27 posts in this topic

So this is just an easy and probably stupid idea but nonetheless I'd like to have a discussion with you guys. 

Up to now we all know there are some problems with this mode, like incredible gold spam, lots of camping to earn chevrons even when you lose and the reward aka iEquipment that will be problematic for those new or weaker players who did not earn enough bonds.

Since it is still in "beta" I hope ( or illude myself ) that WG will fix these problems. My idea is first to remove iEquipment, because this is  bad for all players: good players will have to play and fight for long hours just to keep being competitive while bad players will have even a bigger gap to fill that will not be directly correlated to skill.

In exchange as many people said, players should be awarded with unique skins, to show off in battles. This will reduce the amount of pressure to play this mode, the amount of camping and gold spam. Plus it will be a good burst to your epeen. 

Another thing they should do (but I am not too convinced myself on this) is to remove the chevrons given to losing player and reduce the number of people earning them when winning, like five or seven instead of twelve: this will allow less camping because you will need to win and to make damage, therefore to play more aggressively. Since it will be harder to earn chevrons I believe they should increase the number of them earned per battle and/or decrease the number of chevrons required to advance a rank.

Addressing the last problem I believe WG should cut the gold amount you can carry to 10-15-20% reducing gold spam overall. Sure tanks like the Batchat would get gimped the most because of the smaller ammo rack so I would fix it by giving all tanks a maximum amount of ammo of 50 (or more if you think is needed). In this way gold ammo will be reduced overall even if players have to be more aggressive. Another thing that I want is free ammo. Yes i might be talking more for my self, but playing this game already  with a standard account is tough and I can't, and could not afford playing ranked I'd like to see all of the above, to be added even in Randoms  and all mods since paying for buying and repairing tanks is already enough. 

 

So what are your thoughts?

 

 

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Really, its not tanks like the BC that would suffer, its heavies with shitty AP rounds facing all of the mice and Type 5s.  If you are in an IS-7 with only 250 pen AP and you are in a brawling corner against 2-3 HE slinging Type 5s, its GG if you don't have the 2 button.  And I'm not talking about have 5-10 gold rounds (with IS-7 gun handling half of those are in the dirt) I'm talking about 20+ of them - you are toast.

The whole chevron system is borked, you have to give players on a losing team a reason to keep fighting when MM RNG decides to stack the deck against them.  I don't know how to fix it, though the point system is BS.  Right now the whole thing is just too grindy.

We'll see about iEquipment, it could work with restrictions I think (maybe a per game charge like high octane fuel) or maybe not.  Until we start seeing it mounted who knows.

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1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Up to now we all know there are some problems with this mode, like incredible gold spam, lots of camping to earn chevrons even when you lose and the reward aka iEquipment that will be problematic for those new or weaker players who did not earn enough bonds.

Since it is still in "beta" I hope ( or illude myself ) that WG will fix these problems. My idea is first to remove iEquipment, because this is  bad for all players: good players will have to play and fight for long hours just to keep being competitive while bad players will have even a bigger gap to fill that will not be directly correlated to skill.

In exchange as many people said, players should be awarded with unique skins, to show off in battles. This will reduce the amount of pressure to play this mode, the amount of camping and gold spam. Plus it will be a good burst to your epeen. 

That'd be an easy fix if they stop cutting people from the leaderboard every week. iEquipment wouldn't be that unbalanced if relatively a large amount of players get them sooner or later. Also just make them fit only tier 10s. So no new players have to deal with them.

 

1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Another thing they should do (but I am not too convinced myself on this) is to remove the chevrons given to losing player and reduce the number of people earning them when winning, like five or seven instead of twelve: this will allow less camping because you will need to win and to make damage, therefore to play more aggressively. Since it will be harder to earn chevrons I believe they should increase the number of them earned per battle and/or decrease the number of chevrons required to advance a rank.

I disagree. I often win and am outside of even 12 places because I'm the only motherfucker trying to win and no one knows have cover means. So enemies have a field day. If you win and only 5 people get the point (fuck that stupid chevron word) then it promotes much much more camping.

