FlorbFnarb

Anybody play primarily cruisers?

63 posts in this topic

The word I got was that BBs and DDs are the best lines, so I've gotten to Tier 4 in American BBs and DDs, and have the Tier 3 German BB, but honestly my most played ship is the American Tier 3 cruiser St. Louis.  Lots of reasonably accurate guns.  BBs can be fun at times, but holy shit they take forever to get into the fight, and their guns seem so incredibly inaccurate that it can be endlessly frustrating; many times I've shot at an enemy ship from as little as 6 klicks, and although I use the proper amount of lead, the spread is so wide I'll see shots go over, under, left, and right, and get maybe one hit out of it.  Incredibly frustrating to use the proper amount of lead and have my guns act like a shotgun spreading shot all over.

DDs can be fun and devastating when you get that three-toro strike, but they're so fragile that it can be difficult to get within that 5 klick torpedo range to strike and survive.

Cruisers seem to be able to get into the fight and stay in the fight.  Anybody focus on cruisers?  What's the best cruiser line in the game and what's the single best cruiser?

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3 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

single best cruiser?

belfast

IJN CL line is one of the best

RN line is good starting from tier 6, but requires experience and very good situational experience.

USN line is good, although i feel the Des is not really viable in solo play at the moment (far too map and team comp dependent) 

French line is boring AF, long range HE spammers that arent as good as the IJN ones

Soviet CL are good but somewhat unequal, requiring captain respects

German line is questionable, the konigsberg is great but suffers from MM, Nurnberg, even after the buffs is a free exp piniata for any BB, and the rest are sorta meh, dont know about the Hindenburg, but german BB's are much much better

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You're in for a rough speed bump once you hit T5. Just a word of warning, T5 cruisers are in a brutal spot right now thanks to matchmaking.

IJN cruisers are probably the best line for beginners, go for that one. 

 

 

 

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The St Louis is not representative of playing cruisers. It is slow and incredibly tanky. After tier 3, that is true of zero cruisers.

I bring this up because you mention "stay in the fight" as a reason to play them. Most cruisers require very careful control of space, line of sight, terrain, timing (between shots etc) and the like to keep alive. In return they get good to great DPM and piles of utility gadgets.

In fact, there's a tendency to describe destroyers as "like light tanks in WoT". But really, unless you're just bush spotting, cruisers are the light tanks / light mediums.

To get a more representative feeling of what playing high tier cruisers will be like, without going halfway up the trees, I'd suggest playing the tier 3/4 French cruisers, or the 3/4 IJN cruisers.

The word I got was that BBs and DDs are the best lines

Eh.. eeeeh. BBs are the most forgiving. DDs (particularly japanese ones) allow people who are bad at managing threats to feel like they're in the game for long periods of time. Cruisers carry just as hard (if not harder), but aren't as easy to do instantly well in.

Ironically, this is a changed belief. In the early days of WoWS before the noobs got to fairly average level of aim, BBs were considered the 'skilled' ship, while every idiot and his boy were derping around in Clevelands firing a million shells per minute - just because the weight of fire (and fire set) made up for the bad aim.

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Christ it's weird how damage varies from one match to the next.  I just did 54k damage in a Tier 2 Chikuma in a Tier 3 match.  Helps that I set 8 fires, I guess.

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3 hours ago, Crossfader said:

belfast

IJN CL line is one of the best

RN line is good starting from tier 6, but requires experience and very good situational experience.

USN line is good, although i feel the Des is not really viable in solo play at the moment (far too map and team comp dependent) 

French line is boring AF, long range HE spammers that arent as good as the IJN ones

Soviet CL are good but somewhat unequal, requiring captain respects

German line is questionable, the konigsberg is great but suffers from MM, Nurnberg, even after the buffs is a free exp piniata for any BB, and the rest are sorta meh, dont know about the Hindenburg, but german BB's are much much better

Hindenburg is the reward you get after suffering through the mediocre - average ships that comprises the rest of the German cruiser line. Is is good, very good. It suffers from having horrible stealth and low maneuverability, but it makes up for with by having great guns that are viable with both AP and HE and having the best protective scheme of any cruiser in the game. The Hindy can just shrug off a lot of damage be instantly fatal to any of the other tier ten cruisers. While she won't out brawl most BB's she will give them a good show, and at long range can make them regret pressing the battle button. At the same time she makes every other cruiser shit its pants as long as the Hindy captain isn't a mouth breathing retard. In the Hindenburg the only time I really fear any other cruiser is when they have created a situation where they can see me, and fire at me, without me being able to see them, because if I can see them and shoot at them they are probably going to die.

