kunjuro

Achtung! IS-7 Buffs and Soviet TD Rebalance (9.20)

78 posts in this topic

Given the wealth of data each match generates, such as shots, hits, pens, hits received, pens received, damage dealt, damage received, mileage, spots, cap points, def points, etc, etc, and the PR and battlecount of the players who played in the match, its not hard to make the correct decisions on how to balance a tank. Do incremental changes, patch to patch, followed up by trend monitoring and there you go. 

I guess they just look at winrate..

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14 hours ago, Hally said:

If they don't touch IS-7s terrain resistance, It still won't reach 50kph on medium terrain without downhill assist. Gun handling and hp buff is pretty big, but mobility? nah... it wouldn't change much outside of specific maps like himmels or ruinberg.

Resistance doesnt matter here, formula is: speed = hp/ton + resistance

if it gets 23% more hp/ton, it will go (much) faster.

+ given the wonky translation, i bet they buff the resistance, since 23% buff means buffing the engine from 1050 to 1300 hp, and i cant see them doing that, else they would have said: change engine hp from 1050 to 1300 (and not: Real power-to-weight ratio increased from 15.4 hp/t to 19 hp/t)

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3 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

Given the wealth of data each match generates, such as shots, hits, pens, hits received, pens received, damage dealt, damage received, mileage, spots, cap points, def points, etc, etc, and the PR and battlecount of the players who played in the match, its not hard to make the correct decisions on how to balance a tank. Do incremental changes, patch to patch, followed up by trend monitoring and there you go. 

I guess they just look at winrate..

As an analyst myself I bet there might even be a few people who look at those but probably no one listens to them.

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1 hour ago, Gryphon_ said:

 I guess they just look at winrate..

ISU and Bat-Chat beg to differ.  I honestly think it has more to do with spurring interest in underplayed lines and killing interest in popular tier X lines more than anything else.  People who find a tank they like and are good at tend to - surprise - play it a lot.  Thats bad for business.  Most of the serious balance work has been at tier 10 and tier 8 prems, because thats where the money is.  There are many many more horribly balanced tanks in lower tiers, but nobody is cashing in free-XP chips to get the Matilda.

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Well not like this is game breaking like 9.18 arty, new MM, and an un-needed batchat nerf...........

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1 hour ago, Archaic_One said:

ISU and Bat-Chat beg to differ.  I honestly think it has more to do with spurring interest in underplayed lines and killing interest in popular tier X lines more than anything else.  People who find a tank they like and are good at tend to - surprise - play it a lot.  Thats bad for business.  Most of the serious balance work has been at tier 10 and tier 8 prems, because thats where the money is.  There are many many more horribly balanced tanks in lower tiers, but nobody is cashing in free-XP chips to get the Matilda.

I fail to see where the big problem is, in one bloke going over the statistics and looking for tanks that are clear outliers and fiddle about with them. Not much, just a little, patch by patch. The whole reason the game is in the sorry state it is in, is them not getting their heads out of their arse and only trying to milk it the most they can in the short term. Them fucking up so badly, is the entire reason that so many of the highly active players stopped playing the game, which are, coincidentally, also the players that likely invest a metric arseload of money into the game over the course of their career or that motivate other players to play just by their mere presence (in clans for example).

Same for new maps or new game-modes. How long have people been asking for fixes on specific maps? Mountain Pass, add a fucking third way into both bases to break base-camps more easily. Mines, not being a map that the hightiers are playing on anymore. And so on and on. Little fixes that could have gone a long way in retaining players, but no, let's introduce consequtively more OP T8 premiums for no reason whatsoever. Brilliant strategy, who could have forseen that this would bite them in the arse even more *slowclap*

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How do you all feel with these changes that the IS7 will compare in playstyle to the T-10? Currently grinding the T-10 and have been amazed how well it suits me and how good it is.. small sample but after 54 battles in it I am 61% win rate in the thing which is wayyy over my green shitter overall stats. Frankly it feels OP. To be fair I normally prefer to be a medium/light tank player and suck at most slow heavies so I guess if I am going to not suck at a heavy it would be a high mobility one like the T-10.

