lordawesome7

opinions on sirfoch being censored?

222 posts in this topic

All of this over a new premium that has armor (in front)?!  And I don't get all this "dirty money grabbing" bs.  This is a video game, made by a company, who is in business to make money, right?  Nobody makes you buy this thing.  And if you're fighting it, get around it, or go shoot something else.  

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6 minutes ago, Griphos said:

All of this over a new premium that has armor (in front)?!  And I don't get all this "dirty money grabbing" bs.  This is a video game, made by a company, who is in business to make money, right?  Nobody makes you buy this thing.  And if you're fighting it, get around it, or go shoot something else.  

Yes. I also like it when WG want to make CW great again and then release tanks which are instantly meta in CW that you can BUY with REAL MONEY and skip ALL the GRINDS.

 

I also like it when you can BUY a tank that is flat out BETTER than ALL (bar IS-3 because that's a medium/heavy/td/spg all in one) other tanks in the same tier for pubs giving you no incentive to actually grind tanks because fuck that, I'll just buy something better than what i need to earn.

Its a game that rewards the grind. Or was. If they want to make money long term, this wouldn't have happened. It seems their business plan has shifted to short term profits at the expense of game longevity and this outcry is because WE ENJOY THE GAME and don't want it to die. 

 

edit: Seriously though, what the fuck is the point of actually grinding when you just play a tier 9 in tier 8 which you can buy which renders all your other tier 6-8 obsolete since MM will be full of OP tanks which you can't do anything about?

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No one should be surprised. If a company and a third party that the company had a relationship with creates content not just criticizing a product, but openly insults the very company they have a relationship with, of course the company will strike back. To punish the third party and to set an example. They didn't do anything not within the realm of what they could do. 

WarGaming, just like any other business, is there to make money. Not saying I as a consumer particularly agree with everything they do, just like many other companies out there, but their actions are pretty typical.

With that being said, if I was on the other side of things and was someone high up in WG, I probably would have pressed for something to be done. It's not good for business when your own partner openly slams you as a company.

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The problem is that it even got to this point in the first place. WG are still pushing out tanks like this when for over a year now with the E5 HD model (edit: And VKB no frontal weakspot except tiny ass cupola HD model) was just plainly retarded and its even escalated into premiums. 

Seriously, how long does it take for opinions in -> development? Apparently in WG land its a year... AND COUNTING. 

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So, what I'm hearing is that the shitheads at WG are attempting to revive CW by eliminating any need to grind for vehicles worth participating in? And when someone says anything against their new business plan, they try to block off the source of those comments?

Shouldn't be surprising as that's what Gaijin did with the "censorship" part, and now WG is following in the other eastern European company's footsteps. CW is dead, so they're trying to make quick bucks off those who still care for it with these new tanks that replace others in the meta.

Negative reviews will always be there, I wonder what they'll do when the community as a whole starts spreading word instead of just a few outlets like this Youtube guy.

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because we do need another premium heavy tank that can bulldoze its way through the corridor maps and promote the increasingly expensive in-game economy 

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Well, which is it?  They're rapidly destroying the game with tanks that make us flip our tanks and cede the match as soon as we spot them, or they have been doing this for over a year now (which sort of argues against the whole rapid destruction angle)?  

As for T8 CW, if anyone is still interested in playing it, the IS-3 is better than the Defender in some ways, and worse in others.  It's about scratch between them, I think. And when I do play it, I see about even numbers of both. What other T8 premium is clogging up CW?  

And that's just T8, only one of ten tiers in the game (or one of six if you want to start counting at T5, which is still fun to play sometimes).  And not the best tier, either.  T7 and T9 seem better for pubs to me in the current client.  

I think there's a mentality remaining from early days that insists that no premium tank shall be as good as regular tanks (or at least some of them).  I get that is a kind of doctrinal position, and so doesn't really get critiqued much.  But, really, other than invoking the scary mantra "P2W," what's the problem if some of them are pretty good, and you can do as well in them as other good regular tanks.  And if you buy them, and only play them, then what is wrong with that?  Nobody has to, and there are other tanks as good or better than them that you have to grind to (and who likes grinding anyway?!).  

If these new tanks were really such a problem in the game, why aren't we seeing matches with basically nothing but these tanks on both sides?  Many, many people have them.  

This game has been around a lot longer than I expected it to be.  Server population isn't bad still in NA.  If selling some premiums that entice the pubbies to keep playing keeps the queue short and plenty of people to fight, why isn't that a good thing?

