away from Defender, again pretty close. If you look at angles, you'll see you have 3.6 more degrees on his lower plate. That means you have to use 3.6 degrees of gun depression more than in my pic (where you use just a tiny bit) to hit his LFP. So we're talking about "121 can't depress it's gun to shoot Defender's LFP" kind of distance. 

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3 minutes ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

.... dude. You realize that you have the camera where your gun barrels would almost be touching, right?

In practice it's around 200effective. Have you even played or faught one?? Idk why this is being debated.

Im getting tired of stubborn old man syndrome.

I have played it. Sometimes it's butter and sometimes the super long 88 has problems with penning the shit frontally. 

 

2 minutes ago, Marty said:

You are not considering one thing, that is that camera on tanks.gg has no zoom. You practically never shoot without zoom, so the distance/sizes of tanks are massively misrepresented.  So my 2nd picture is still fairly close, if I had to take a wild guess I'd say it's less than 100m.

Picture you posted might be one tank length away from Defender, again pretty close. If you look at angles, you'll see you have 3.6 more degrees on his lower plate. That means you have to use 3.6 degrees of gun depression more than in my pic (where you use just a tiny bit) to hit his LFP. So we're talking about "121 can't depress it's gun to shoot Defender's LFP" kind of distance. 

Thanks for the post. It is probably lower than what I posted and I'm too lazy to actually calculate effective values at 200m. All i know is pubbies can't fight against the defenders. I can but tbh I find it is easier to counter an average player in a liberte or a patriot. Yeah if you are playing against purpls they are better in those 2 but if you are playing against purples the tank is rarely your biggest problem. On the other hand if you have a low dpm, derpy soft t8 med (so most t8 meds) you have to try to kill the other flank or be really sure you can trade 2 vs 1. It's doable if the defender has no support so late game defender is not a problem but early game? Other tanks are with him so it's not easy to trade 2vs1.  I'm not saying defender is OP but that it's broken in terms of how it influences gameflow. Especially for certain tanks. 

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The other problem with using the tank armor model on Tanks.gg is that in the game, it is practically NEVER the case that two tanks are facing each other on the impossibly flat virtual field of the modeler.  Even on streets and relatively flat surfaces in game, there is uneveness that changes the angle of the lfp and thus the effectiveness of its armor relative to the info in the modeler.

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Or, we can just use math and realize that [email protected] is 218mm eff (198mm vs AP, 205mm vs APCR).

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Ok so since this has gone wayyyyy off topic

UZ0NThZ.jpg

apgyCCJ.jpg

GG boys

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1 hour ago, WorldConqueror said:

lol. how many games did the 3mark take you?

78, I was extremely inconsistent with it.

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3 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

78, I was extremely inconsistent with it.

eh, still good. congrats

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Just got this tank. Tier 8 MM is so broken, at least on low server pop. SEA anyway. ~20 games. Only top tier for the first match. Which is one more top tier game than I've had in either of my tier 8 premiums since 9.18 landed. Effectively having old school LT MM is hard. Amazing how quickly one forgets. The thought of grinding out over 600K xp like this after the glorious MM experienced playing the AMX 12t and 13 75... 

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60+ games in. Decent tank. I'd probably really like it if it didn't follow on from the glory of the two previous tanks. Gun handling is noticeably shitter than the 13 75 as is the clip reload. Centrally mounted turrets suck. And while the low base view range is fine against equal and lower tiers, it hurts when up against a pile of tier 9s and 10s. Which, as I've already noted,  it generally is because of broken tier 8 MM. 

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I've just unlocked this tank while doing the On-Track to the 30B. Is it still worth playing or better to skip it straight to AMX 30? I absolutely loved the AMX 13 75 but am not sure about BC 12t, especially not the way the MM treats tier 8 tanks currently. What do you guys recommend?

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MM treats it fine.  It's a nice little tank and worth the investment and a little better than the 1375.  If your pressed for "on track" time skip it and come back as you likely need it for the the 1390 and 25t AP anyway.

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4 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

MM treats it fine.  It's a nice little tank and worth the investment and a little better than the 1375.  If your pressed for "on track" time skip it and come back as you likely need it for the the 1390 and 25t AP anyway.

Would you say it sees tier 10s less often than other tier 8s?

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1 minute ago, DirtyACE7 said:

Would you say it sees tier 10s less often than other tier 8s?