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On t10, tier 9 is god tier atm, and the t10 is arguably the best of the bunch. Not that it will help you, but the 111111115a may be a closer match for the mobility, armour and gun side, while the is7 improves your armour at the expense of the other two (tho mobility is hard to say without the ground resistance).

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New IS7 is looking extremely good.

Both for playing and for the overall health of this game.

A High mobility, high armor, high health HT with relatively low DPM is a good way of curbing the once again emergent sov med meta at tier 10.

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The ISU was OP??  Sure the gun was good but you have no real ability to flank and no real armour so you got to wreck from a distance most times and the gun has no accuracy.

I guess the real reason is people were not grinding the tier 9 &10's , so instead of fix the tier 9 they nerf the tier 8 :/

As a semi casual player I'd pissed with the continual fuckery on the top tier shit

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Press 2, be ISU of old. Can't have fun and make credits.

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ah the WG answer to every question...

Soon we'll have nothing but bunkers with stocks of prem ammo

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42 minutes ago, zarphag said:

The ISU was OP??  Sure the gun was good but you have no real ability to flank and no real armour so you got to wreck from a distance most times and the gun has no accuracy.

I guess the real reason is people were not grinding the tier 9 &10's , so instead of fix the tier 9 they nerf the tier 8 :/

As a semi casual player I'd pissed with the continual fuckery on the top tier shit

What's your opinion on the tier 8 gun in the game that has the highest alpha, 2nd highest pen with AP after the Sweds (286 vs 288) and 2nd highest APCR pen after Sweden (328 vs 330)?

No, you can't have high alpha and miles high AP pen at the same time. As mentioned above you can still 2-key your pen problems away but you won't need it nearly as much as before since you won't be up against 10+ T10 superheavies.

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My opinion? its that I play my scorp g a hell lot more because its more fun and more use.

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12 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

Why is none of us a super tester? And know i imagine tomatos complaining "OH IS7 IS SO FUCKING OP WG DID NOT NEED TO BUFF ALREADY OP RUSSIAN TANK. RUSSIAN BIAS WG DEVS ARE STUPID". Funny enough this time tomatos will have role in this buff, now that they lowered wr. So they are going to complain about their own stupidity for once. Also proves again how well devs understand this game. Lets not ask ESL players but average retard joe's opinion. He must know what he is doing to win less than a coin flip

I think they evaluate data more than complaints. If not, they could use forum as rebalance tool, everyday some fool craying about buff or nerf and have their own version of that tank. 

 

Also i think all WG’s decisions are money driven rather than “feel” of community. And I respect that if they keep game alive (which they did for several years).

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2 hours ago, BlackAdder said:

Also i think all WG’s decisions are money driven rather than “feel” of community. And I respect that if they keep game alive (which they did for several years).

Liberte, Patriot, 252, Chrysler K, Maus-buff. They all were good financially. It stands to reason that they are doing the opposite of keeping the game alive. What would keep the game alive is an overall rebalancing and taking care of tank-lines that are treated like red-headed step-children for far too long (hello brits), including the lower tiers to make it more fair and balanced for newer players, map-changes and bringing back Clan Wars or something similar already, because as is, more and more of the high activity clans are collapsing onto themselves, out of sheer boredom of both ever-same meta and a lack of things to do. The drive to ever-increasing tank-maintenance costs (need for premium ammo) isn't exactly healthy for the activity of the player-base either, if rumors from the russian server are to be believed.

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What has happened on the Russian server? 