 

1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Addressing the last problem I believe WG should cut the gold amount you can carry to 10-15-20% reducing gold spam overall. Sure tanks like the Batchat would get gimped the most because of the smaller ammo rack so I would fix it by giving all tanks a maximum amount of ammo of 50 (or more if you think is needed). In this way gold ammo will be reduced overall even if players have to be more aggressive. Another thing that I want is free ammo. Yes i might be talking more for my self, but playing this game already  with a standard account is tough and I can't, and could not afford playing ranked I'd like to see all of the above, to be added even in Randoms  and all mods since paying for buying and repairing tanks is already enough.

 

I don't think gold is a problem. Everyone slings it. Just the economy needs a slight fix. Even with all that gold yellows in superheavies like the type 5 still make it to rank 5 faster than much better players so gold isn't a problem for them. 

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I think they need to make the next 3-5 players below the top 3 not lose a chervron on the losing team. Or, maybe, have the top 3 not gain one either. That would force people to play for the win instead of the farming top 3 mentality. 

I dont think gold spam is an issue, or literally everyone would just play Maus/Type 5. As it was last night in my E5 I fired all 20 of my gold rounds on killing a Type 5 and an E3 that were holding up our entire team. They would of just auto won if I had a limited supply of it or none. 

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I still maintain that relying on team dynamics in a mode that's supposed to be about individual skill was a mistake from the start. Were it up to me, post-match scoring would be done as a single group containing all 30 players sorted by base EXP without any modification for win/loss. As for the concern that this would encourage redline sniping, that's already the norm. But to encourage aggression, step two ought to be changing the ratio of experience earned via assists. Earning more from spotting/tracking assists and damaging enemies that you can actually spot for yourself, earning much less from hanging in the back and mooching off someone else's eyes.

As for code 22, I repeat what the others have said, a necessary evil to counter the ultra-fatties. Rather than prohibit it, I say do the opposite- give everyone an allowance of gold shells. At the end of each match, refund the price of a certain number of premium rounds. Doesn't have to be many, just a handful would do it. Besides, armor is mindless and frankly the more that the meta shifts away from it, the better.

The chevron system on the other hand seems really weird to me. Everyone's paranoid their team will lose and so they play ultra passive to hedge their bets. And they can't be blamed for that, precisely why relying on team dynamics was so stupid in the first place. Anyway my real problem with the chevrons themselves is that its blind to the difference between a good match and a bad one. Anyone can be carried on the winning side and earn the same one chevron as the guy who worked his balls off to do the carrying in the first place. Same argument for the losing team, how often is it that the top three are so worthy of reward but the bottom twelve are somehow different? WG is gambling on the notion that in the long run things work out. You'll only be carried so often, and that sooner or later the system will filter the good players from the bad. But we don't have all day, we only get so many hours to grind in ranked so it baffles me that they think their filter will do its job.

The answer is to differentiate the really amazing matches from the mediocrities. Set up some rules where victory might be worth one chevron or two, dealing your own hit points would add another, various other tasks/awards may yield yet more, so on and so forth so that the difference isn't the simple gain one or lose one, but more like potentially gaining a dozen chevrons for a solid ace, or losing a couple for AFK/Botting/TKing. If they need to increase the number of chevrons between ranks, or increase the number of ranks, then so be it.

Improved equipment are only a problem because it takes ages of grinding in this one particular and exclusive mode to get ahold of them. If we could buy them for credits, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Directives could be such a sweet solution to multiple problems if they just did one simple thing- make the 'sixth sense' directive free of charge to use. Yes, you know what that means, that's basically giving every crew sixth sense for free. And no one could then complain that the directives slot is this thing that only a few ranked weirdos have access to. Win-freakin'-win.

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I'd love to see players names along with clan rags completely removed myself... no xvm is a good start though 

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I don't really understand how gold spam is even considered an issue for a ranked mode.

The only real solutions that need to be set in place are as follows:

1) Get rid of chevrons for losses. Punish the camping and selfish scumbags who red line 24/7. You should not be theoretically allowed to get #1 on the ladder without a single win.

2) Place more emphasis on wins. Have some sort of elo system. Are you winning a lot and contributing significantly more than average? Get more elo/chevrons than the guy who got carried. Alternatively get rid of chevrons and use elo. Say NO to failing your way up.

