lordawesome7

opinions on sirfoch being censored?

222 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Griphos said:

-butthurt-

Yo, dude, calm your tits. For the sake of keeping this (reasonably) civilized, you can take this to PM's with Fox if you continue to be this assmad.

The topic may be pretty insignificant compared to what you're trying to argue, but the topic is the topic. Let's keep it on the rails.

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6 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

Russians that protect homosexual's rights?!!!

Ahahahhahahhahahhahhahahhhah

Never heard of that before. Putin will be so happy.

This, so much - lol.  Yes I know that Belarus is not really Russia - but WG (AKA Cyka Bylat Inc.) going full Lena Dunham against gay slurs, lel.

 

Oh yeah, and FWIW guess who picked up 2 months worth of new YouTube subscribers in the last 4 days?  Yep, I think Foch will be just fine.  Foch probably will end up making more off of WG as a renegade than he would have as CC.

In reality, WG could probably not get YT to issue a copyright strike even if they seriously tried.  They put their seal of approval on everything he's done to date, they don't get to revise history just because of butturt - that would end up being a shitstorm for YT and they are not going to walk that path for some piss ant WG pettiness.  For Sony, maybe, for Viktor - not likely.

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1 hour ago, Archaic_One said:

This, so much - lol.  Yes I know that Belarus is not really Russia - but WG (AKA Cyka Bylat Inc.) going full Lena Dunham against gay slurs, lel.

 

Oh yeah, and FWIW guess who picked up 2 months worth of new YouTube subscribers in the last 4 days?  Yep, I think Foch will be just fine.  Foch probably will end up making more off of WG as a renegade than he would have as CC.

In reality, WG could probably not get YT to issue a copyright strike even if they seriously tried.  They put their seal of approval on everything he's done to date, they don't get to revise history just because of butturt - that would end up being a shitstorm for YT and they are not going to walk that path for some piss ant WG pettiness.  For Sony, maybe, for Viktor - not likely.

From what I understand of YT copyright strikes, it would be very easy for WG to go after him on youtube. SEGA has done it before, and youtube tends to lean towards developers on if a strike should go through. Now, this doesn't mean WG would be clear on the PR perspective (and SEGA certainly wasn't), but they could still do it.

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3 hours ago, Griphos said:

Actually, in proper German, Untermenschen.  You think you're being cute?  Much of my extended family died because of that exact word and the "casual racism" it employs.

Fox advises we focus on the "actual issue."  What is the actual issue?  A new premium tank with good frontal armor?  Sir Foch being treated unfairly by WG?  WG being a business and trying to make money?  You guys getting your panties in a twist because there's a new premium you can't afford to buy or don't want in a game, or someone was mean to your favorite streamer?

Sorry, those aren't real issues.  Fuck the Chrysler K, and fuck Sir Foch.  And, most particularly, fuck "casual racists."

"Hard" enough for you, Fox?

I'm sorry if you guys feel I've "derailed" this oh so important topic to call attention to something actually worth addressing. The ironic thing is that this thread would have stayed on topic (to the extent there actually was one) if some of you guys hadn't spent so much of it defending the "casual racism" and telling the rest of us to get over it in terms that perpetuated it or made it worse  

 

That would be a group, mensch = person, menschen = group of people

Not my fault english has so many usefull words, yet at the same time lacks many usefull words :P

In regards to the OT part:

This is a forum about world of tanks, Sir foch streams world of tanks, talking about an OP / badly balanced premium tank, which will influence our world of tanks games. Meanwhile a world of tanks forumtard admin goes full retard on said world of tanks streamer, leading to a small ``shit``storm.

Did i mention this was a forum about world of tanks and that we discus world of tanks topic(s?)

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55 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

From what I understand of YT copyright strikes, it would be very easy for WG to go after him on youtube. SEGA has done it before, and youtube tends to lean towards developers on if a strike should go through. Now, this doesn't mean WG would be clear on the PR perspective (and SEGA certainly wasn't), but they could still do it.

If they really wanted to have fun with him, they could also claim the ad revenue coming off of his videos.