 

Also, I disagree on your comments on the Des Moines. It is viable enough for solo play. Though I will admit that it is much stronger when played in the division.

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3 hours ago, How_Terrible said:

Also, I disagree on your comments on the Des Moines. It is viable enough for solo play. Though I will admit that it is much stronger when played in the division.

Im comparing Des to my other tier X cruisers, (Zao, Mino and Moskva) and she is by far the one that is affected by map/team comp. She can be brutal in the right position, but is so dependent on maps and game modes (fuck standard battles) its a gamble everytime you hit battle. With the other 3, i dont really care about it as much, because they all have strengths which make them viable on any map/gamemode (range for Moskva, stealth+range on Zao and smoke+stealth on Mino)

If i had to pick a cruiser without knowing map/mode, i would never take the Des.

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Everyone had mentioned the Hindenburg on the German line. While it is a great ship, and very fun to play, the Roon is also a great ship. In fact I think the Roon is a better cruiser compared to other tier 9 cruisers than the Hindenburg is compared to tier 10 cruisers. The konisberg and nurnburg are also fun cruisers but like people have said MM hurts then and you see too many tier 7 and 8 battles.

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2 hours ago, MntRunner said:

Everyone had mentioned the Hindenburg on the German line. While it is a great ship, and very fun to play, the Roon is also a great ship. In fact I think the Roon is a better cruiser compared to other tier 9 cruisers than the Hindenburg is compared to tier 10 cruisers. The konisberg and nurnburg are also fun cruisers but like people have said MM hurts then and you see too many tier 7 and 8 battles.

I don't know why but I just couldn't make the Roon work worth a damn. Pretty much everyone else I know that has the Hindenburg loved the Roon, but I just couldn't make to work and hated it because of that.

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6 minutes ago, How_Terrible said:

I don't know why but I just couldn't make the Roon work worth a damn. Pretty much everyone else I know that has the Hindenburg loved the Roon, but I just couldn't make to work and hated it because of that.

With different people some ships click and some ships don't. 

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8 hours ago, bathoz said:

Ironically, this is a changed belief. In the early days of WoWS before the noobs got to fairly average level of aim, BBs were considered the 'skilled' ship, while every idiot and his boy were derping around in Clevelands firing a million shells per minute - just because the weight of fire (and fire set) made up for the bad aim.

Yeah, also once AFT/BFT no longer helped out CLs, that 6-inch spamming was a lot riskier and less rewarding. So the shitters moved into battleships, which were still long range 'safe' class. Of course they give even less contribution to a match sitting behind everyone else in a BB firing every 30 seconds than they did when their fucking Cleveland could at least walk moon-arc shells over some targets, so matches in general got even more agonizing.

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I started to play as cruisers because I thought BBs were too clumsy/irresponsive and 30 sec reload was scary because I was not able to hit/lead targets reliably. Then WG released German BBs and everything has changed for me :)

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Florb, the BB aiming and speed thing you're seeing is true for only low tier BBs, once you get to like, tier 5 and higher they get progressively more accurate. Tier 3 BBs are all slow as hell and innacurate as hell. My Yamato is more accurate at 20km than they are at 5km. 

They also start getting way faster, with the exception of US BBs until you get to tier 8 (up to Collorado are all Dreadnaughts. = 20kn top speed) for example my Amagi can keep up with Cruisers and even my Yamato can nudge 30kn on a good day. 

Its to the point where, almost even moreso than WoT, low tier WoWS play is not representive of what high tier play is like, you could even make 2 teams of top tier 10 players into tier 3 and it would play entirely different.

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1 hour ago, Mnemon said:

Yeah, also once AFT/BFT no longer helped out CLs, that 6-inch spamming was a lot riskier and less rewarding. So the shitters moved into battleships, which were still long range 'safe' class. Of course they give even less contribution to a match sitting behind everyone else in a BB firing every 30 seconds than they did when their fucking Cleveland could at least walk moon-arc shells over some targets, so matches in general got even more agonizing.

Yeah, BBs are the class of choice for the same cowards that like to grab a heavy tank, sit on the red line, and farm damage while everybody else is taking all the risks.  They'll defend it to the hilt, too; TONS of people will tell me it's a BB's job to sit in the back and snipe at max range "cuz torpedoes" meaning everybody else has to move up front and run the risks so the BB cowards don't get their paint scuffed.