I'm seriously wondering.  I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I just don't get the angst.  Really.  

Because, if you ask me, all the really broken tanks are still the ones you have to grind to.  

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4 hours ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

I haven't seen teh original vid, but it is possible it was above and beyond what should be "acceptable" from a community contributor, Or it's entirely possible this is WG over reacting , so much seems to come out of that European office.

In my opinion- it's fair for them to ask that CC's conduct themselves with a certain standard. Whether or not this was "slanderous" I kinda doubt, but it's possible having heard some of Foch's rants before. 

Allow me to tell you something about CC standards. One of Polish CC drinks a little pool of beer almost every time he streams. Several times he fell asleep. Still CC. Another one has been caught on promoting cheaters -  several times. Still CC.

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3 minutes ago, Griphos said:

Well, which is it?  They're rapidly destroying the game with tanks that make us flip our tanks and cede the match as soon as we spot them, or they have been doing this for over a year now (which sort of argues against the whole rapid destruction angle)?  

As for T8 CW, if anyone is still interested in playing it, the IS-3 is better than the Defender in some ways, and worse in others.  It's about scratch between them, I think. And when I do play it, I see about even numbers of both. What other T8 premium is clogging up CW?  

And that's just T8, one of ten tiers in the game (or one of six if you want to start counting at T5, which is still fun to play sometimes).  

I think there's a mentality remaining from early days that insists that no premium tank shall be as good as regular tanks (or at least some of them).  I get that is a kind of doctrinal position, and so doesn't really get critiqued much.  But, really, other than invoking the scary mantra "P2W," what's the problem if some of them are pretty good, and you can do as well in them as other good regular tanks.  And if you buy them, and only play them, then what is wrong with that?  Nobody has to, and there are other tanks as good or better than them that you have to grind to (and who likes grinding anyway?!).  

If these new tanks were really such a problem in the game, why aren't we seeing matches with basically nothing but these tanks on both sides?  Many, many people have them.  

This game has been around a lot longer than I expected it to be.  Server population isn't bad still in NA.  If selling some premiums that entice the pubbies to keep playing keeps the queue short and plenty of people to fight, why isn't that a good thing?

I'm seriously wondering.  I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I just don't get the angst.  Really.  

It's simply bad game design. The point of MMOs is to grind, and if it isn't, a MAJOR part of MMOs is grinding, that is indisputable. Tanks that are imbalanced (relative to their tier) are bad for game design because it kills the incentive to grind. Serious questions are being raised like, "Why should I grind for the T32 when I can go buy a Patriot?" and "What's the point in playing tier 6s and 7s when tier 8 prems are going to wipe my ass across the floor and back". Other issues that come from these premiums is powercreep. When the 252U is on par if not superior to the IS-3 (Easily the best, if not one of the best tanks in tier, it defines ratings of other tanks in tier and below its tier), other tanks like the Tiger 2, T32, KV-4 get left in the dust by this uber tank that simply runs it over. Another issue is veteran/player retention. When a veteran sees these op tier 8s released and the droves of 1k game pubbies get a hold of them, it feels like they're being cheated. Like their time they invested hasn't been valued by the company and that they don't care about what their veterans and other players think.

Also, what the fuck do you mean "What other T8 prem is clogging CWs?", some of the BEST tanks in t8 CWs are premiums. Skorpion G, 252U, T26E5, Strv S1 (to a degree, less seen). The only other notable t8 CW tanks are the IS-3 (obvious reasons) and Pershing (to an extent).

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When a tank is statistically making bad players play better than their average, that is bad game design (Maus, VK100.01P, etc). 

 

When a PREMIUM tank that you pay real money for statistically makes bad players play better than their average...  

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Foch played this one brilliantly tho.

From a publicity point of view, he just couldn't lose.

If WG stays silent, he becomes "the man who stands for the common people"

If WG acts, he becomes "the oppressed hero"

 

Worst case scenario is losing CC status, which doesn't really mean shit as far as youtube views go.

Now lets just see if anyone tries to one-up him.

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9 hours ago, skyf24 said:

Circ also took down his KV-122 video. They thought people wouldn't notice, but they did.

I feel like Foch may have had it coming because the video didn't seem like much of a review, but at the same time it does feel like WG is going down the drain

Care to elaborate ? I missed that part completely. 

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Better question is how did he even get CC or even kept it for shittalking WG all the time on his streams, calling RU developers retards/subhumans multiple times I was surprised he even kept it for as long as he did. I do agree with Foch in every regard really, WG is fucking retarded and is just cash milking until the game will rek itself. I really used to enjoy the game but they fucked it up massively now.