3) Seriously redesign maps. Honestly. It's even more apparent how horrid map design is when you are trying to break hard camps. Give leverage to allow others to outplay.

4) Force UI to not show names/tags. I practically quit playing ranked because yolos are even more apparent. Focus should be based on who is currently kicking your team's behind.

5) Seriously get fucking rid of the current leaderboard. Top 10%^n weeks is a horrible measurement of "skill" or rank. 

6) Can this game mode seriously not be more of a grind than trying to get the trimmed completionist cape on RS3 a main/ironman whilst maxing an osrs main/ironman whilst simultaneously playing any number of korean mmos?

7) Team comp balance. One thing that comes to mind are the constant super heavies vs insta-HE pen comps on brawl maps.

8 ) whatever else im forgetting

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A good start would also just tell the truth and remove the "top10% of the leaderboard" and just say that it's top 1% of the active server. 

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6 minutes ago, DHP said:

A good start would also just tell the truth and remove the "top10% of the leaderboard" and just say that it's top 1% of the active server. 

Even less than that lul

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I agree about the Chevron system. It has force a “meta” onto the players when it really shouldn’t.

 

Remove chevron. Remove rating on ONE battle. The rating should be done on a 10 battles average or more maybe just the weekly average with a minimum of battles (maybe it be could the average of your best 30 battles of the week). Rank doesn’t show the skill it shows the commitment of the player 24/7.

 

Also issue #1 imo: WOT is a good game but it has MAJOR flaws. MM imbalance, Map imbalance, tank imbalance, credit economy,  xp income. All this force a META that is just horrible on the gameplay. WG NEEDS to balance it’s game BEFORE implementing a ranked gamemode.

 

What is WG solution when “ally’s” do stupid things also ? One game a players drowned 30 sec into the game… Like wtf.. So it’s just 14v15 and deal with it ? Last night got by an ally on purpose after I hit him while he crossed my line of fire. Dude started a fire on me and that was a free tier 10 for the enemy pretty much…

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3 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

I don't really understand how gold spam is even considered an issue for a ranked mode

Because if you dont you lose a lot of competitiveness due to rng and to dealing with super heavies and I simply cant afford it. In my opinion this means pay to play. This is the reason why I'd want free ammo for all modes. The limitation to gold ammo would be added simply because I would like armour to be still important on tanks beside the Maus or Type 5. Plus it would be a limitation to the HE bullshit round the Type 5 gets. In reality what i really want is premium shells removal, rng reduction and reintroduction of weakspots. We all know this will not happen. So I'd be fine i guess with no gold spam limitation but there must then a full ammo refund. Otherwise this is just another cashgrab. 

10 hours ago, kariverson said:

 

I don't think gold is a problem. Everyone slings it. Just the economy needs a slight fix. Even with all that gold yellows in superheavies like the type 5 still make it to rank 5 faster than much better players so gold isn't a problem for them. 

Why yellow player cant have defenders or premium accounts? My problem is there are people like me who dont and get surpassed as you said because they get a type 5, press the 2 key and derp their way to rank 5. Well I cant. I would have to spend so much time grinding for credits that it would be insane. Again this is pay to play.

I am happy to see that people are coming up with different ideas for ranking better than mine. 

But I still think that iEquipment is terrible and buying it for credits is even worse, it would just increase the amount of paying or grinding to be competitive. And this is bullshit. We already have to grind to play the game with tanks we want. Doing even for playing at par with others is just stupid. Yes I believe even equipment should be for free.

But then WG would lose so much income, how are they going to make money?! Well you already pay 50€ for a pixeled tank i think they have made enough money for now.

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I honestly can't see this game mode surviving beta, not like this anyway. 

Dropping 30-40k per game is crazy and would make the average Joe like me stop playing straight away. 

Not limiting it to tier 10 would be.nice also, a tier 6 or tier 8 would be nice so we could use premiums. We know the mm is more than capable of dropping same tier games across the board.