1 hour ago, favorius said:

I started to play as cruisers because I thought BBs were too clumsy/irresponsive and 30 sec reload was scary because I was not able to hit/lead targets reliably. Then WG released German BBs and everything has changed for me :)

I'll have to keep with it then.

21 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Florb, the BB aiming and speed thing you're seeing is true for only low tier BBs, once you get to like, tier 5 and higher they get progressively more accurate. Tier 3 BBs are all slow as hell and innacurate as hell. My Yamato is more accurate at 20km than they are at 5km. 

They also start getting way faster, with the exception of US BBs until you get to tier 8 (up to Collorado are all Dreadnaughts. = 20kn top speed) for example my Amagi can keep up with Cruisers and even my Yamato can nudge 30kn on a good day. 

Its to the point where, almost even moreso than WoT, low tier WoWS play is not representive of what high tier play is like, you could even make 2 teams of top tier 10 players into tier 3 and it would play entirely different.

Fucking EXCELLENT.  The speed and turret turn rate I've been able to work with; I played enough HTs in WoT to be able to think ahead with BBs.  The accuracy was killing me though; they didn't seem to get any more accurate at 6 km than they were at 15 km.  Shots just bracketing the target left, right, over, and under, all in the same salvo.

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1 hour ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Yeah, BBs are the class of choice for the same cowards that like to grab a heavy tank, sit on the red line, and farm damage while everybody else is taking all the risks.  They'll defend it to the hilt, too; TONS of people will tell me it's a BB's job to sit in the back and snipe at max range "cuz torpedoes" meaning everybody else has to move up front and run the risks so the BB cowards don't get their paint scuffed.

I'll have to keep with it then.

Fucking EXCELLENT.  The speed and turret turn rate I've been able to work with; I played enough HTs in WoT to be able to think ahead with BBs.  The accuracy was killing me though; they didn't seem to get any more accurate at 6 km than they were at 15 km.  Shots just bracketing the target left, right, over, and under, all in the same salvo.

Yep, thats a thing at low tier just so BBs dont constantly just delete other low tier ships. Most BBs at low tier have lots and lots of guns so if they were as accurate as they are at higher tiers you can imagine how often even a mediocre player with some experience would just farm 1 salvo deletes on the enemy newbs that drive broadside in straight lines.

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3 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Yep, thats a thing at low tier just so BBs dont constantly just delete other low tier ships. Most BBs at low tier have lots and lots of guns so if they were as accurate as they are at higher tiers you can imagine how often even a mediocre player with some experience would just farm 1 salvo deletes on the enemy newbs that drive broadside in straight lines.

I'm a bad person who enjoys the Koenig Albert, Nikolai I, Clemson, and Kamikaze/Fujin.

 

Then again, I've noticed nowadays it doesn't matter. Phoenix, Karlsruhe, German DD's, Kuma? It's going to be a massacre regardless.

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Is it just me or is the St. Louis a really good low tier ship?  A hell of a lot of guns, a knack for setting BBs on fire with HE, and what looks like a pretty serious armor belt in the middle for a cruiser at that tier.

I can't even tell, really, I don't have enough experience in WoWS, but it sure feels like a good one.

7 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Yep, thats a thing at low tier just so BBs dont constantly just delete other low tier ships. Most BBs at low tier have lots and lots of guns so if they were as accurate as they are at higher tiers you can imagine how often even a mediocre player with some experience would just farm 1 salvo deletes on the enemy newbs that drive broadside in straight lines.

So what's a good way to play the things?  Drive in close so the secondaries get in the action and hope the guns are more accurate at half a klick?  I can't stand the thought of sniping at 12 km while my team's cruisers and DDs die because the BBs refused to share taking damage.

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The St. Louis appears to be widely recognised as one of the best tier 3 (cruisers) - it's not just you, mate :)

 

Re BBs: I'm currently at tier 8 in the BB lines, so the game play is different, and I've acquired better sit awareness. At these tiers you generally play at 10-13 km at first due to torp's and waiting for knowledge of hostile deployments. When you and the teams are deployed you can make the decision whether to fight a delaying action on your flank (when outnumbered) or support the DDs which should be providing vision and to some extend a torp screen. At low tiers this feels a lot more sketchy, so I think it's more situational. At lot of people are inexperienced and will play their ships in all kinds of ways...