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55 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Liberte, Patriot, 252, Chrysler K, Maus-buff. They all were good financially. It stands to reason that they are doing the opposite of keeping the game alive. What would keep the game alive is an overall rebalancing and taking care of tank-lines that are treated like red-headed step-children for far too long (hello brits), including the lower tiers to make it more fair and balanced for newer players, map-changes and bringing back Clan Wars or something similar already, because as is, more and more of the high activity clans are collapsing onto themselves, out of sheer boredom of both ever-same meta and a lack of things to do. The drive to ever-increasing tank-maintenance costs (need for premium ammo) isn't exactly healthy for the activity of the player-base either, if rumors from the russian server are to be believed.

I can only say this, while we debating about game changes game is still alive and they are milking playerbase. Sinple as that. 

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32 minutes ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

What has happened on the Russian server? 

Apparently quite a number of the bigger clans over there are in the process of collapsing or have collapsed, partially because their players can not afford to play the game anymore, as the rewards from clan wars didn't hold up with the running costs of an account. I can only imagine it got worse with the vanishing of CW alltogether.

And before any wise-arse comes along to point out, that those people didn't spent money anyways; you are forgetting that it is the high-activity players that keep the community going and attract new people, a community and potential people that spend money. Without those people? Look at Armored Warfare. Not going so well, is it?

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5 hours ago, Haswell said:

No, you can't have high alpha and miles high AP pen at the same time. 

Yeah fair call... this newly introduced tank is breaking the game...

As you note, now the 2 key will be pressed more for arbitrary revenue raisins, because WG.

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1 hour ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

What has happened on the Russian server? 

IS there a longer thread/explanation of the situation? I was not aware there of this issue at all and I am interested as it may influence WG decisions (biggest player base).

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23 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

Apparently quite a number of the bigger clans over there are in the process of collapsing or have collapsed, partially because their players can not afford to play the game anymore, as the rewards from clan wars didn't hold up with the running costs of an account. I can only imagine it got worse with the vanishing of CW alltogether.

And before any wise-arse comes along to point out, that those people didn't spent money anyways; you are forgetting that it is the high-activity players that keep the community going and attract new people, a community and potential people that spend money. Without those people? Look at Armored Warfare. Not going so well, is it?

I was wondering, how the Russian player can afford to play the game after the "recent" changes...

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All these changes dont effect me in the slightest, infact, they make it only worse....

  • i have everything unlocked, (well, need Strv 103 and Kranv + lights, but fuck lights)
  • i have more as hundred tanks, tons of spare food / garage slots / crews
  • 80 million credits

Which means the ONLY REASON for me to play / spend money, will be play 4 fun... (no need for any kind of grind)

Yet WG is fucking with my fun:

  • middle tiers suk dik, for ages
  • tier 7/8 platoons suk dik
  • grinding stock tanks with just some AP / bad crews, suks dik
  • spamming gold ammo is a winning tektik

soooo

WG is both making sure i wont spend real money on this game, (bad for WG) due to badly balanced tanks / pissing me of with shitty ass gameplay (lights, strong premiums, tier 10 tanks getting buff after buff) AND at the same time forcing me to shoot a lot of gold ammo / play high tiers, this might all ``work`` for peasants, aka 99.99% of the playerbase, who wont be able to keep playing tier 10 full gold, WITHOUT also spending real money

But for me?

I wont renew my prem account and can keep playing for years to come while blazing HEAT in T54, my heat spam +  unicunt skills will also drive a way a ton of people who wont like getting outplayer and outgunned game after game, and while others do the same, they are ``part of the community``, via cw / streaming / forum / whatever, but im not involved in any kind of community thing, because fuck WG so im as player a big fat sunk cost thing, i dont ``attract new players``, instead, i cause people to quit...

Unicums, spamming gold in full IS6`s platoons are bad for the game, but the solution WG choose to fix this only makes it worse...

ps: i rather not shoot gold, and instead collect MOAR CREDITS, but if WG tunnels the game into OP tank vs OP tank contest, so be it...

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3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

All these changes dont effect me in the slightest, infact, they make it only worse....

