Luna

Ranked Battles Discussion

309 posts in this topic

We will see how it goes on the live server. I think I will play E50M mostly. It can be boring, but I hope people will realize at higher ranks, that it is so much easier to rank up if they play to win, instead of camping. Sniping also doesn't give much xp. For me this game mode improves 3 aspect of randoms:

  1. Fewer arty, because fuck arty.
  2. No platoons.
  3. Fewer high alpha TDs

If the game play won't be cancerous, I don't see why would I play randoms in my tier 10s, other than making the life of the tier 8s miserable.

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I usually only play tier 10 as a formality, but I'll approach ranked with cautious optimism just to see how it goes. I'm not looking forward to bleeding credits just to gain bonds, but if I can gain some super-equipment for E25 trolling that could be a fun meme. Nothing personal, just pursuing cheap thrills where I can find them. But in seriousness the meta thing to do will be to buff tier 9s.

As for the ranked mode itself, maybe this is stating the obvious but I fail to see how its going to be any more individualistic or skill-based than the randoms. Seems way too team-dependent considering that 12 from the winning side and only 3 from the losing side advance. Why even rank the teams separately? I'd gather all 30 players into one group, sort them by base EXP (which is not to be given a victory/loss modifier) and just advance the top 10 and penalize the bottom 10.

And as for the super equipment and directives as rewards, not the brightest idea but it could be worse. My question is why does it take sooooo long to actually accumulate your bonds? Is that just a gimmick to get the ranked mode running? If so, lame. They could have had such an easy time motivating participation by simply throwing enough credits at us so that spamming tier 10 games with tons of food and code 22 wouldn't be such an economic burden.

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17 hours ago, Vettish said:

I have not played ranked in ships but from what I understand all it takes to rank up in ships in persistence. If you have the battles eventually you will get there. Maybe someone with experience with ranked ships can chime in here. 

It's possible to rank out with a terrible WR by being persistent. The biggest issue with ships is that if you don't rank out in the right wave you're stuck carrying six utter shitters. This is how a typical ships ranked game goes btw:

1. Someone says to go to a cap.

2. Six of the seven go there. One cruiser has a brain fart and dies instantly on the cap no one else went to.

3. OMG NOOBZ Y NO SUPPORT *Racism*

4. DD uses smoke for himself and screws the other cruiser who gets deleted.

5. DD eats torps in smoke.

6. Face roll commences

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1 hour ago, Stige said:

Isn't the answer so obvious here? 113 fyr laif.

I am 130k xp and 2million credits away. FeelsBadMan

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Two things kill this mode for me (and I really like the mode in Warships, but only up to rank 10 or so, the rest is way too grindy for such a casual player):

  • 15 vs 15 - really? Why? 10 vs 10 would have offered a different and probably interesting gameplay apart from randoms. It also wouldn't make your influence higher which ment that your winrate would reflect your skills better.
  • 12 + 3 rule... So winning is actually secondary, placing among the first three is MUCH more important. And this means damage whoring rather than playing for the win. I expect this mode to dissolve into an insane campfest at the better ranks.

However NOT participating in this mode means basically quitting the game outright because over time you will be back running "stock" tanks in comparison to those who can fully kit out a tank with the new prem shit.

So, yeh, time to uninstall and turn to ships full time till another game for old people comes along, I guess.

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Well, right when the summer exams session starts. Fuck this game really..

Anyway, I'll spam autoloaders and joat tanks like the e5/113, 62a..

I'll throw in some superheavies (maus, pz7, E100) but yeah, batchat/50b/t57 will be my main picks..

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2 hours ago, Jaegaer said:

Two things kill this mode for me (and I really like the mode in Warships, but only up to rank 10 or so, the rest is way too grindy for such a casual player):

  • 15 vs 15 - really? Why? 10 vs 10 would have offered a different and probably interesting gameplay apart from randoms. It also wouldn't make your influence higher which ment that your winrate would reflect your skills better.
  • 12 + 3 rule... So winning is actually secondary, placing among the first three is MUCH more important. And this means damage whoring rather than playing for the win. I expect this mode to dissolve into an insane campfest at the better ranks.

However NOT participating in this mode means basically quitting the game outright because over time you will be back running "stock" tanks in comparison to those who can fully kit out a tank with the new prem shit.

So, yeh, time to uninstall and turn to ships full time till another game for old people comes along, I guess.