Generally speaking leading a charge in a BB requires a decent bit of skill and especially in open ocean with limited means to disengage it's often not advisable to push too hard, before you feel confident that your team is pushing with you. Or to put it in other words: I often see people overextending or being too cautious, so I guess being able to consistently push correctly in BBs isn't a simple task - even if it sounds like it.

Try to work on moving at different speeds and not only full, stop and reverse. Taking some ground and then have your team push can work wonders for me. Especially at lower tiers teams are slower at responding to pushes and don't read chat, so you kind of have to throw your body in there by example and make sure to have a plan B ready, if they refuse to follow your lead. This has some similarities to leading pushes in tanks - if you push too far w/o support pushing up, you are left exposed in no mans land.

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5 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Is it just me or is the St. Louis a really good low tier ship?  A hell of a lot of guns, a knack for setting BBs on fire with HE, and what looks like a pretty serious armor belt in the middle for a cruiser at that tier.

I can't even tell, really, I don't have enough experience in WoWS, but it sure feels like a good one.

So what's a good way to play the things?  Drive in close so the secondaries get in the action and hope the guns are more accurate at half a klick?  I can't stand the thought of sniping at 12 km while my team's cruisers and DDs die because the BBs refused to share taking damage.

First, St Louis is a really good ship. It was flat out overpowered in alpha/beta. I assumed they nerfed it but dunno, havent really touched the tier much apart to farm in my Iwaki A.

Dont bother with the secondaries on low tier BBs, far too short range and far too innacurate/bad. You wont have the captain skills to make secondaries work until much later on. (You need advanced firing training basically), which means a 10 point captain or higher)

The best way to play them, i think, at least, the Kawachi since i havent played the others is to just drive in, fire at the biggest and best targets you have, if you hit you hit, if you miss you miss. Just hang out to tier 5 I guess. 

What line are you grinding? i've only done Japanese, the Myogi is good (and a lot faster) when fully upgraded, but is still innacurate because tier 4.

For BBs in general, you're the primary pushing force of your team. You are the tank and the main damage dealer. (Its not quite that simple but for the purposes of this it'll do) you need to be able to push in - but make sure you have support. An isolated BB is a dead BB, much more than a Cruiser or DD because you're slow and not very manouverable. 

When engaging, make sure you are front on or rear on. (But idealy front) Never expose your broadside (this is true for any ship anyway) sometimes its best to just pretend your rear turret(s) arent there and only use the front ones -some ships have to turn extremely side on to get shots with their rear turrets which makes you an easy prey for cits and isnt worth it. You WILL be punished heavily for going broadside in anything above tier 4.

When aiming, if I have a choice of multiple targets, I choose based on first, whos the biggest threat, and second, what I have the best shot on. So say im in my Yamato, and I have a choice of 3 targets: another enemy yamato, an Iowa, and an Atago. Now, the biggest threat is the Yamato because the other two are lower tier. However he is perfectly angled to me so I have a very poor shot on him, the Atago is no threat, but the Iowa is my second biggest threat, and he happens to be completely broadside to me. Im going to shoot the Iowa because, not only are watching huge 50K damage numbers from quad cits hilarous, but because even if im not damaging the Yamato now, getting rid of his support quickly will make him much easier to kill later on.

However if the Iowa was also angled perfectly I would go for the Yamato. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

First, St Louis is a really good ship. It was flat out overpowered in alpha/beta. I assumed they nerfed it but dunno, havent really touched the tier much apart to farm in my Iwaki A.

Dont bother with the secondaries on low tier BBs, far too short range and far too innacurate/bad. You wont have the captain skills to make secondaries work until much later on. (You need advanced firing training basically), which means a 10 point captain or higher)

The best way to play them, i think, at least, the Kawachi since i havent played the others is to just drive in, fire at the biggest and best targets you have, if you hit you hit, if you miss you miss. Just hang out to tier 5 I guess. 

What line are you grinding? i've only done Japanese, the Myogi is good (and a lot faster) when fully upgraded, but is still innacurate because tier 4.

For BBs in general, you're the primary pushing force of your team. You are the tank and the main damage dealer. (Its not quite that simple but for the purposes of this it'll do) you need to be able to push in - but make sure you have support. An isolated BB is a dead BB, much more than a Cruiser or DD because you're slow and not very manouverable. 