  • i have everything unlocked, (well, need Strv 103 and Kranv + lights, but fuck lights)
  • i have more as hundred tanks, tons of spare food / garage slots / crews
  • 80 million credits

Which means the ONLY REASON for me to play / spend money, will be play 4 fun... (no need for any kind of grind)

Yet WG is fucking with my fun:

  • middle tiers suk dik, for ages
  • tier 7/8 platoons suk dik
  • grinding stock tanks with just some AP / bad crews, suks dik
  • spamming gold ammo is a winning tektik

soooo

WG is both making sure i wont spend real money on this game, (bad for WG) due to badly balanced tanks / pissing me of with shitty ass gameplay (lights, strong premiums, tier 10 tanks getting buff after buff) AND at the same time forcing me to shoot a lot of gold ammo / play high tiers, this might all ``work`` for peasants, aka 99.99% of the playerbase, who wont be able to keep playing tier 10 full gold, WITHOUT also spending real money

But for me?

I wont renew my prem account and can keep playing for years to come while blazing HEAT in T54, my heat spam +  unicunt skills will also drive a way a ton of people who wont like getting outplayer and outgunned game after game, and while others do the same, they are ``part of the community``, via cw / streaming / forum / whatever, but im not involved in any kind of community thing, because fuck WG so im as player a big fat sunk cost thing, i dont ``attract new players``, instead, i cause people to quit...

Unicums, spamming gold in full IS6`s platoons are bad for the game, but the solution WG choose to fix this only makes it worse...

ps: i rather not shoot gold, and instead collect MOAR CREDITS, but if WG tunnels the game into OP tank vs OP tank contest, so be it...

So how did you manage to stack all them credits? I always tend to collect some, but then I spend all on 3 MoE grind or try hard full prem tier X :D

Je hebt gelijk and of course, I agree with what you've said...

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Leggasiini, I know you are reading here too, so sorry for ripping this off of The Armored Patrol Board:

Quote

leggasiini

“when will chrysler and 252 get weakspots”

Never.

They are probably saving the IS-4 rework for later announcement, and they are probably not leaking all changes that are on supertest. They save some stuff for the full patchnotes before test server

To which came this reply:

Quote

D

252 got cupola weakspot and reasonable lfp for tanks with 220 pen+ to shoot through, while chrysler has none

This hits one like a brick if someone writes it down and rightfully someone points out:

Quote

SpeedyCraft51

“Responsable lfp for tanks with 220+ pen”

This is not a weakspot. This tank is tier 8, not 10. Tier 8 tanks have for years had around 180mm pen as a standard, with 200+ for german meds and 220+ only for heavies when full. 220mm is not a weakspot at this tier. At tier 8 a weakspot would be below 180mm thick.

Now, one can argue about the exact numbers, but the gist is perfectly right. I still remember coming into this game, the french had recently arrived, the british were not on the horizon yet, and I vividly remember how the german tanks were advertised as having "highly accurate, high penetration guns". The Tiger I's 203mm penetration at tier 7 was considered high (though the rest of the tank, pre RoF-buff was garbage but that is a different story). The Löwe, despite all it's flaws, was something you didn't want to face at longer ranges where it could offset it's low DPM by trading shots, while your attempts to hit weakspots ended with shots to the moon, he straight up planted his shot through the thickest parts of your armor. The ARL 44 with it's 90mm DCA45 and absolutely cancerous gun handling was considered a threat even for T8 tanks.

Nowadays though? Yes. 220mm armor on T8 is considered reasonable weakspot. Just... What? :notlikethis:

Now mind you, the tanky tanks always had a problem with their armor not working, due to usually being riddled with way too many weakspots for their own good and being generally weak to gold ammo and some of them certainly needed help, but once upon a time, removing the ball-bulged machingun ports on german tanks from the damage model was considered a big deal buff. Nowadays though? Yeah... Half the garbage accessory that would have been weakspots in the olden days on a Chrysler K is not even part of the collision model...

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