Sapros

Vents vs Optics: Improved Equipment Edition

34 posts in this topic

Keep in mind that the difference of super-vents' 7.5% crew skill to regular vents' 5.0% is still predicated on not using that same equipment slot for something else, and that crew skill doesn't have an exactly linear relationship with actual performance increases. The usual rule-of-thumb "just divide by two" stops being accurate once you start stacking enough crew boosts. For instance, suppose you have a T-62a and its 400m base view range. If you're stacking vents, BIA, and food that's a 20% crew skill increase and we'd expect that to equal a 10% improvement to view range, therefore ending up with 440m. But the actual result is 336.3m, showing the discrepancy. (that estimate was made using both tanks.gg and wotinfo's vision calculators, haven't checked in-game yet but usually those sites are on the ball)

But the usual rules still apply, if you can hit 445m view range without optics, then why the hell would you use optics? Even for tanks that depend a lot on vision, there's only like 3 maps that really force you to play vision games, in any of the other maps just not being blind is good enough. Corridor meta strong, da tovarish?

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I don't understand why 445m would be the magical limit. With 445 VR you only spot tanks with zero camo at max range. How many tanks in the game have zero camo? Exactly...which means you spot nothing at max range with 445 VR. How much more you need depends on what you want to spot, but you do need more to be able to utilize max spotting distance.

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5 hours ago, HS5 said:

I don't understand why 445m would be the magical limit. With 445 VR you only spot tanks with zero camo at max range. How many tanks in the game have zero camo? Exactly...which means you spot nothing at max range with 445 VR. How much more you need depends on what you want to spot, but you do need more to be able to utilize max spotting distance.

This. For non lights the real sweet spot is closer to 490 since that allows you to spot most tanks at full vr. Hell my amx 13 105 is somewhere close to that and I still feel like sometimes I'm missing on spots because I need more.

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6 hours ago, Mikosah said:

But the usual rules still apply, if you can hit 445m view range without optics, then why the hell would you use optics? Even for tanks that depend a lot on vision, there's only like 3 maps that really force you to play vision games, in any of the other maps just not being blind is good enough. Corridor meta strong, da tovarish?

Because you need burn down that camo on STRV's and ghost BC25t's :D

Also i find 3MOE easier with OPTICS than with VENTS for example. I never utilize that gain in DPM so, VR is nice addition. 

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On 10/12/2017 at 0:07 AM, HS5 said:

I don't understand why 445m would be the magical limit. With 445 VR you only spot tanks with zero camo at max range. How many tanks in the game have zero camo? Exactly...which means you spot nothing at max range with 445 VR. How much more you need depends on what you want to spot, but you do need more to be able to utilize max spotting distance.

Think of it in terms of how much resources you're willing to allocate into view range versus some other aspect. Make no mistake, it would be very nice to have extra view range so that you can cancel out more enemy camo, but is it worth an equipment slot if you're already getting acceptable view range without? If the map meta were more vision-friendly, I'd say yes. But since that's not the case the question is much harder to answer. Moreover, consider that if everyone else in the high tiers is expected to have 440+ effective view range, any member of your team that's further forward than you are is potentially a viable scout for you. Also that if you have credits to spare, food can make a decent substitute for optics and helps in other performance aspects as well.

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Yes of course it is choice to make, I don't have optics even on all T10 meds. But my point is, that there is no reason to pick exactly 445m as a "enough" VR as you don't spot anything at max range with that. Just as well you could say that 435m, or 455m, is enough, it really just depends on what you want to do. Personally I would not say that 445m is enough, difference you get with something like 480m is really noticeable.

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On 10/11/2017 at 11:59 PM, Mikosah said:

But the usual rules still apply, if you can hit 445m view range without optics, then why the hell would you use optics? Even for tanks that depend a lot on vision, there's only like 3 maps that really force you to play vision games, in any of the other maps just not being blind is good enough. Corridor meta strong, da tovarish?

Because stacking 500+ view range can be absolutely game breaking. And no, at least half the maps have very useful places to utilize vision and on almost all maps it is occasionally useful. Combined with some good camo crews you are free to take a dump on everyone who thinks 400-450m view range is enough.

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Chasing MoE is way easier with optics, IMHO.  I two-marked the KT with an anemic 1229 DPG and 1289 WN8.  You read that correctly.  Having 400 base VR in a tier 8 heavy is broken as hell, and stacking on that (see the Loewe thread for perhaps the clearest illustration) gets you some pretty sick spotting damage, especially in tanks with reasonably strong turrets (again, Loewe).

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19 hours ago, dualmaster333 said:

Because stacking 500+ view range can be absolutely game breaking. And no, at least half the maps have very useful places to utilize vision and on almost all maps it is occasionally useful. Combined with some good camo crews you are free to take a dump on everyone who thinks 400-450m view range is enough.

I get a little thrill every time I fire on some tier X medium at 400-445 and then 6th doesn't go off. And my chode gets stiff when I stumble into some tier X tank at 325-370m in the open but don't get lit. I know they're about to get slapped hard.

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