Concur, 15vs15 is too much. Invidual perfomance effect gets too small I thing.

12+3 seems fine as starting point. Not giving anything to loser team is too harsh if/when there is some peoples in loser team who do really well but get dragged down by rest of team. WOWS had couple seasons ago system where losers got nothing, but now in WOWS best loser gets chevron and I thing peoples like current system better though it sometimes it makes dd's sit in smoke and farm useless damage to be best loser. Remember that in WoT just passive spotting can give good experience  (much more than WOWS) so being team players and spotting for assist damage can be profitable.

What WOWS did not have is that worst players in winner team do not get chevron either. Intresting change and probably helps bit against camper damage padders who sit behind others not  even trying to win but just farming damage. Now those farmers face risk where if their team overruns opponents, they get left behind and end up in lowest 3 experience in team.

Still this is what I worry most, camping and farming safely behind others can even with these rules be still too profitable compared to actively trying to win and taking risks.

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8 minutes ago, sahtila said:

Not giving anything to loser team is too harsh

It may seem so, but imho it's ultimately bad for the mode itself because this mode should be all about winning and now it's all about damage whoring.

Think about it, assuming 10 games played:

Unicorn 1 plays for the win, he has 60% solo winrate but because he tries to lead pushes he only plcaces top three 1/4th of all his loosing games. This player gains 3 chevrons net.

Unicorn 2 plays for the damage and only for the damage. He only has 40% winrate bc chai sniping is real. However he places top three in every lost match. He gains 4 chevrons net.

Now this doesn't seem too much of a difference, but, trust me, it really is.

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Bat wouldn't be too bad to play either imo. Carry enough HEAT and you should be fine. 

Most pubbies will probably bring brain-dead meta tanks like Mice. Probably see a few IS7's. Most will be in RU meds as durrrrrrrrr OP OP OP. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this splits the player base on NA in regards to the top tier of players. Unlike EU/RU there are very little "top" players around still playing actively so pubs may be a bit of a faceroll at primetime when everyone is playing ranked. 

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http://tanks.gg/tank/obj-140/stats?c=5.3.10&cc=4.2.0&ce=5.21.30&e=47.45.46

That's the relevant comparison between an experienced player with three pieces of improved equipment and food (because, let's be honest, if you have that equipment, you're probably also in a positiion to run food any time you want) on an Obj. 140 vs. a new player who just got one and runs the standard equipment and small consumables.  Even if you don't swap IOptics for IVents, you have around a 10% advantage in DPM, nearly a 10% advantage in dispersion, and almost 30m better view range base.  Alternatively, you can swap IOptics for IVents, which gets you an almost 15% DPM advantage, a 10% dispersion advantage, and only 10m less of base view range in a tank where you likely have crew skills to push the view range easily back over the view range cap anyways.

Like I said before - is this totally game-breaking?  No, not technically.  However, 10-15% in the most relevant combat statistics is a very significant advantage, and it can be combined with bonds to make it even greater.  This is utter cancer for long-term game health and convincing new players to play.

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6 hours ago, Jaegaer said:

It may seem so, but imho it's ultimately bad for the mode itself because this mode should be all about winning and now it's all about damage whoring.

Think about it, assuming 10 games played:

Unicorn 1 plays for the win, he has 60% solo winrate but because he tries to lead pushes he only plcaces top three 1/4th of all his loosing games. This player gains 3 chevrons net.

Unicorn 2 plays for the damage and only for the damage. He only has 40% winrate bc chai sniping is real. However he places top three in every lost match. He gains 4 chevrons net.

Now this doesn't seem too much of a difference, but, trust me, it really is.

You don't get rewarded for damage. You get rewarded for XP. Something which you don't get tons of when chai sniping, right?

Also, playing for damage and playing for the win aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

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On 5/30/2017 at 9:21 PM, Luna said:

Why is Luna best princess?

Loads of reasons, too many to write tbh.

Not really interested in any of the wot related stuff tbh :doge:

But, srsly nao: It gives a little bit too much advantage to people who can spam a lot of battles in the rankeds, and it will also make some tanks a little bit too good imho. Correct me if I'm wrong (not active anymore), but the current meta for competitive stuff right now is 907 + a couple of other stuff in limited numbers and from what I gather, the 907 will benefit a whole fucking lot from these changes to a point, where with the right equipment fit it might even be the only tank used for certain maps since nothing else will be needed - and that's fucking bad.