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45 minutes ago, DHP said:

Care to elaborate ? I missed that part completely. 

Circon made (imho accurate) statements about how bad highway map design is. He was graphic but civil with his description (kids and boogers were involved). Got slammed by WG, took the video down.

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Funny thing about takedowns on youtube - it's powerful only for huge companies. I work for a huge movie distributor but for YT to react to our claims it takes ages. You need a 3rd party who is "friends" with YT directors and staff. 

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Many (most?) of you have been playing this game far, far longer than I have...I wasn't even around for the TD/sniping meta, for example.  But I kind of suspect that the negative opinions trend higher among the better/more veteran players, less so among the more casual players, and I would wager those kinds of players are increasingly WG's target audience - less retention of established players, more growth among sometime players or new players.  I can get that many of the changes feel like a middle finger to the longtime vets and really good players - the changes are essentially of the field-levelling sort.

So it makes me feel kinda dirty to say this, but...I still really, really enjoy the game.  I don't dispute the criticisms levelled at WG (although re: Foch, I haven't watched the vid in question, and there are other youtubers whose content I genuinely prefer, but that's in part because I like to watch them with my son, so I lean more towards someone like Jingles, flames > /dev/null).  But I would bet $$$ that the majority of the players (I have ZERO data to substantiate this, mind you) don't really get the fuss - they may say, "yeah, WG sucks" in game chat, or in the comments while watching someone's Twitch stream, but I doubt they feel it as strongly as most of you, nor could they really cite substantive reasons other than, "los veteranos think WG suck!"

All purely my $0.02, YMMV.

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8 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

IT'S HIS QUOTE. BY HIM. WITH HIS FLAIR. I'm fairly certain he mentions it on his YouTube channel on his latest video, but I'm not sure. Also, try not to be so disrespectful, I'm trying to provide evidence and you just retorted back with a short quip that was worded rudely.

That is an allegation, not evidence: There's no screenshot of a chat log or email message; there's nothing but his word that's what happened. Further, Ph3lan of WGEU stated "I have indeed removed the SirFoch from the community contributor program and also asked him to remove his content about the Chrysler K. from his channel." (source: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/page__p__14293729#entry14293729 ), which seemingly would contradict threatening a DMCA takedown.

 

I'm not inclined to believe either one on their word, and I think it is a shame so many people are, rather than questioning the conflicting statements and the lack of evidence either side presents. Even more so given WG does not appear to have a history of threating (or using) DMCA takedowns as the only other thing I can find is over a M60 leak ( https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2015/08/29/so-got-an-copyright-infringement-from-wg/ ).

I do understand the inclination to side with SirFoch by default, but skepticism is good thing to have on the internet.

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It seems odd then that his 'retraction' content focuses so much on the copyright aspect. I would have thought that would put his own credibility far more at risk if indeed he was making it up, to then double down effectively on the claim. Fair to question of course. And naturally even WG wouldn't be stupid enough to deny they did it... would they?

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Ah allegation... was stuck on hearsay. There is also this comment trail of Foch being quite evasive on the matter; https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/6bvus2/sirfoch_chrysler_k_gf_is_a_joke_and_so_is_wg/dhqqd3g/?context=10000

I'm sure WG did more than just ask, but not as much as Foch tries to claim. We'll probably never know, and Foch will benefit a lot from it like carbon said earlier.

 

Just found this new post of Ph3lan: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/page__st__380__pid__14297446#entry14297446

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6 minutes ago, Ezz said:

It seems odd then that his 'retraction' content focuses so much on the copyright aspect. I would have thought that would put his own credibility far more at risk if indeed he was making it up, to then double down effectively on the claim. Fair to question of course. And naturally even WG wouldn't be stupid enough to deny they did it... would they?

Purely speculation: I would argue the DMCA aspect is why this story has caught on so much; given the content of the original video, I doubt very many people would fault WG for revoking his CC status or asking him to take the video down of his own accord. But DMCA abuse is a subject that inflames emotions and makes people take note (for good reason, to be fair). If his goal was to get his message (about OP premiums, the requirement to shoot premium rounds to deal with heavy armor, etc...) to as many people as possible, to get them talking about those issues (presumably to get WG to take notice), then DMCA would have been an effective way to do that. I mean, just look at the WoT reddit.