If I worked at WG, I'd have someone working on a tier 8 Foch tank destroyer. Just imagine the camo pattern that would forever be attached to his name:

stock-photo-paris-france-july-apartments

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On 5/18/2017 at 9:29 PM, Archaic_One said:

I think perhaps people need a lesson on what censorship means.  If the state restricts what you as a consenting adult can communicate with other consenting adults - that is censorship.  If an entity that you enter into a business agreement with restricts what you, as their business partner, can say regarding matters of their business - that is called work.

WG did not censor Foch, they terminated a business relationship - which either party can do at any time with or without cause.

Now, we as customers also get a voice in the matter because we also enter into a voluntary business relationship with WG which either of us is also free to terminate at any time.

I'm weighing in to disagree with my friend Archaic's archaic philosophy of censorship. In the 18th century, typical Americans didn't work for huge corporations. They were craftsman and small farmers, who were either their own boss or who aspired to be the boss in the foreseeable future. And they didn't get their entertainment and  information from media empires. In that setting, it made sense to focus almost solely on government threat of censorship.

Things have changed. Now the capitalists whom we work for and who provide our information and entertainment have the power to shut us down, in a way that didn't exist in the 18th century. Concepts of free speech and censorship must evolve accordingly. I'm not okay with being a wage slave.

(When faced with a rebellion of his employees, my favorite Marxist, Groucho, said: "Wages? You want to be wage slaves? Answer me that! Of course not. What is it that makes wage slaves? Wages! I want you to be free. Strike off your chains! Strike up the band! Strike three you're out! Remember, there's nothing like Liberty, except Colliers and The Saturday Evening Post. Be free, now and forever. One and individual. One for all and all for me, and tea for two and six for a quarter.")

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6 minutes ago, xtc4 said:

I'm weighing in to disagree with my friend Archaic's archaic philosophy of censorship. In the 18th century, typical Americans didn't work for huge corporations. They were craftsman and small farmers, who were either their own boss or who aspired to be the boss in the foreseeable future. And they didn't get their entertainment and  information from media empires. In that setting, it made sense to focus almost solely on government threat of censorship.

Things have changed. Now the capitalists whom we work for and who provide our information and entertainment have the power to shut us down, in a way that didn't exist in the 18th century. Concepts of free speech and censorship must evolve accordingly. I'm not okay with being a wage slave.

Lots of people post videos far more critical of WG policy every day on a variety of platforms across social media.  In fact, Foch is free to continue to post scathing searing videos condemning every facet of WG products and policies on Youtube or any other platform - WG just does not have to pay him for it.  As far as the threat to levy a DMCA Strike against him never materialized because it was all bark and no bite.  They could delete his WG account and ban him from the community, but they have very little sway over what he says beyond that.  

Now, you're a lawyer and I'm a geologist - so we probably have a very different take on this, but WG has just as much right to control the message emanating from their CCs as their CCs have to go rogue and bite the hand that feeds them.  Ph3lans actions were douchey and in reality he probably lacks the authority to even carry out his threats - that would be the decision of the WG EU legal team to actually approach Youtube and convince them to take down content that had previously been endorsed by WG.  I understand libel laws in the EU are pretty draconian so maybe he was in more jeopardy than he would be here - I don't know.

The thing is, those 18th century craftsman did not have snapchat, and instagram, and tumblr, and facebook, and dozens of other outlets for their voices.  Its very hard to silence somebody that can log in to multiple different venues under a dozen different user names all with zero legal ramifications.  Hell, the real threat to speech today is not censorship - its noise from competing sources.  Foch has far more outlets for his Voice than Thomas Paine had so I have a hard time feeling like Foch got censored in a way that makes WG culpable for anything more than douchebaggery.

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Also: WHO. THE. FUCK. Was that mongoloid "0,1% esl player" who mailed Jim. Just... :facepalm:

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Didn't Ph3lan already made an account here?

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Jesus, fuck Wargaming.

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I thought it was the biggest shitstorm since Rubicon. But I got to admit I think we have passed this point and this might me just be the biggest shitstorm since the game came out.