//EDIT: Aside from the tardquipment, the game mode seems a pretty good thing - a way to epeen in-game is always nice and provides a lot of new challenge imho. I'd even consider returning to WoT for it if the balance wasn't cancer and the retarded rewards.

1 hour ago, Sapros said:

Also, playing for damage and playing for the win aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

Depends on a situation a lot to be honest. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not.

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Just realised ranked is only available between 8pm and midnight :gachi::gachi::gachi:

 

Rip ALL expatriate !!!!:trump:

 

EDIT: Checked at 10h10 and ranked were locked until 8pm. Now i got a message telling me it's open since 9h59... Hum.. "No it wasn't.." Ranked is starting well 

 

Edit2: Nop back to 8pm.. :/ 

 

QX6UYPD.jpg

 

 

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Not enjoying it. Reasons below

  • Surprisingly many damage farmers who seem to play purely for the top3 regardless of win or lose. Perhaps it is a passing phase but seeing 3x type5 camping base on lakeville standard is not fun. 7000-9000 wg rating players
  • Autoloaders > Russian meds > Superheavies > other. Batchat, 140, 907, type5. Quite boring
  • Games are still often very onesided. Cant explain that, but it creates no fun experience

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21 minutes ago, Vesirott said:

Not enjoying it. Reasons below

  • Surprisingly many damage farmers who seem to play purely for the top3 regardless of win or lose. Perhaps it is a passing phase but seeing 3x type5 camping base on lakeville standard is not fun. 7000-9000 wg rating players
  • Autoloaders > Russian meds > Superheavies > other. Batchat, 140, 907, type5. Quite boring
  • Games are still often very onesided. Cant explain that, but it creates no fun experience

Why would you think games wouldn't end up one sided? Did someone repeal Lanchesters Square Law? 

Good observations though. It would never have been any other way, due to the way it's scored though. Thanks WG...

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25 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

Why would you think games wouldn't end up one sided? Did someone repeal Lanchesters Square Law? 

Because rank 3 and higher are players who are able to use the map and react to snowballs? Then again, engagements are so quick that even a batchat cant get to the falling flank fast enough so you do have a point. I just didnt expect to see so many (opinion subjective ofc).

E: Forgot to mention that blue+ players usually know how maps work and are not in the wrong place to start with

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59 minutes ago, Vesirott said:

Surprisingly many damage farmers

As expected. Will probably get worse in the higher ranks when people are more evenly matched and the best way to make sure aoiu dont at least looses a chevron is to farm as much damage as possible.

Thats the downside of "rewarding" people for a loss.

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Well. Im done with it, perhaps Ill look into it another season. Tbh the most irritating aspect are fcking obj 907 "stronk kemp, spam heat" damage farmers. As luck would have it, I have one or two in my team every round. Also, quite many SPGs as you go up, 1-2 every game I had. Lost my way to rank 4 and I think this is going to be it. They really have to rethink the losing team reward thingy.

E: Also, thanks for naming Lanchesters Square Law. I had no idea it existed, yet it explains exactly the phenomena I have tried to put into words.

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48 minutes ago, Vesirott said:

Because rank 3 and higher are players who are able to use the map and react to snowballs? Then again, engagements are so quick that even a batchat cant get to the falling flank fast enough so you do have a point. I just didnt expect to see so many (opinion subjective ofc).

E: Forgot to mention that blue+ players usually know how maps work and are not in the wrong place to start with

Fair. If you've followed clan league you'd see that most games end like that. The effect is less pronounced in league because smaller total numbers and engagements. There's just no overcoming the square advantage!

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Enjoyed it quite a bit, to be honest. At higher ranks got teams full of people from fame/csa/seal/ideal and such. Fighting with and against them was pretty damn awesome. 

I guess it won't last since nearly anyone can fail his/her way to rank 5. But until that happers, screw randoms, seriously.

Honestly, I've had a guy taking shots for me allowing my track to get back up. What the actual fuck?

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So anyone have a feel for how much time you need to invest in this to get reasonable rewards out of it? Ie is effort vs reward linear? Requiring a min of xx hours / week?

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Ill settle for some teams full of decent players. If it works as intended, the shitters wont be able to get into the multi-star games. 

I got wrecked so often it wasnt true but I thought it was the most enjoyable session I've had in a while.

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