Or maybe this whole game mode was introduced so WG could bring out tier 10 premium tanks.... Kek

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First fix I would propose? Opening the mode for longer so that people like me that log in to play at funny hours aren't permanently locked out due to the darned ceasefire always being active... :(

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2 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

Because if you dont you lose a lot of competitiveness due to rng and to dealing with super heavies and I simply cant afford it. In my opinion this means pay to play. This is the reason why I'd want free ammo for all modes. The limitation to gold ammo would be added simply because I would like armour to be still important on tanks beside the Maus or Type 5. Plus it would be a limitation to the HE bullshit round the Type 5 gets. In reality what i really want is premium shells removal, rng reduction and reintroduction of weakspots. We all know this will not happen. So I'd be fine i guess with no gold spam limitation but there must then a full ammo refund. Otherwise this is just another cashgrab. 

Why yellow player cant have defenders or premium accounts? My problem is there are people like me who dont and get surpassed as you said because they get a type 5, press the 2 key and derp their way to rank 5. Well I cant. I would have to spend so much time grinding for credits that it would be insane. Again this is pay to play.

You're one of those EU players. This is the type of backwards- assed thinking that turned wot into what it is today.

Mate, I hate to break it to you, but even premium accounts bleed credits in that mode because of the necessity of prem rounds to brute force through RNG/superheavies. You also completely misunderstood the points.

Facts of the matter at hand:

- superheavies overbuffed. God-tier status on most maps simply because they dont have to give any shits about being shot at

- limiting the use of premium rounds would gimp players like YOU even harder because, hey, you still can't afford them and now you can't trade anywhere as decently as before. It's sort of like telling competitive FPS players to use knives only because any ranged weapon is "unfair" to the guy who would have lost the trade regardless.

- grind credits to play the mode. Most people grind sh then play that mode you know. Literally everyone is bleeding credits.

The fact that you call it "pay2play" is a fallacy.

Armour has and always has been relevant. It's the vast majority of players placing their tank completely sideways to something and complaining that their tank isn't impenetrable that led to the current pattern of overbuffed heavies. Maus armor was already good before. But hey, fuck it. Let's make it even stronger. And that's when Maus hype arrived. Same for the type 5.

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Would love to see a ranked system similar to wgl. 7v7, map bans and picks, tank picks and bans (more similar to LoL than wgl.) then make it best of 5 so having a shit game out of 3 or 4 games isn't such a big deal if you do well in the rest. 

 

Or introduce respawns so matches continue for longer than the 5 minute yolo we have now. 

 

 

I'm not a dev so im not sure how well it would be balanced, but it sounds alot more fun than 15v15 tryharding teals 

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1 hour ago, Fulcrous said:

You're one of those EU players. This is the type of backwards- assed thinking that turned wot into what it is today.

Mate, I hate to break it to you, but even premium accounts bleed credits in that mode because of the necessity of prem rounds to brute force through RNG/superheavies. You also completely misunderstood the points.

Facts of the matter at hand:

- superheavies overbuffed. God-tier status on most maps simply because they dont have to give any shits about being shot at

- limiting the use of premium rounds would gimp players like YOU even harder because, hey, you still can't afford them and now you can't trade anywhere as decently as before. It's sort of like telling competitive FPS players to use knives only because any ranged weapon is "unfair" to the guy who would have lost the trade regardless.

- grind credits to play the mode. Most people grind sh then play that mode you know. Literally everyone is bleeding credits.

The fact that you call it "pay2play" is a fallacy.

Armour has and always has been relevant. It's the vast majority of players placing their tank completely sideways to something and complaining that their tank isn't impenetrable that led to the current pattern of overbuffed heavies. Maus armor was already good before. But hey, fuck it. Let's make it even stronger. And that's when Maus hype arrived. Same for the type 5.

If even premium accounts bleed playing this mode imagine without it.... and as I stated before I dont like the idea of gold spamming but i understand why there is a need for it atm this is why I am ok of not limiting or ban it, but they should make ammo free. 