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6 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

Allow me to tell you something about CC standards. One of Polish CC drinks a little pool of beer almost every time he streams. Several times he fell asleep. Still CC. Another one has been caught on promoting cheaters -  several times. Still CC.

I'd say this talks to my biggest problem with the issue.  WG is simply all over the place when it comes to PR and how they handle these kinds of things.  It's essentially random.  Sometimes they bring in the hammer, sometimes it seems like they are asleep at the wheel or giving a sideways smirk and a knowing smile.  For nearly any transgression, you can't know how they will react.  Policy appears to be made up at the moment and then not applied evenly.

I understand their need to monitor and add/remove CCs, absolutely in their purview and interest.  I understand their need/reasons to grow the game and push it in the direction they feel best.  It's not that the situation happened or that is was reacted to.  It's how they continually lash out in inexplicable directions for one situation and then apply a completely different standard to another similar one.  They simply lurch from small crisis to small crisis.  I said earlier they were circling the drain which was a bit of dramatic exaggeration.  Obviously this massive and very popular game is going to go on for a while, but if you pay attention to how they interact with players and their own game/meta it's astounding they have a game to develop.

End of the day they do what makes money, I just wish they realized the goodwill they are eroding by operating the way they do.  Though I am willing to admit I'm possibly the minority and the great unwashed just want another OP tank to buy and flavor the month is what they clamor for.

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11 hours ago, skyf24 said:

Circ also took down his KV-122 video. They thought people wouldn't notice, but they did.

I feel like Foch may have had it coming because the video didn't seem like much of a review, but at the same time it does feel like WG is going down the drain

Circon basically said Highway was a crap map and that WG got map design ideas from Victor's son who draws on a napkin with crayons, then sneezes on it and that is how Highway was born.  It was pretty funny, but WG always react when you say anything about their employees. I called Serb a moron once on the official forums, because of his comments about arty (which subsequent comments by WG in the arty rebalance pretty much confirmed he was wrong) and got a 2 week forum ban for it.

So apparently Circon was talked to by Phelan and asked to take down the video, which he did and he has kept his CC status.

Whereas with Foch they just removed his CC status, asked him to take down the video and apparently threatened him with copy right strikes on all his content, which they are not allowed to do anyway.  

Foch didn't present his comments very well, but there was nothing objectively untrue in what he said and Phelan has accused him of slander against WG, which is complete 100% bollocks, which to me adds weight to Foch's claim they threatened him with copyright strikes against all his videos.  WG were clearly pissed he was so critical and his 'review' didn't really focus on the tank but highlighted their very clear business policies. 

The Chrysler K, along with other previous changes to heavy tanks, is nothing but pure greed from WG at the sake of game balance. Foch was correct and it's something he and many other have highlighted before, hell even QB has highlighted it. The Chrysler K must have been the straw that broke camel's back for Foch, especially after 9.18 was generally well received even by heavy WG criticisers like him and Circon. He reacted poorly and was clearly angry, you could see it in the video, he clearly cares about the game and that video was an ill-thought out emotional response. 

The fact that Phelan pretty much default removed his CC status straight away, threatened him with copy right strikes and forced him to remove the vid when seems quite a huge reaction when Foch's rant was not directed at anyone in particular, yet Circon directly referenced Kisily and his son, but he only gets a chat. In terms of offending people Circon's was worse, but he gets the lighter treatment, that to me highlights that WG were trying to censor him and his message, and this whole 'offensive' claim is just a smokescreen. 

As usual with WG they are on step forwards and then two steps back, they ruined all the excellent rebalances in 9.17/1 to underpowered tanks with the retarded changes to the Maus and Type 5. They are now ruining all ther good change in 9.18 by releasing more of these broken super heavies and especially broken super heavy premiums that are pure greed.

Foch, however angrily and offensively he did it, highlighted this and WG clearly didn't like it, but it's massively backlashed for them with the community. 

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http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/page__st__380__pid__14297446#entry14297446

 

Quote

"Q: Did you tell him that if he doesn’t take it down you are going to go through YouTube to take it down?

A: At first we asked SirFoch to take down the video, due to the above mentioned reasons. He refused to do so. At this point we told him that we will go through YouTube if necessary to remove the video."

 

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3 minutes ago, DHP said:

Wow. How did they not foresee the PR disaster that was going to come of that.

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" we heard his message about the Chrysler and we will pass it on to our developers together with all the feedback we gathered from you guys on the forums and Social media channels "

AND THEN DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT AND SAY "FUCK YOU, PLAYERS, ENJOY THE CREEP"!

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