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Communist era PR department at its finest.  I guess WGNA never got the email fax telegram letter from WGEU that WG would never use CR Strikes as a weapon against contributors.  Literally I come on here and say hey guys, this is probably not really censorship - WGEU says "whoa, we really didn't mean Copyright Strikes - sorry" - then WGNA comes along in a matter thats not even their business and says "yeah, we will".

FFS WG, morons.

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16 hours ago, orzel286 said:

Also: WHO. THE. FUCK. Was that mongoloid "0,1% esl player" who mailed Jim. Just... :facepalm:

Don't be surprised if it's just a mongoloid minus being a 0.1% player.

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12 hours ago, DHP said:

I thought it was the biggest shitstorm since Rubicon. But I got to admit I think we have passed this point and this might me just be the biggest shitstorm since the game came out.

Yes indeed!.  It's even bigger than the whole mod ban incident from the live streams a few years ago.

Remember that they rescinded the bans due to all the outrage from that, and have since issued an official regarding the SirFoch situation (and now Jingles).  They had no choice this time either, because they were wrong for getting in their feelings about some criticism.  It would have ruined them by disenfranchising most of the player base between both of them had they not apologized. 

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I can't find a concise rundown of what happened. Was it the scathing review that got Foch censored or the "homophobic" comments?

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1 minute ago, clownshoes2 said:

I can't find a concise rundown of what happened. Was it the scathing review that got Foch censored or the "homophobic" comments?

There were no homophobic comments whatsoever. 

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1 hour ago, clownshoes2 said:

I can't find a concise rundown of what happened. Was it the scathing review that got Foch censored or the "homophobic" comments?

Foch makes unprofessional review of chrysler that is more "fuck WG" then anything else. Ph3lan asks Foch to take it down, doesnt do it, gets threatened with copyright strike, now Foch has no choice and takes it down. That information gets public, and head of WG EU community apologizes for it and states copyright strikes are not something WG EU does. All seems fine besides some youtube shitters picking up on the story.

Now WG NA makes a statement to please the SJWs of kotaku by commenting (on an issue that is none of their business) saying they would still take actions against hate speech and homophobic content. Which ofc was not true. Jingles resigns as CC (despite reassurance of WG EU that they wont do copy right strikes, because WG NA fucked up)... Global statement that WG will never censor criticism (as long as it is a professional vid) by abusing copyright strikes, and more information about P2W state of the game (and what not) coming during the grand finals upcoming weekend.

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14 hours ago, Epic said:

Foch makes unprofessional review of chrysler that is more "fuck WG" then anything else. Ph3lan asks Foch to take it down, doesnt do it, gets threatened with copyright strike, now Foch has no choice and takes it down. That information gets public, and head of WG EU community apologizes for it and states copyright strikes are not something WG EU does. All seems fine besides some youtube shitters picking up on the story.

Now WG NA makes a statement to please the SJWs of kotaku by commenting (on an issue that is none of their business) saying they would still take actions against hate speech and homophobic content. Which ofc was not true. Jingles resigns as CC (despite reassurance of WG EU that they wont do copy right strikes, because WG NA fucked up)... Global statement that WG will never censor criticism (as long as it is a professional vid) by abusing copyright strikes, and more information about P2W state of the game (and what not) coming during the grand finals upcoming weekend.

Thanks so much epic...then why do I keep reading things that Foch was making homophobic statements. Smear campaign?

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3 hours ago, clownshoes2 said:

Thanks so much epic...then why do I keep reading things that Foch was making homophobic statements. Smear campaign?

Rather an typical for the internet problem with reading comprehension. In the very unfortunate (as Epic explained) statement from WG NA to Kotaku, they used "SirFoch" and "hate speech/homofobic statements" in the same message, with no connection one to another. Internet managed to put it together nevertheless. We could argue that this might have been intentional strategy by WG, to glue that kind of shit to him, but I personally don't get that kind of impression after reading their statement. 

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They were just using the homophobic comment thing as an excuse to hammer him even though it was unfounded.

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