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Superheavies are not only reason for gold spam. Another big reason is amount of russian medium tanks as HEAT is hugely better against russian mediums than APCR. For example 907 whole turret top is soft against HEAT whereas apcr will bounce. When two equally skilled 907 fight each other hull down, one shooting HEAT wins hard. Or when you see o140 peeking over hill and you can just get shoot on his upper front plate but its heavily angled... apcr will autobounce, HEAT no problem comrade...

Basically gold HEAT is just too good most of the time, of course APCR is still superior when shooting lower hulls or from side but chances getting shoots like that are far fewer in CW like ranked battles against better players. So its better just keep gold HEAT loaded and only switch to APCR in special cases like long range against soft targets.

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I'm using Wotnumber so i just know that i on average never loose credit in the long run with a premium account playing random in my T10's. But in this gamemode i just can't. I'm negative after every game. 

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ditch gold shells for this game mode (it was about skill right?) and give only chevrons to the winning team

Type 5 without gold ammo is a total turd, E100 with just AP is ok, if maus (and bat) become a problem, just limit them to 2 a team, or ban them altogether

But WG are big pussys, so they wont do this and thus this game mode will suk ass till they pull it...

ps: again WG wastes lots of time and effort on something total shit, GG

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9 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

Well you already pay 50€ for a pixeled tank i think they have made enough money for now.

Yeah, that's a sure fire recipe for business success.  Damn Apple, didn't you make enough money on iPods?  Why you gotta charge me for phone too?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

ditch gold shells for this game mode (it was about skill right?) and give only chevrons to the winning team

Type 5 without gold ammo is a total turd, E100 with just AP is ok, if maus (and bat) become a problem, just limit them to 2 a team, or ban them altogether

Yeah so we can have 15 vs 15 superheavy battles. Gold is the only way to pen them unless you sidehug them everytime... 

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2 hours ago, kariverson said:

Yeah so we can have 15 vs 15 superheavy battles. Gold is the only way to pen them unless you sidehug them everytime... 

any idea how bad type 5 with normal HE is? + by not giving points for losing, you greatly limit their numbers, super heavys are good for clubbing low tiers and morons, not for breaking camping meds

+ if they become a problem, just limit them to 2 a team (or 1)

anyway, this mode cant be fixed anyway, since the basic idea: same skilled player, is goddam fucking awefull, and anyone who ever played with 14 other unicums without TS knows this...

 

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there's no possible fix for ranked battles until they make sure that actual skill matters

49% retards are in league 1 because they just spammed 300 games in a week in the mode yoloing and eventually climbed ranks

 

give more chevrons to the top 3 on the winning team, and make it top 10 on winning team and top 5 on losing team instead of the current 12-3 so actually taking risks on the losing end isn't as punishing as now (5-0 and the losing team will go into full camp as of now)

no one should be able to get carried, especially considering how campy this shit got, nobody's doing anything if they don't think it benefits themselves and only that and half of these players aren't even close to being skilled enough to deserve the top ranks. 

 

 

i would just up the ranks even more, make it hard to climb that high that fast (no stupid tank ranks, just make it rank 10 instead of rank 5 with more chevrons for overperforming compared to your team so the shitlords can't get lucky and actually catch up)

i don't mind chevrons for a losing team because there should be, if you're the guy that gets matched with 14 retards against a competent team you're simply screwed and no matter your skill you won't be able to win it, you can do your entire ammo capacity of damage early and still lose because of bots - that guy deserves to climb ranks that actually tries

 

i don't necessarily think you need to match rank by rank constantly either, just make the chevron gain/loss related to how supposedly competent the enemy team was (an essentially free win shouldn't net much, but a free win that is a loss is going to fkn rape u cuz u sucked), it's hard to promote teamplay in a mode like this without going full win or no gain when soloqueueing is the only way to get a competitive mode going, and an ELO is obviously better for this, like it is better for everything because skill actually matters. Problem with ELO is that the more players are in your team the less your own skill matters, so it'll need serious tweaking compared to how it works in most other games that have them where it's 5v5 or less

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I just realized that XP earned during ranked battles does not count towards tankrewards XP.  Seriously?  Fuck you WG, that is bullshit.

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6 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

I just realized that XP earned during ranked battles does not count towards tankrewards XP.  Seriously?  Fuck you WG, that is bullshit.

Wait what?

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