When engaging, make sure you are front on or rear on. (But idealy front) Never expose your broadside (this is true for any ship anyway) sometimes its best to just pretend your rear turret(s) arent there and only use the front ones -some ships have to turn extremely side on to get shots with their rear turrets which makes you an easy prey for cits and isnt worth it. You WILL be punished heavily for going broadside in anything above tier 4.

When aiming, if I have a choice of multiple targets, I choose based on first, whos the biggest threat, and second, what I have the best shot on. So say im in my Yamato, and I have a choice of 3 targets: another enemy yamato, an Iowa, and an Atago. Now, the biggest threat is the Yamato because the other two are lower tier. However he is perfectly angled to me so I have a very poor shot on him, the Atago is no threat, but the Iowa is my second biggest threat, and he happens to be completely broadside to me. Im going to shoot the Iowa because, not only are watching huge 50K damage numbers from quad cits hilarous, but because even if im not damaging the Yamato now, getting rid of his support quickly will make him much easier to kill later on.

However if the Iowa was also angled perfectly I would go for the Yamato. 

 

I tend to angle at about 45° or whatever is the minimum required to get the bow and stern guns on the same target, never a 90° angle.  Nose-on makes sense though - accept a 33% loss in firepower for drastic defensive gains.  Runs exactly counter to how they actually used BBs historically, but we all know what trying to apply real-world tactics gets you in tanks, so a ship game would be no different.

I have the American Tier 4 BB, the Tier 4 DD, and the German Tier 3; I have the Tier 4 researched but not purchased yet.  Japanese Tier 3 cruiser, gonna continue up that line and debating adding the Japanese BB line.  Also vaguely debating American carriers.

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So, just remember the US BBs are all 20kn top speed till tier 8, which is a huge turn off for me personally (I have the Texas and its a good ship but I cant stand how slow it is, I cant imagine going through 4 tiers of that shit) 

Also 45 degrees is better than broadside but still not perfect. You want to be more like 30 degrees.

Oh also Montana which is the tier 10 US BB gets frontal citadeled constantly. I have zero fear of those things at all and only consider them damage farms lol. NC and Iowa are good though. 

I think US DDs are considered the best, Gunboats with decent torps. Not sure on cruisers, they're all good in different ways. CVs, technically the Japanese are better, but im grinding up the japanese lime and even at tier 6 theres like 5 squadrens or something and its VERY difficult to multitask with them all, if you're not good at multitasking like that the american CVs are more friendly with less squadrens

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1 hour ago, Assassin7 said:

So, just remember the US BBs are all 20kn top speed till tier 8, which is a huge turn off for me personally (I have the Texas and its a good ship but I cant stand how slow it is, I cant imagine going through 4 tiers of that shit) 

Also 45 degrees is better than broadside but still not perfect. You want to be more like 30 degrees.

Oh also Montana which is the tier 10 US BB gets frontal citadeled constantly. I have zero fear of those things at all and only consider them damage farms lol. NC and Iowa are good though. 

I think US DDs are considered the best, Gunboats with decent torps. Not sure on cruisers, they're all good in different ways. CVs, technically the Japanese are better, but im grinding up the japanese lime and even at tier 6 theres like 5 squadrens or something and its VERY difficult to multitask with them all, if you're not good at multitasking like that the american CVs are more friendly with less squadrens

Then what's the supposed strength of the American BBs if they're that slow but also not especially accurate?  Good armor?

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2 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Then what's the supposed strength of the American BBs if they're that slow but also not especially accurate?  Good armor?

Dunno about low/mid tiers. At high tiers its AA. They are all massive AA ships. They're also fast at high tiers, dunno how accurate/innacurate they are

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4 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Then what's the supposed strength of the American BBs if they're that slow but also not especially accurate?  Good armor?

Very good stealth, excellent plunging fire, they really fuck up cruisers with it, getting magic citadels, great AA. Accuracy is pretty dam good, if you slot the acc mod.

North Carolina is a bow on monster that can bully anything, with accurate guns, sub 12km stealth and has the same long range AA as both the tier IX and X with only slightly less AA on mid and short (which matters alot less for any competent CV captain)

I personally stopped at the North Carolina (still have her) because the Montana just seemed boring (Grosser is a better 4*3 BB in my opinion) to me and I have the Missouri, which is just a better Iowa.

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The Montana is much harder to citadel now after the buff. With it's accuracy and fast reload it's a great CA killer. I also have the German tier ten BB and I enjoy the Montana more. Not saying that the Kurfurst is bad, I still like too play it but it's got a different play style and I like the Montana play style more.

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