Yes.  It is my observation that MM only screws over T8 Mediums and Heavies due to how MM prioritizes (or orders) the balance of teams.  Arty, TDs and LTs are balanced first by MM; and then Mediums and Heavies are added to fill out the match.  Therefore, Arty, TDs, and LTs more often see the expected 3/5/7 breakdowns at T8; vice T8 Mediums and Heavies that are more often arbitrarily thrown in to fill out the T10 3/5/7 matches.  To a lessor degree this also affects T6 on NA due to the disproportionate number of T8s in the battle queue.  (Of course T8 platoons will still screw you over more often than not.)

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Just now, 8_Hussars said:

Yes.  It is my observation that MM only screws over T8 Mediums and Heavies due to how MM prioritizes (or orders) the balance of teams.  Arty, TDs and LTs are balanced first by MM; and then Mediums and Heavies are added to fill out the match.  Therefore, Arty, TDs, and LTs more often see the expected 3/5/7 breakdowns at T8; vice T8 Mediums and Heavies that are more often arbitrarily thrown in to fill out the T10 3/5/7 matches.  To a lessor degree this also affects T6 on NA due to the disproportionate number of T8s in the battle queue.  (Of course T8 platoons will still screw you over more often than not.)

That's good to know. I think I'll go ahead and play it through then. Still have quite a bit of time until the end of the on-track event.

Thanks @8_Hussars! I

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2 hours ago, DirtyACE7 said:

That's good to know. I think I'll go ahead and play it through then.

 

I like it.  Was short of crews so started a new one at 75% when the new lights dropped.  Ground out the first skill pretty quick (with reserves of course) and if you can already scout a little you can play relatively effectively while being marginally safer and just wreck with the gun.  

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11 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

I like it.  Was short of crews so started a new one at 75% when the new lights dropped.  Ground out the first skill pretty quick (with reserves of course) and if you can already scout a little you can play relatively effectively while being marginally safer and just wreck with the gun.  

I bought it but haven't played any games yet as I can't seem to decide on equipment. I got the vert stab mounted but then can't decide between vents, optics, and gld for the other two spots. Any suggestions?

Also, what's the typical ammo loadout did you run?

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I run the autoloader LT standard of vStab, vents, optics...  It plays like a baby BC, you are either active scouting, clipping in a close range engagement and GTFOing, or shooting from concealment therefore the overall marginal benefits of vents (especially with a newish crew) outweighs the EGLD IMHO.

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16 minutes ago, 8_Hussars said:

I run the autoloader LT standard of vStab, vents, optics...  It plays like a baby BC, you are either active scouting, clipping in a close range engagement and GTFOing, or shooting from concealment therefore the overall marginal benefits of vents (especially with a newish crew) outweighs the EGLD IMHO.

That's kind of what I was leaning towards too. It's the same setup I used on the 13 75 and it worked very very well. However, on the AMX 12t I had to use the GLD because it felt like the gun would aim for ages. Thanks again @8_Hussars!

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So I’m close to finish grinding through the BC 12t and unlocking the AMX 30. The BC 12t has been a bit of a disappointment in all honesty when compared to the 13 75. It loses more than it gains. Worse gun handling, worse clip reload time. Your alpha gain is measly to say the least and you gain a bit more speed. In all honesty, I’d rather play the 13 75 in same matches than the 12t. I will definitely be selling it and definitely keeping the 13 75, that thing is awesome!

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1 hour ago, DirtyACE7 said:

So I’m close to finish grinding through the BC 12t and unlocking the AMX 30. The BC 12t has been a bit of a disappointment in all honesty when compared to the 13 75. It loses more than it gains. Worse gun handling, worse clip reload time. Your alpha gain is measly to say the least and you gain a bit more speed. In all honesty, I’d rather play the 13 75 in same matches than the 12t. I will definitely be selling it and definitely keeping the 13 75, that thing is awesome!

The T7 MM (over T8) definitely makes a difference to the fun factor...

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1 hour ago, 8_Hussars said:

The T7 MM (over T8) definitely makes a difference to the fun factor...

Yeah it seems to be a big difference. The BC feels underpowered for its tier and 13 75 feels overpowered for its tier.

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On 19.07.2017 at 10:14 PM, DirtyACE7 said:

Yeah it seems to be a big difference. The BC feels underpowered for its tier and 13 75 feels overpowered for its tier.

Naah it's not underpowered for the trier even with the broken prems. The trier itself is shit but the tank feels good and has great potential. 

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